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Post by kuatorises on Jul 23, 2019 14:48:22 GMT
I didn't dislike Jane as much as some other people disliked the character, but I was indifferent to her at best. Plus, you get the feeling Portman didn't really care about the movies at all; much like with Star Wars. For a good actor, she can really phone it in at times. Sif, what the fuck happened to her btw, or Valkyrie would have been a better choice.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 23, 2019 15:23:35 GMT
^ yeah, why not bring back Sif instead?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 0:33:22 GMT
I didn't dislike Jane as much as some other people disliked the character, but I was indifferent to her at best. Plus, you get the feeling Portman didn't really care about the movies at all; much like with Star Wars. For a good actor, she can really phone it in at times. Sif, what the fuck happened to her btw, or Valkyrie would have been a better choice. Things like this have made me turn my back on actors or actresses like Portman and Lawrence. JLaw just mailed in her performances as Mystique in the X-Men movies and refused to get the make up as much once she became a star. Maybe now that Portman is a bigger part of this film she'll give a shit? Fuck if I know.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 0:38:13 GMT
I suspect there's a few youtuber's that'll be making three or four videos a day for the next two years about why we need to boycott Marvel. God help Natalie Portman if she says anything that can be taken out of context in the next year or so. I would say most of these YouTubers take issue not so much with Portman coming back as Jane Foster but rather that it seems Marvel Studios really wants to go in the direction of more recent storylines from the comic books which have neither been too successful with fans or financially and are mostly written and illustrated by people who often slam anyone, not just trolls, who express critical thought on their work even if its well argued and constructive - As a long time reader I personally avoid any book that is written and or drawn by Tim Doyle, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Ta-Neshi Coates, Richard Pace, and especially by Mark Waid because of how politically and religiously divisive and disrespectful to consumers they are if they do not feel or think the same way they feel on certain topics. And that is not even talking about how some have tried to sabotage independent comic makers from releasing books like their own, like your Jawbreakes: Lost Souls or Cyberfrog. But...That's taking this discussion to a different area almost, so I'll bring it back to Portman - I can see it happening, and to be fair Portman has something of a history of making pretty questionable statements herself in the past albeit fairly rarely. I get that sense too. I suspect we'll see Miles Morales and the female Iron Man sooner than later. Iron Heart is her name I think??? How long until we get the other Ms Marvel as well?? I mostly only know these characters because of video games.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 24, 2019 5:03:01 GMT
I would say most of these YouTubers take issue not so much with Portman coming back as Jane Foster but rather that it seems Marvel Studios really wants to go in the direction of more recent storylines from the comic books which have neither been too successful with fans or financially and are mostly written and illustrated by people who often slam anyone, not just trolls, who express critical thought on their work even if its well argued and constructive - As a long time reader I personally avoid any book that is written and or drawn by Tim Doyle, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Ta-Neshi Coates, Richard Pace, and especially by Mark Waid because of how politically and religiously divisive and disrespectful to consumers they are if they do not feel or think the same way they feel on certain topics. And that is not even talking about how some have tried to sabotage independent comic makers from releasing books like their own, like your Jawbreakes: Lost Souls or Cyberfrog. But...That's taking this discussion to a different area almost, so I'll bring it back to Portman - I can see it happening, and to be fair Portman has something of a history of making pretty questionable statements herself in the past albeit fairly rarely. I get that sense too. I suspect we'll see Miles Morales and the female Iron Man sooner than later. Iron Heart is her name I think??? How long until we get the other Ms Marvel as well?? I mostly only know these characters because of video games. Miles may be a while, doubt they will adapt Iron Heart with Riri Williams(Thankfully) but will instead do it with Morgan when she's older(I think a cut scene from Endgame showed her older and wearing a Mark suit), Ms. Marvel(Kamala Kahn)? Never say never but I don't see that character working beyond a supporting capacity, she just isn't very interesting or engaging a hero.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 5:17:25 GMT
I get that sense too. I suspect we'll see Miles Morales and the female Iron Man sooner than later. Iron Heart is her name I think??? How long until we get the other Ms Marvel as well?? I mostly only know these characters because of video games. Miles may be a while, doubt they will adapt Iron Heart with Riri Williams(Thankfully) but will instead do it with Morgan when she's older(I think a cut scene from Endgame showed her older and wearing a Mark suit), Ms. Marvel(Kamala Kahn)? Never say never but I don't see that character working beyond a supporting capacity, she just isn't very interesting or engaging a hero. Do you think Morgan will be become Ironheart or will she take the mantle of Iron Man or Rescue? Morgan has no direct comic book equivalent and, I don't see any need for anyone else to become Iron Man.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 24, 2019 5:22:45 GMT
Miles may be a while, doubt they will adapt Iron Heart with Riri Williams(Thankfully) but will instead do it with Morgan when she's older(I think a cut scene from Endgame showed her older and wearing a Mark suit), Ms. Marvel(Kamala Kahn)? Never say never but I don't see that character working beyond a supporting capacity, she just isn't very interesting or engaging a hero. Do you think Morgan will be become Ironheart or will she take the mantle of Iron Man or Rescue? Morgan has no comic book equivalent and, I don't see any need for anyone else to become Iron Man. I can see them calling her something different, because calling her Iron Heart would upset the Twitter and Tumblr folk.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 24, 2019 5:27:43 GMT
Do you think Morgan will be become Ironheart or will she take the mantle of Iron Man or Rescue? Morgan has no comic book equivalent and, I don't see any need for anyone else to become Iron Man. I can see them calling her something different, because calling her Iron Heart would upset the Twitter and Tumblr folk. I don't see any point in that. It's just Iron Man light regardless of whether or not it's Riri, gender-bent Morgan or Pepper Potts in a suit of armor.
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Post by thenolan on Jul 24, 2019 10:38:06 GMT
MCU will need a heck of a script for Portman not to look bored as she does in many of her movies.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 24, 2019 20:57:46 GMT
It'll be interesting to see if she can act like she wants to be there this time. i d rather see Darcy/Kat WE KNOW!!!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 31, 2019 18:47:03 GMT
I suspect there's a few youtuber's that'll be making three or four videos a day for the next two years about why we need to boycott Marvel. God help Natalie Portman if she says anything that can be taken out of context in the next year or so. I would say most of these YouTubers take issue not so much with Portman coming back as Jane Foster but rather that it seems Marvel Studios really wants to go in the direction of more recent storylines from the comic books which have neither been too successful with fans or financially and are mostly written and illustrated by people who often slam anyone, not just trolls, who express critical thought on their work even if its well argued and constructive - As a long time reader I personally avoid any book that is written and or drawn by Tim Doyle, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Ta-Neshi Coates, Richard Pace, and especially by Mark Waid because of how politically and religiously divisive and disrespectful to consumers they are if they do not feel or think the same way they feel on certain topics. And that is not even talking about how some have tried to sabotage independent comic makers from releasing books like their own, like your Jawbreakes: Lost Souls or Cyberfrog. But...That's taking this discussion to a different area almost, so I'll bring it back to Portman - I can see it happening, and to be fair Portman has something of a history of making pretty questionable statements herself in the past albeit fairly rarely. I'd love to see the sales figures that back up this frequent assertion. I worked in a comic book store during the era when Kamala Khan's Ms. Marvel was introduced. Those books sold well. If I recall correctly, they sold so well that Marvel was eager to repeat the experiment, which is why they introduced female Thor in the first place. The Khan character's books frequently exceeded Marvel's sales projections (which granted were usually very conservative). I'm certainly not calling you a liar but, I often hear that sales were terrible on those books without much in the way of sourcing. The way I remember it from the retail perspective is that not only were the books selling reasonably well, but they were also attracting a new audience. Marvel was desperate to get new readers into the comic books as older readers were aging out and sales were slipping dramatically. I can attest to this personally. Jason Aaron's run on Thor, Unworthy Thor, and Mighty Thor were by all account successful critically and financially. Where I worked, we had a crop of regulars who insisted they would not buy Marvel books anymore if the diversity trend continued. This put pressure on my boss, and he joined a coalition of retailers who took their concerns to the distributors (who in turn pushed back on Marvel). Ironically, a lot of the older regulars had sub-lists that had shrunk more than 2/3 before the diversity trend even started. Many long-time big-two readers, suffering from "event fatigue," started switching to highly praised indies as their goto books. I'm not saying every diversity-themed book Marvel put out during that era was a hit. A lot of them bombed hard (A-Force, I'm looking at you), but, the entire experiment was far from a complete failure critically or financially.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 31, 2019 19:06:15 GMT
I would say most of these YouTubers take issue not so much with Portman coming back as Jane Foster but rather that it seems Marvel Studios really wants to go in the direction of more recent storylines from the comic books which have neither been too successful with fans or financially and are mostly written and illustrated by people who often slam anyone, not just trolls, who express critical thought on their work even if its well argued and constructive - As a long time reader I personally avoid any book that is written and or drawn by Tim Doyle, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Ta-Neshi Coates, Richard Pace, and especially by Mark Waid because of how politically and religiously divisive and disrespectful to consumers they are if they do not feel or think the same way they feel on certain topics. And that is not even talking about how some have tried to sabotage independent comic makers from releasing books like their own, like your Jawbreakes: Lost Souls or Cyberfrog. But...That's taking this discussion to a different area almost, so I'll bring it back to Portman - I can see it happening, and to be fair Portman has something of a history of making pretty questionable statements herself in the past albeit fairly rarely. I'd love to see the sales figures that back up this frequent assertion. I worked in a comic book store during the era when Kamala Khan's Ms. Marvel was introduced. Those books sold well. If I recall correctly, they sold so well that Marvel was eager to repeat the experiment, which is why they introduced female Thor in the first place. The Khan character's books frequently exceeded Marvel's sales projections (which granted were usually very conservative). I'm certainly not calling you a liar but, I often hear that sales were terrible on those books without much in the way of sourcing. The way I remember it from the retail perspective is that not only were the books selling reasonably well, but they were also attracting a new audience. Marvel was desperate to get new readers into the comic books as older readers were aging out and sales were slipping dramatically. I can attest to this personally. Jason Aaron's run on Thor, Unworthy Thor, and Mighty Thor were by all account successful critically and financially. Where I worked, we had a crop of regulars who insisted they would not buy Marvel books anymore if the diversity trend continued. This put pressure on my boss, and he joined a coalition of retailers who took their concerns to the distributors (who in turn pushed back on Marvel). Ironically, a lot of the older regulars had sub-lists that had shrunk more than 2/3 before the diversity trend even started. Many long-time big-two readers, suffering from "event fatigue," started switching to highly praised indies as their goto books. I'm not saying every diversity-themed book Marvel put out during that era was a hit. A lot of them bombed hard (A-Force, I'm looking at you), but, the entire experiment was far from a complete failure critically or financially. Some of the titles did start off strong but interest dropped later which led to lowering sales numbers and for some cancellations(Marvel has a whole had to drop close to half of their 100+ titles in the last few years in tally)and eventual rebrandings, I'd say the 'Marvel Comics is failing' stuff really came into view sometime in 2017 when insiders posted then recent sales statistics. Can't speak for everyone but at the store I regularly go to the newest Marvel titles tend to collect dust while manga, Image, Valiant, and Dark Horse sell more, and older reprints or omnibuses of classic storylines are purchased in heartbeats, I'd say the same goes for DC - huge selection of Doomsday Clock on one shelf collecting all issues of the run from start to current but barely touched. Regarding critical reception personally I tend to trust the average consumer more(Which is why in these types of discussions I focus more on profit) as many of these professional reviewers sometimes come across as biased as certain storylines seem to appeal to them on a political level and in some cases they were not really long time readers of Marvel and appreciators of the medium till more recently - so whatever issues long time readers have matter little to nothing.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 31, 2019 19:42:36 GMT
I'd love to see the sales figures that back up this frequent assertion. I worked in a comic book store during the era when Kamala Khan's Ms. Marvel was introduced. Those books sold well. If I recall correctly, they sold so well that Marvel was eager to repeat the experiment, which is why they introduced female Thor in the first place. The Khan character's books frequently exceeded Marvel's sales projections (which granted were usually very conservative). I'm certainly not calling you a liar but, I often hear that sales were terrible on those books without much in the way of sourcing. The way I remember it from the retail perspective is that not only were the books selling reasonably well, but they were also attracting a new audience. Marvel was desperate to get new readers into the comic books as older readers were aging out and sales were slipping dramatically. I can attest to this personally. Jason Aaron's run on Thor, Unworthy Thor, and Mighty Thor were by all account successful critically and financially. Where I worked, we had a crop of regulars who insisted they would not buy Marvel books anymore if the diversity trend continued. This put pressure on my boss, and he joined a coalition of retailers who took their concerns to the distributors (who in turn pushed back on Marvel). Ironically, a lot of the older regulars had sub-lists that had shrunk more than 2/3 before the diversity trend even started. Many long-time big-two readers, suffering from "event fatigue," started switching to highly praised indies as their goto books. I'm not saying every diversity-themed book Marvel put out during that era was a hit. A lot of them bombed hard (A-Force, I'm looking at you), but, the entire experiment was far from a complete failure critically or financially. Some of the titles did start off strong but interest dropped later which led to lowering sales numbers and for some cancellations(Marvel has a whole had to drop close to half of their 100+ titles in the last few years in tally)and eventual rebrandings, I'd say the 'Marvel Comics is failing' stuff really came into view sometime in 2017 when insiders posted then recent sales statistics. Can't speak for everyone but at the store I regularly go to the newest Marvel titles tend to collect dust while manga, Image, Valiant, and Dark Horse sell more, and older reprints or omnibuses of classic storylines are purchased in heartbeats, I'd say the same goes for DC - huge selection of Doomsday Clock on one shelf collecting all issues of the run from start to current but barely touched. Regarding critical reception personally I tend to trust the average consumer more(Which is why in these types of discussions I focus more on profit) as many of these professional reviewers sometimes come across as biased as certain storylines seem to appeal to them on a political level and in some cases they were not really long time readers of Marvel and appreciators of the medium till more recently - so whatever issues long time readers have matter little to nothing. Aren’t the best selling comics still the stuff from Marvel and DC?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 31, 2019 19:43:55 GMT
I'd love to see the sales figures that back up this frequent assertion. I worked in a comic book store during the era when Kamala Khan's Ms. Marvel was introduced. Those books sold well. If I recall correctly, they sold so well that Marvel was eager to repeat the experiment, which is why they introduced female Thor in the first place. The Khan character's books frequently exceeded Marvel's sales projections (which granted were usually very conservative). I'm certainly not calling you a liar but, I often hear that sales were terrible on those books without much in the way of sourcing. The way I remember it from the retail perspective is that not only were the books selling reasonably well, but they were also attracting a new audience. Marvel was desperate to get new readers into the comic books as older readers were aging out and sales were slipping dramatically. I can attest to this personally. Jason Aaron's run on Thor, Unworthy Thor, and Mighty Thor were by all account successful critically and financially. Where I worked, we had a crop of regulars who insisted they would not buy Marvel books anymore if the diversity trend continued. This put pressure on my boss, and he joined a coalition of retailers who took their concerns to the distributors (who in turn pushed back on Marvel). Ironically, a lot of the older regulars had sub-lists that had shrunk more than 2/3 before the diversity trend even started. Many long-time big-two readers, suffering from "event fatigue," started switching to highly praised indies as their goto books. I'm not saying every diversity-themed book Marvel put out during that era was a hit. A lot of them bombed hard (A-Force, I'm looking at you), but, the entire experiment was far from a complete failure critically or financially. Some of the titles did start off strong but interest dropped later which led to lowering sales numbers and for some cancellations(Marvel has a whole had to drop close to half of their 100+ titles in the last few years in tally)and eventual rebrandings, I'd say the 'Marvel Comics is failing' stuff really came into view sometime in 2017 when insiders posted then recent sales statistics. Can't speak for everyone but at the store I regularly go to the newest Marvel titles tend to collect dust while manga, Image, Valiant, and Dark Horse sell more, and older reprints or omnibuses of classic storylines are purchased in heartbeats, I'd say the same goes for DC - huge selection of Doomsday Clock on one shelf collecting all issues of the run from start to current but barely touched. Regarding critical reception personally I tend to trust the average consumer more(Which is why in these types of discussions I focus more on profit) as many of these professional reviewers sometimes come across as biased as certain storylines seem to appeal to them on a political level and in some cases they were not really long time readers of Marvel and appreciators of the medium till more recently - so whatever issues long time readers have matter little to nothing. A lot of the 2017 data from diamond didn't take trade sales for those issues into account (which in many cases far exceeded the floppy sales). Also, digital sales were all but overlooked entirely. Sales falling off after massive launches isn't a phenomenon that is unique to that era. Marvel surely did go overboard but, I think the overall story is far more nuanced than that. We were witnessing a confluence of events that shaped those sales figures. Consumer tastes and habits were changing. More people were keen to wait for trades or buy digital (and much like Netflix, ComiXology isn't transparent with their data). The comic-movie-craze did create a short term boom amongst casuals (but when adequately analyzed, their impact on sales was nominal to negligible). Long-time readers, despite posturing to the contrary, were no longer buying the books regardless of diversity or not. Many of the long-time readers at my store complained of storage challenges, carless children, and unsupportive spouses. They were actively looking to jettison their collections as opposed to adding to them. I can't tell you how many times veteran readers showed up at the store with 1000+ lots of books they were looking to ditch at heroin-addict prices.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 31, 2019 20:10:01 GMT
Some of the titles did start off strong but interest dropped later which led to lowering sales numbers and for some cancellations(Marvel has a whole had to drop close to half of their 100+ titles in the last few years in tally)and eventual rebrandings, I'd say the 'Marvel Comics is failing' stuff really came into view sometime in 2017 when insiders posted then recent sales statistics. Can't speak for everyone but at the store I regularly go to the newest Marvel titles tend to collect dust while manga, Image, Valiant, and Dark Horse sell more, and older reprints or omnibuses of classic storylines are purchased in heartbeats, I'd say the same goes for DC - huge selection of Doomsday Clock on one shelf collecting all issues of the run from start to current but barely touched. Regarding critical reception personally I tend to trust the average consumer more(Which is why in these types of discussions I focus more on profit) as many of these professional reviewers sometimes come across as biased as certain storylines seem to appeal to them on a political level and in some cases they were not really long time readers of Marvel and appreciators of the medium till more recently - so whatever issues long time readers have matter little to nothing. Aren’t the best selling comics still the stuff from Marvel and DC? Last I heard, Marvel, DC, and Image still have the biggest share of comic sales with Dark Horse Boom! Studios, Valiant and a few others all coming in as distant thirds. Comic book sales for Marvel - even at peak performance - are a loss leader. Film and merchandising profits far outstrip comic book sales. Comic book sales are more or less the food and beverage side of the Marvel empire. The sad thing is that Marvel doesn’t actually treat the comic book division accordingly and individual books are still priced at an unjustifiable premium. DC has made strides towards more reasonable pricing.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 31, 2019 20:27:10 GMT
Aren’t the best selling comics still the stuff from Marvel and DC? Last I heard, Marvel, DC, and Image still have the biggest share of comic sales with Dark Horse Boom! Studios, Valiant and a few others all coming in as distant thirds. Comic book sales for Marvel - even at peak performance - are a loss leader. Film and merchandising profits far outstrip comic book sales. Comic book sales are more or less the food and beverage side of the Marvel empire. The sad thing is that Marvel doesn’t actually treat the comic book division accordingly and individual books are still priced at an unjustifiable premium. DC has made strides towards more reasonable pricing. I think part of the problem with Marvel comics these days is that they keep trying to make them more like the MCU, instead of letting them stand as their own thing.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 31, 2019 20:53:06 GMT
Last I heard, Marvel, DC, and Image still have the biggest share of comic sales with Dark Horse Boom! Studios, Valiant and a few others all coming in as distant thirds. Comic book sales for Marvel - even at peak performance - are a loss leader. Film and merchandising profits far outstrip comic book sales. Comic book sales are more or less the food and beverage side of the Marvel empire. The sad thing is that Marvel doesn’t actually treat the comic book division accordingly and individual books are still priced at an unjustifiable premium. DC has made strides towards more reasonable pricing. I think part of the problem with Marvel comics these days is that they keep trying to make them more like the MCU, instead of letting them stand as their own thing. Interesting, can you cite a few examples? I buy Immortal Hulk, Powers of X, House of X, Black Panther, and Captain America. Most of those have little if any similarities with the movies. Occasionally, certain characters that have appeared in the films get played up, but that never lasts more than a few issues. Whenever, I've seen a Marvel book make a concerted effort to copy the movies, that usually signals a creative/editorial team that is angling to get involved in the films.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 31, 2019 21:20:16 GMT
I think part of the problem with Marvel comics these days is that they keep trying to make them more like the MCU, instead of letting them stand as their own thing. Interesting, can you cite a few examples? I buy Immortal Hulk, Powers of X, House of X, Black Panther, and Captain America. Most of those have little if any similarities with the movies. Occasionally, certain characters that have appeared in the films get played up, but that never lasts more than a few issues. Whenever, I've seen a Marvel book make a concerted effort to copy the movies, that usually signals a creative/editorial team that is angling to get involved in the films. I’m referring to things like Nick Fury Jr., Coulson becoming a comic character, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch not being Mutants anymore, and Tony Stark acting more like his MCU counterpart.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 31, 2019 21:41:04 GMT
Interesting, can you cite a few examples? I buy Immortal Hulk, Powers of X, House of X, Black Panther, and Captain America. Most of those have little if any similarities with the movies. Occasionally, certain characters that have appeared in the films get played up, but that never lasts more than a few issues. Whenever, I've seen a Marvel book make a concerted effort to copy the movies, that usually signals a creative/editorial team that is angling to get involved in the films. I’m referring to things like Nick Fury Jr., Coulson becoming a comic character, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch not being Mutants anymore, and Tony Stark acting more like his MCU counterpart. Those examples are mix or corporate mandates and bad storytelling choices. The rumor mill has been churning for years about Marvel creating a 199999 series of books to thwart unfocused cannabilization in either direction. It's not a bad idea.
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Post by thenolan on Aug 1, 2019 5:18:09 GMT
Portman can be a bland and stiff actress. If the script sucks, it shows in her acting. Personally she looks very wrong for the part. Too bad Rachel Mcadams is Dr Strange's girlfreind. She would be a better choice than Portman.
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