thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 8, 2019 14:47:31 GMT
As Dark Phoenix was a prequel set in the 80s, What Ending ends all?
I like Days Of Future Past better as a comic movie
I like Logan better as an art house film.
Two masterpieces in the X-Men series but one film can only rule them all?
What ending was best for this series?
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Post by James on Aug 8, 2019 15:28:05 GMT
For me it’s Logan. Not just a better film, but a more powerful ending.
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Post by politicidal on Aug 8, 2019 15:28:11 GMT
DOFP. I got to thinking of the possibilities for future movies.
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Post by dazz on Aug 10, 2019 18:08:32 GMT
Dark Phoenix was set in the 90's my man...that the whole shtick of those films, they take place in different decades, FC was 60's, DOFP was 70's, Apocalypse was 80's and DP was 90's.
Anyway my answer is Logan, DOFP is overrated as fuck, it fucked up a lot of the intrigue for me in sequels because of how it ended, and the ending itself doesn't make sense and if you think about it is kind of sad anyway but not in the intentional way Logan is.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 10, 2019 20:18:09 GMT
Logan.
Days of Future Past had too many loss ends.
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Post by Prime etc. on Aug 10, 2019 20:29:17 GMT
DOFP felt like Marvel meets Back to the Future but as I understand Logan is something of a remake of a recent Mel Gibson western film where he protects some kid and dies at the end so it is hardly original either.
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DarkManX
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@shadowrun
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Post by DarkManX on Aug 11, 2019 18:25:47 GMT
Logan. The DOFP ending with Mystique disguised as Stryker went absolutely nowhere.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Aug 12, 2019 16:54:46 GMT
Logan. The DOFP ending with Mystique disguised as Stryker went absolutely nowhere. Because it was never meant to go anywhere other than saving Logan from drowning and foreshadowing that Mystique would be a good guy.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 14, 2019 18:09:04 GMT
Logan. It actually felt like a real ending.
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Post by Archelaus on Aug 14, 2019 18:14:55 GMT
Definitely Logan.
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Post by hobowar on Aug 18, 2019 20:38:45 GMT
Days of Future Past made me feel happier although Logan is a better film.
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thenolan
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@thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 20, 2019 19:47:49 GMT
Logan. The DOFP ending with Mystique disguised as Stryker went absolutely nowhere. It was trying to escape a happy ending or not making time travel a compete solution.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 20, 2019 20:15:14 GMT
Logan. The DOFP ending with Mystique disguised as Stryker went absolutely nowhere. It was trying to escape a happy ending or not making time travel a compete solution.
Logan was the better film and had the better ending. DOFP is highly overrated and is full of missed opportunities.
Regarding DOFP's ending, Mystique's reveal was thrown in as a "shock ending" at the last minute by a compulsive director with no regards for continuity or foresight. It served no other purpose.
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thenolan
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@thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 20, 2019 20:29:37 GMT
It was trying to escape a happy ending or not making time travel a compete solution.
Logan was the better film and had the better ending. DOFP is highly overrated and is full of missed opportunities.
Regarding DOFP's ending, Mystique's reveal was thrown in as a "shock ending" at the last minute by a compulsive director with no regards for continuity or foresight. It served no other purpose.
How is DOFP overrated.Compared to which movie? I didn't even love DOFP as much as I did until I saw a worse execution of time travel with another marvel movie called Endgame, that missed more opportunities even for MCU usual immature standards.
Mystique's ending was not a shock ending, if you have watched many time travel movie or many twisted movies you would expect that type of ending. The director doesn't want to make it easy, especially when its time travel. There could still be consequences for violating nature like reserving time, that was the point of the ending. That is smarter to how simple and preditcbale Endgame used time travel.
You are right that DOFP messed up the continuity but as a stand alone movie that was supposed to be the ending to the prequels, it was a pure gold. Logan was a breathtaking send off to the main character of the series.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 20, 2019 20:43:15 GMT
Logan was the better film and had the better ending. DOFP is highly overrated and is full of missed opportunities.
Regarding DOFP's ending, Mystique's reveal was thrown in as a "shock ending" at the last minute by a compulsive director with no regards for continuity or foresight. It served no other purpose.
How is DOFP overrated.Compared to which movie? I didn't even love DOFP as much as I did until I saw a worse execution of time travel with another marvel movie called Endgame, that missed more opportunities even for MCU usual immature standards.
Mystique's ending was not a shock ending, if you have watched many time travel movie or many twisted movies you would expect that type of ending. The director doesn't want to make it easy, especially when its time travel. There could still be consequences for violating nature like reserving time, that was the point of the ending. That is smarter to how simple and preditcbale Endgame used time travel.
You are right that DOFP messed up the continuity but as a stand alone movie that was supposed to be the ending to the prequels, it was a pure gold. Logan was a breathtaking send off to the main character of the series. You can like whichever film you want (DOFP is fine, just overrated and too many missed opportunities in my opinion), but Singer himself was quoted as saying that the twist ending in DOFP was added late in the game when the film was nearing completion. He justified it's inclusion later, but really had no grand design when it was initially put in the film.
What does any of this have to do with Endgame or the MCU? Summers8? Is that you?
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Post by dazz on Aug 20, 2019 21:07:09 GMT
Logan was the better film and had the better ending. DOFP is highly overrated and is full of missed opportunities.
Regarding DOFP's ending, Mystique's reveal was thrown in as a "shock ending" at the last minute by a compulsive director with no regards for continuity or foresight. It served no other purpose.
How is DOFP overrated.Compared to which movie? I didn't even love DOFP as much as I did until I saw a worse execution of time travel with another marvel movie called Endgame, that missed more opportunities even for MCU usual immature standards.
Mystique's ending was not a shock ending, if you have watched many time travel movie or many twisted movies you would expect that type of ending. The director doesn't want to make it easy, especially when its time travel. There could still be consequences for violating nature like reserving time, that was the point of the ending. That is smarter to how simple and preditcbale Endgame used time travel.
You are right that DOFP messed up the continuity but as a stand alone movie that was supposed to be the ending to the prequels, it was a pure gold. Logan was a breathtaking send off to the main character of the series.
Actually as a stand alone movie it loses half it's value, see without the weight of the original X-Men trilogy without First Class most of the weighty scenes in DOFP have little to no meaning, Mystique's relationships with everyone is nothing without the 4 other films of backstory, the devestation of the Sentinel's means little to nothing without the connection to the original trilogy of movies, Stewart & McAvoy speaking doesn't hold 1/4 of the meaning of impact without the prior performances of both actors in the role previously, like Endgame & IW are mostly carried by the built up emotional cache from the prior films of the MCU so to does DOFP, if you look at it as an isolated film what makes it "great" is lost, it makes up for some of the faults of the movie sure, but it turns good into ok, where as the past movies connections and the lack of continuity or sense of this film due to that turn a great film into a good film.
Also the Mystique as Striker thing was half baked, made obvious by the fact they didn't know what to do with that and ignore it in the very next movie, they didn't even write in a scene in Apocalypse of Mystique recognising it was Logan on a rampage suggesting some history we never saw that's inconsequential to the actual plot of the film, but atleast that doesn't make the Mystique reveal in DOFP a completely wasted moment.
DOFP did use the time travel makes it all better, but it does so stupidly also, stopping the Sentinels that did nothing between DOFP and The Wolverine somehow prevented Jean going psychotic and killing Cyclops, fair enough Mystique becoming a mutant icon and ushering a new sense of acceptance could have stifled the idea of a cure preventing Rogue from giving up her powers, but DOFP's ending is just stupid as Logan would return to the same time period consciousness left, as in he'd be in the future, atleast a decade on from where we last saw the X-Men, yet the movie ends with it being like it's 6 months on from The Last Stand at worst, no one moved on everyone was static from that point on, it's hilariously stupid and sad to a degree.
DOFP often gets lauded as a great film, it isn't it's a good film, hence it is overrated, it also did nothing new, it did nothing inventive, it did nothing spectacular other than having 5 tremendous performers 2 of which were in reduced roles with Jackman, McAvoy, Fassbender, Stewart & McKellan they carry much of the movie, Dinkleage wasn't bad but he wasn't great either imo, just wasn't given enough to do maybe, the performances carry the film, the actual film is generic and half baked.
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thenolan
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@thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 20, 2019 21:31:28 GMT
How is DOFP overrated.Compared to which movie? I didn't even love DOFP as much as I did until I saw a worse execution of time travel with another marvel movie called Endgame, that missed more opportunities even for MCU usual immature standards.
Mystique's ending was not a shock ending, if you have watched many time travel movie or many twisted movies you would expect that type of ending. The director doesn't want to make it easy, especially when its time travel. There could still be consequences for violating nature like reserving time, that was the point of the ending. That is smarter to how simple and preditcbale Endgame used time travel.
You are right that DOFP messed up the continuity but as a stand alone movie that was supposed to be the ending to the prequels, it was a pure gold. Logan was a breathtaking send off to the main character of the series. You can like whichever film you want (DOFP is fine, just overrated and too many missed opportunities in my opinion), but Singer himself was quoted as saying that the twist ending in DOFP was added late in the game when the film was nearing completion. He justified it's inclusion later, but really had no grand design when it was initially put in the film.
What does any of this have to do with Endgame or the MCU? Summers8? Is that you?
I don't even know who summers8 but I am dying to find out. Endgame and DOFP are too alike and they are marvel movies. Let me guess, you love MCU movies and can't tolerate a movie that did the same concept better. If DOFP is overrated what is Endgame and other poorly drawn out time travel films to it?
Frankly I could care less what Singer said, maybe it was a happy accident but it worked as a more interesting time travel movie. The shock ending as you call it can be found in another movie masterminded by one of my favorite directors. Inception by Chris Nolan. I was in the wrong. I should never had compared DOFP or Inception to an immature simplistic written MCU movie. This was about Logan and DOFP, it almost symbolic as this is where X-Men really ends.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 20, 2019 21:50:18 GMT
You can like whichever film you want (DOFP is fine, just overrated and too many missed opportunities in my opinion), but Singer himself was quoted as saying that the twist ending in DOFP was added late in the game when the film was nearing completion. He justified it's inclusion later, but really had no grand design when it was initially put in the film.
What does any of this have to do with Endgame or the MCU? Summers8? Is that you?
I don't even know who summers8 but I am dying to find out. Endgame and DOFP are too alike and they are marvel movies. Let me guess, you love MCU movies and can't tolerate a movie that did the same concept better. If DOFP is overrated what is Endgame and other poorly drawn out time travel films to it?
Frankly I could care less what Singer said, maybe it was a happy accident but it worked as a more interesting time travel movie. The shock ending as you call it can be found in another movie masterminded by one of my favorite directors. Inception by Chris Nolan. I was in the wrong. I should never had compared DOFP or Inception to an immature simplistic written MCU movie. This was about Logan and DOFP, it almost symbolic as this is where X-Men really ends. Your insistent need to compare the Fox-Men films to the MCU in a thread that has nothing to do with it, your recent posts stating that the MCU is immature and for kids, your fawning over Nolan, along with your seemingly inability to understand the concept of opinions leads me to believe you are who you say you aren't, even if you are trying to disguise it. If I'm wrong, then I apologize. But the similarities are there for everyone to see.
This is a thread about which movie serves as the better ending between Logan and DOFP. I'm not comparing either of these films to the MCU at all. If you need something to compare with DOFP, I'd say the comics or the animated series, both of which the film fails to live up to. Either way, it's just an opinion. No need to take it as a personal attack. Either stay on topic or start a new thread if you need to vent your frustrations about the MCU.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Aug 20, 2019 22:24:41 GMT
How is DOFP overrated.Compared to which movie? I didn't even love DOFP as much as I did until I saw a worse execution of time travel with another marvel movie called Endgame, that missed more opportunities even for MCU usual immature standards.
Mystique's ending was not a shock ending, if you have watched many time travel movie or many twisted movies you would expect that type of ending. The director doesn't want to make it easy, especially when its time travel. There could still be consequences for violating nature like reserving time, that was the point of the ending. That is smarter to how simple and preditcbale Endgame used time travel.
You are right that DOFP messed up the continuity but as a stand alone movie that was supposed to be the ending to the prequels, it was a pure gold. Logan was a breathtaking send off to the main character of the series.
Actually as a stand alone movie it loses half it's value, see without the weight of the original X-Men trilogy without First Class most of the weighty scenes in DOFP have little to no meaning, Mystique's relationships with everyone is nothing without the 4 other films of backstory, the devestation of the Sentinel's means little to nothing without the connection to the original trilogy of movies, Stewart & McAvoy speaking doesn't hold 1/4 of the meaning of impact without the prior performances of both actors in the role previously, like Endgame & IW are mostly carried by the built up emotional cache from the prior films of the MCU so to does DOFP, if you look at it as an isolated film what makes it "great" is lost, it makes up for some of the faults of the movie sure, but it turns good into ok, where as the past movies connections and the lack of continuity or sense of this film due to that turn a great film into a good film.
Also the Mystique as Striker thing was half baked, made obvious by the fact they didn't know what to do with that and ignore it in the very next movie, they didn't even write in a scene in Apocalypse of Mystique recognising it was Logan on a rampage suggesting some history we never saw that's inconsequential to the actual plot of the film, but atleast that doesn't make the Mystique reveal in DOFP a completely wasted moment.
This is from obvious fans of MCU who are not dealing well with Endgame's messed up time travel story and the fall out from Fat Thor. First Class and DOFP go hand in hand, both would have lost its value without the other. DOFP was the movie that was supposed to be the last film, to tie up everything together. They are not to be separated as it looses its value.
The part of Stewart and Mcavoy speaking was sadly among the best parts in DOFP. I remember something almost similar to Endgame when Thor speaks to his mum, the only problem is, the Thor scene is downgraded because Thor's character has been destroyed by making him a full on joke, so it lacks the emotional gravity as Xavier , who was taken more seriously as a character living with trauma to Thor. The other characters meeting their past or future self or parents was actually more about having fun with their time travel heist not about real realistic adult issues of pain and regret like Xavier in DOFP meeting Xavier.
Infinity War does not have any real deep story focus for any character. The last we see of Xavier in first class was a paralyzed broken man, who started the film very differently, I can't remember much in infinity war since it was a full on action packed movie with little story or character development for anyone, The direct emotional weight is less from Infinity war to endgame to First Class to DOFP as one is very story absent.
DOFP was the next movie after X3 and Wolverine I already said DOFP works as a movie if you treat it as it should, one of the two endings of the series that started in X-Men 1. Its only stupid if I was to look at it from your wronged view. This didn't occur in the movie. The movie ends in what was supposed to be a brand new timeline where everyone is supposedly spared until we travel back to the past with the ''shock ending'', usually a good plot device for good time travel movies as good time travel stories are not supposed to be a 100% sure easy fixer. One of my biggest grip with Endgame, Even for a Marvel kids movie. Wasn't that all too easy?
Something new is hard, the movie was following the approach X-Men 1 took, in comparison to the present superhero movies of Endgame , Captain marvel, Dark Phoenix and Far from home, it is not overrated but a step above those constant badly done mcu movies that gets worse with every writing.
DOFP is regarded as a great film as it is one. The story mostly checks and the film's style shines. DOFP is what you also call a dressing down of the generic cliches of superhero movies. The superhero expected elements were an after thought, You can call DOFP a Vietnam post war civil right statement movie and it could work in that concept, that aspect of the movie works better than the obvious superhero aspects. I wish the superhero movies of 2019 did more dressing downs. I hope superhero movies can redeem itself when The Joker is out in October.
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Post by dazz on Aug 20, 2019 23:20:03 GMT
Actually as a stand alone movie it loses half it's value, see without the weight of the original X-Men trilogy without First Class most of the weighty scenes in DOFP have little to no meaning, Mystique's relationships with everyone is nothing without the 4 other films of backstory, the devestation of the Sentinel's means little to nothing without the connection to the original trilogy of movies, Stewart & McAvoy speaking doesn't hold 1/4 of the meaning of impact without the prior performances of both actors in the role previously, like Endgame & IW are mostly carried by the built up emotional cache from the prior films of the MCU so to does DOFP, if you look at it as an isolated film what makes it "great" is lost, it makes up for some of the faults of the movie sure, but it turns good into ok, where as the past movies connections and the lack of continuity or sense of this film due to that turn a great film into a good film.
Also the Mystique as Striker thing was half baked, made obvious by the fact they didn't know what to do with that and ignore it in the very next movie, they didn't even write in a scene in Apocalypse of Mystique recognising it was Logan on a rampage suggesting some history we never saw that's inconsequential to the actual plot of the film, but atleast that doesn't make the Mystique reveal in DOFP a completely wasted moment.
This is from obvious fans of MCU who are not dealing well with Endgame's messed up time travel story and the fall out from Fat Thor. First Class and DOFP go hand in hand, both would have lost its value without the other. DOFP was the movie that was supposed to be the last film, to tie up everything together. They are not to be separated as it looses its value.
The part of Stewart and Mcavoy speaking was sadly among the best parts in DOFP. I remember something almost similar to Endgame when Thor speaks to his mum, the only problem is, the Thor scene is downgraded because Thor's character has been destroyed by making him a full on joke, so it lacks the emotional gravity as Xavier , who was taken more seriously as a character living with trauma to Thor. The other characters meeting their past or future self or parents was actually more about having fun with their time travel heist not about real realistic adult issues of pain and regret like Xavier in DOFP meeting Xavier.
Infinity War does not have any real deep story focus for any character. The last we see of Xavier in first class was a paralyzed broken man, who started the film very differently, I can't remember much in infinity war since it was a full on action packed movie with little story or character development for anyone, The direct emotional weight is less from Infinity war to endgame to First Class to DOFP as one is very story absent.
DOFP was the next movie after X3 and Wolverine I already said DOFP works as a movie if you treat it as it should, one of the two endings of the series that started in X-Men 1. Its only stupid if I was to look at it from your wronged view. This didn't occur in the movie. The movie ends in what was supposed to be a brand new timeline where everyone is supposedly spared until we travel back to the past with the ''shock ending'', usually a good plot device for good time travel movies as good time travel stories are not supposed to be a 100% sure easy fixer. One of my biggest grip with Endgame, Even for a Marvel kids movie. Wasn't that all too easy?
Something new is hard, the movie was following the approach X-Men 1 took, in comparison to the present superhero movies of Endgame , Captain marvel, Dark Phoenix and Far from home, it is not overrated but a step above those constant badly done mcu movies that gets worse with every writing.
DOFP is regarded as a great film as it is one. The story mostly checks and the film's style shines. DOFP is what you also call a dressing down of the generic cliches of superhero movies. The superhero expected elements were an after thought, You can call DOFP a Vietnam post war civil right statement movie and it could work in that concept, that aspect of the movie works better than the obvious superhero aspects. I wish the superhero movies of 2019 did more dressing downs. I hope superhero movies can redeem itself when The Joker is out in October.
I am actually a fan of all cbm's, I see faults in all the major franchises, which I am happy to point out, but I try not to make sweeping generalisation except in jest at them, imo Fat Thor isn't bad as an idea, in exectution though it is fun and enjoyable it does lose a lot of merit due to the comedy appeal, same flaw I find with Ragnarok, Thor is IW played it great he was funny but could be serious also, had Endgame not had Thor be silly during the Dark World scenes I don't think him being fat would have been an issue, it's that Thor went back to his home when his mother, father, brother & friends were still alive and his only concern was initially to steal booze, that hurts those scenes, but a depressed and out of shape Thor speaking to his mother who reinvigorates spirits and gives him the spark to keep fighting works, would also have worked if he wasn't fat but him just being fat doesn't fuck anything up it's how his character behaved a scene earlier that does imo.
But McAvoy talking with Stewart does work on it's own as a scene, but the omg and weight of that scene, the importance stems mostly from the emotional connect we have for both performers in that role, taken as a scene in an isolated movie that scene is great, but with the backstory and meaning to it that scene becomes incredible an omg holy shit YES DAMMIT YES!! moment in the movie and franchise, remove the history remove the greater weight of it.
See you are a double talking half witted hypocrite, you are trying to shift the goal post, look at it on it's own, but take all the meaning and merit of the previous films to add to it, dispose of all the nonsense, the inconsistencies, and whatever you do don't count the future instalments which work to breaking the importance even more...no you either take it all or take none of it, taken it all and the film is a good movie that could have been great if it wasn't for stupid inconsistencies, forcing a character into a vital role they shouldn't be in due to star power and not having a clue to correctly end the film to get the true happily ever after, take none of it and it's a film that the inconsistencies go away because isolated it isn't contradicting those things, the ending works, but the weight of everything through the movie is lost, Logan freaking when he see's Striker for the first time makes no real sense, Magneto & Xavier's friendship isn't as meaningful, the relationship between Mystique and Magneto or Xavier are hollow, Mystique being the key to the sentinels works because we don't know how limited her powers truly are, but the happy ever after ending doesn't mean anything as who are these people and why do we care? the deaths of Storm, Magneto, Iceman even Colossus don't matter any more than Blink, Bishop or Sunwhatever as we don't really know who the fuck these character are to have an emotional connection to them.
First Class stands on it's own, that's the thing it doesn't need any of the other films, and FC & DOFP do NOT go hand in hand, everything in FC is meaningless due to DOFP, all the mutants we meet in FC die except Xavier, Beast, Magneto, Mystique & Havoc who doesn't actually matter to the series past FC, Magneto and Xavier don't do shit after FC until DOFP, Magneto is captured within a year and Xavier closes the school due to Vietnam, so everything they accomplish, everything they lose and everything they tried in FC does not matter, DOFP waters down FC to being a movie that does not matter except to establish the friendship between Xavier & Magneto, which isn't needed because McAvoy & Fassbender have insane chemistry together that they don't need it, it helps but it isn't quite NEEDED.
Logan also gets a boost from the past movies giving more weight to the performances and friendship between Jackman & Stewart as Logan & Xavier, but on it's own like Fassbander & McAvoy their chemistry is so good it quickly becomes established to where the other films are not required watching to get their bond, but because specific deaths of X-Men are used to build emotion and visual awe you don't need to have seen the other films to get the weight of the loss, the actors sell it themselves, Logan can live as a great movie without the need of any other film, DOFP cannot it needs the baggage and history to make it special, Logan lives by the performances and a great script which means you don't need the excess weight of the franchise to bolster it, DOFP has some great performances that do anchor to movie but it also has Lawrence half arsing it as per usual, it has Holt doing good but not great, it has most of the future scenes which aren't great except for McAvoy & Fassbender as limited as they are, Dinklage is good but again not great due to not having enough to do imo, sure it has the excellent Quicksilver stuff but that's a few minutes and not enough to build the film on, Logan also ends in an impactful and emotional way, you can watch Logan without seeing anything else and say fuck me that's a great movie, without seeing any other X-Men film you don't get that, you barely get that if you have because the story then doesn't work properly.
DOFP's ending isn't meant to be picking up from where Last Stand took off, it's meant to be Logan is returned to the body of the Logan from the same point in time as the Logan of that timeline, but we know from The Wolverine & DOFP their bleak future is years past the end of The Last Stand, but that's how that ending reads, everyone is in an idealistic place for where they could be from the potential of The Last Stand, which means if it is in the future as it's meant to be no ones life moved on in years, it also makes no sense how stopping the Sentinels stopped Jean from imploding and having her Phoenix breakdown from The Last Stand, I mean shit Mystique isn't even present which could have been a possibility for how the past of DOFP ended.
DOFP is a great idea ultimately handled quite sloppily, Logan is a great idea handled greatly, even as ending to the series DOFP ends with a cheap and hollow happy ever after for the Original trilogy, Logan however ends with a great ending of finality to the series we had been watching for 17 years, sad and heart breaking but with hope and yet a feeling of completion.
But you keep being a fucking idiot and bitching about the MCU, I'm sure you'll one day convince the world that the MCU is the devil or whatever other feeble bullshit you want to spout.
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