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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 24, 2019 12:15:18 GMT
It was a perfect ending. It showed us that: Mystique had become a mutant heroine, ready to save the mutant kind. Also, it showed us that Logan was going to live 10 years far from Stryker and free (1973-1983). I don't get what you mean by the 2nd part, also I would argue it didn't show us anything, it implied, it implied Raven would continue to help protect mutants even Logan who 15 minutes earlier was her enemy, and implied Logan may have lived a life free from the imprisonment and damage caused by Striker, but it didn't show us anything, because you can also equally say that it implies Raven had simply changed tactics, Logan would still be caught just this time by Raven and used by her instead.
That part of the ending though is fine if left ambiguous by that being the last film of the series before a full reboot, it's the happy ever after ending that is lame imo, and the follow up to Raven saving Logan in the sequels which makes that ending lame also by looking back at it.
Problem is it clearly wasn't meant to be left ambiguous because they planned on a sequel ith the apocalypse tease, which means it was dumb to have something like that left in unless you were sure you knew how you were going to connect to it in the next movie.
Before that VERY moment, Raven had ZERO interest in Logan. He was her enemy, in truth. By saving him from Stryker, it showed us (viewers) that Raven has recovered her own soul and now she's willing to save mutant kind without damaging humans. It was a set-up for the beginning of "Apocalypse" and her renowned status as nationwide mutan (super)heroine. Plus, the real ending of DOFP is the final reunion of Wolverine and the X-Men in 2023. Said that, showing us that Logan is saved by Mystique (from Stryker's hands) is a "temporary" hint that "everything can change" and it's a new timeline - despite we know that time is a river and some events are set to happen no matter what (the "Weapon X" program in 1983). Brilliant writing, brilliant execution. DOFP is perfect.
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Post by dazz on Aug 24, 2019 12:34:04 GMT
I don't get what you mean by the 2nd part, also I would argue it didn't show us anything, it implied, it implied Raven would continue to help protect mutants even Logan who 15 minutes earlier was her enemy, and implied Logan may have lived a life free from the imprisonment and damage caused by Striker, but it didn't show us anything, because you can also equally say that it implies Raven had simply changed tactics, Logan would still be caught just this time by Raven and used by her instead.
That part of the ending though is fine if left ambiguous by that being the last film of the series before a full reboot, it's the happy ever after ending that is lame imo, and the follow up to Raven saving Logan in the sequels which makes that ending lame also by looking back at it.
Problem is it clearly wasn't meant to be left ambiguous because they planned on a sequel ith the apocalypse tease, which means it was dumb to have something like that left in unless you were sure you knew how you were going to connect to it in the next movie.
Before that VERY moment, Raven had ZERO interest in Logan. He was her enemy, in truth. By saving him from Stryker, it showed us (viewers) that Raven has recovered her own soul and now she's willing to save mutant kind without damaging humans. It was a set-up for the beginning of "Apocalypse" and her renowned status as nationwide mutan (super)heroine. Plus, the real ending of DOFP is the final reunion of Wolverine and the X-Men in 2023. Said that, showing us that Logan is saved by Mystique (from Stryker's hands) is a "temporary" hint that "everything can change" and it's a new timeline - despite we know that time is a river and some events are set to happen no matter what (the "Weapon X" program in 1983). Brilliant writing, brilliant execution. DOFP is perfect. The 2023 ending is dogshit and stupid imo, oh look re stopped the sentinels now Jeans deep psychological issues stemming from her immense powers is no longer an issue tralala, also that it's 2023 but everything is looks like it's 6 months removed from The Last Stand is dumb imo.
And again they didn't show us anything, it's one implication that you are talking about, also doesn't imply a change of heart as this is what Mystique did at the start of the movie also, but you can take a much darker implication of her actions quite easily, and it's not perfect writing when it's a late in the day choice they don't bother to follow up on, all they did is CGI the eyes right? meaning they could have filmed that with the intention it really was Striker and then just went nah fuck it make it Raven in editing.
I say if they wanted to hint more to Raven's better nature they could have had someone like Toad or Pyro be at the school in the 2023 scenes, showing that whatever has changed put some past villains onto the heroes path instead.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 24, 2019 12:38:20 GMT
Naaah the 2023 ending was brilliant. One of the best endings ever. The reunion was fantastic. You also finds out that Phoenix came back to Earth years after the events of "Dark Phoenix" (1992). You can also see that Jean is still tormented and very thoughtful in the reunion sequence. It was fantastic. But hey, haters are gonna hate, no matter what. I can see and find 300 flaws in the "Endgame" ending...
DOFP is universally acclaimed as a masterpiece of the superhero genre, and that's truly a masterpiece, so we're talking about air here.
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Post by dazz on Aug 24, 2019 13:23:42 GMT
Naaah the 2023 ending was brilliant. One of the best endings ever. The reunion was fantastic. You also finds out that Phoenix came back to Earth years after the events of "Dark Phoenix" (1992). You can also see that Jean is still tormented and very thoughtful in the reunion sequence. It was fantastic. But hey, haters are gonna hate, no matter what. I can see and find 300 flaws in the "Endgame" ending... DOFP is universally acclaimed as a masterpiece of the superhero genre, and that's truly a masterpiece, so we're talking about air here. Not even close man, it's great for this one movie that I grant you, or as part of a double or triple feature with The Wolverine & First Class where how/why Jean died I don't think is specifically known, just that she did infact die and by Logan's hands iirc, but when you have to factor in the events of TLS it's daft that somehow Trask's fate alters Jean's when everything that causes Jean to go the way she did in TLS is unaffected by DOFP, as Jean was already born and so her powers should have manifested the same way if the "Phoenix" was connected to her powers, Trask has nothing to do with that.
But as an end to a three movie series going either Wolverine then First Class or vice versa then DOFP then yes I grant you that's a fucking great ending.
Though you are reaching as fuck with saying you can see this in Jean, no you cant she's perfectly normal, at best she looks concerned over Logan's weirdness but you and I mean you yourself are imprinting your own narrative onto the performance and quite a bit so imo.
And yeah Endgame has flaws too, I still don't know why that's being brought up in a DOFP Vs. Logan discussion thread tho.
I do like how Logan realises Jean is there before he see's her though.
Where do you get the Phoenix came back after 92 bit from tho? Jean had the Phoenix in her when she meets Xavier in TLS when she was a teenager in the 80's how does not killing Trask cause the fucking Phoenix to come to earth years later?
But the thing is this is meant to be about which works better as an ending to the X-Men series, because of the nonsense of the entire series and things not lining up, and no I do not want to hear about how you have "figured" it out, I don't care about your 2nd time traveller theory right now, I think Logan works better as an ending to the series, also because it doesn't explicitly tease a sequel like DOFP did, they left it open enough to try and make one but they didn't actually call out making a sequel, that and I think the tragic but hopeful ending fits the X-Men better rather than the everything is puppies and rainbows ending of DOFP.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 24, 2019 20:09:38 GMT
The vast majority of people don't agree with you. That's life, man.
And I don't agree with you.
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 5:27:27 GMT
The vast majority of people don't agree with you. That's life, man. And I don't agree with you. The life of a MCU fanboy that goes up in flames when we point out a good time travel movie and ask why MCU could not do it as that.
I prefer X2 to DOFP but when I watched Endgame, I appericted DOFP more. Maybe I will finally watch the rogue cut.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 26, 2019 15:24:48 GMT
The vast majority of people don't agree with you. That's life, man. And I don't agree with you. The life of a MCU fanboy that goes up in flames when we point out a good time travel movie and ask why MCU could not do it as that.
I prefer X2 to DOFP but when I watched Endgame, I appericted DOFP more. Maybe I will finally watch the rogue cut. Why did you create a new account summers? You weren't banned. Did you forget your password?
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
Likes: 162
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Post by thenolan on Aug 26, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
The life of a MCU fanboy that goes up in flames when we point out a good time travel movie and ask why MCU could not do it as that.
I prefer X2 to DOFP but when I watched Endgame, I appericted DOFP more. Maybe I will finally watch the rogue cut. Why did you create a new account summers? You weren't banned. Did you forget your password? I thought I was DCFan not Summers8? The name calling here is more boring than most MCU movies. It's like their fans are as empty as their movies.
How long do I have to wait for a good well written adult oriented time travel MCU movie? I have gotten it from X-men and DC. I need one from the MCU.
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Post by bud47 on Aug 26, 2019 18:51:06 GMT
Why did you create a new account summers? You weren't banned. Did you forget your password? I thought I was DCFan not Summers8? The name calling here is more boring than most MCU movies. It's like their fans are as empty as their movies.
How long do I have to wait for a good well written adult oriented time travel MCU movie? I have gotten it from X-men and DC. I need one from the MCU.
It doesn't really matter which one you are. A troll is a troll.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 27, 2019 8:32:34 GMT
I thought I was DCFan not Summers8? The name calling here is more boring than most MCU movies. It's like their fans are as empty as their movies.
How long do I have to wait for a good well written adult oriented time travel MCU movie? I have gotten it from X-men and DC. I need one from the MCU.
It doesn't really matter which one you are. A troll is a troll.
Agreed.
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Post by dazz on Aug 27, 2019 15:18:25 GMT
The vast majority of people don't agree with you. That's life, man. And I don't agree with you. The life of a MCU fanboy that goes up in flames when we point out a good time travel movie and ask why MCU could not do it as that.
I prefer X2 to DOFP but when I watched Endgame, I appericted DOFP more. Maybe I will finally watch the rogue cut. Strange how this was meant to be which is a better bookend for the X-Men series, but you being unable to actually argue your side reverted into straw manning every argument into mcu fanboy this and that.
Take a look I haven't argued how Endgame is a superior time travel movie to DOFP because that is an utterly irrelevant argument in this discussion, as is Supperhero's other people don't agree "argument".
Funny how that is apparently a valid argument to defend X-Men, but when someone uses it to argue in favour of the MCU it's not...double standard much?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 28, 2019 16:05:40 GMT
Logan an art house film? Sorry but you need to see much more of those before you make such a comparison.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 29, 2019 18:41:09 GMT
The life of a MCU fanboy that goes up in flames when we point out a good time travel movie and ask why MCU could not do it as that.
I prefer X2 to DOFP but when I watched Endgame, I appericted DOFP more. Maybe I will finally watch the rogue cut. Take a look I haven't argued how Endgame is a superior time travel movie to DOFP because that is an utterly irrelevant argument in this discussion, as is Supperhero's other people don't agree "argument".
Endgame is not about paradoxes. It's about creating branches. It's time travel, yes, but it's not time travel. So it's not a "superior" time travel movie, it's an "unusual" time travel movie where time travel is just a gimmick to explore branch dimensions. ANYWAY, time travel is not the focal point of these movies. DOFP is a sci-fi movie set in 1973, with an open window to a post-apocalyptic era.
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Post by dazz on Aug 29, 2019 19:46:39 GMT
Take a look I haven't argued how Endgame is a superior time travel movie to DOFP because that is an utterly irrelevant argument in this discussion, as is Supperhero's other people don't agree "argument".
Endgame is not about paradoxes. It's about creating branches. It's time travel, yes, but it's not time travel. So it's not a "superior" time travel movie, it's an "unusual" time travel movie where time travel is just a gimmick to explore branch dimensions. ANYWAY, time travel is not the focal point of these movies. DOFP is a sci-fi movie set in 1973, with an open window to a post-apocalyptic era. Still has nothing to do with a DOFP Vs. Logan debate, which is my fucking point, what the FUCK does an MCU movie have to do with a comparing these two FoX-Men films?
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 29, 2019 19:56:19 GMT
Endgame is not about paradoxes. It's about creating branches. It's time travel, yes, but it's not time travel. So it's not a "superior" time travel movie, it's an "unusual" time travel movie where time travel is just a gimmick to explore branch dimensions. ANYWAY, time travel is not the focal point of these movies. DOFP is a sci-fi movie set in 1973, with an open window to a post-apocalyptic era. Still has nothing to do with a DOFP Vs. Logan debate, which is my fucking point, what the FUCK does an MCU movie have to do with a comparing these two FoX-Men films?
Calm down, buddy. What's happening? You're too hot-headed. "Logan" is the perfect ending for the original trilogy. DOFP is the definitive ending of the third timeline of the X-Men main universe. Both are terrific endings.
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Post by dazz on Aug 29, 2019 21:36:16 GMT
Still has nothing to do with a DOFP Vs. Logan debate, which is my fucking point, what the FUCK does an MCU movie have to do with a comparing these two FoX-Men films?
Calm down, buddy. What's happening? You're too hot-headed. "Logan" is the perfect ending for the original trilogy. DOFP is the definitive ending of the third timeline of the X-Men main universe. Both are terrific endings.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 29, 2019 23:22:47 GMT
Oh man. You're on the verge of some major self-destruction. Save yourself and just enjoy the greatness of the X-Men movies.
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Post by dazz on Aug 30, 2019 14:46:09 GMT
Oh man. You're on the verge of some major self-destruction. Save yourself and just enjoy the greatness of the X-Men movies. Fuck salvation, that shit is boring, damnation on the other hand is a hell of a good time, just so long as you keep out the riff raff.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Aug 30, 2019 16:36:16 GMT
Oh man. You're on the verge of some major self-destruction. Save yourself and just enjoy the greatness of the X-Men movies. Fuck salvation, that shit is boring, damnation on the other hand is a hell of a good time, just so long as you keep out the riff raff. I hope you will meet Belasco in Hell as soon as you can. You're clearly a villain. LOL.
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
Likes: 162
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Post by thenolan on Aug 31, 2019 7:57:13 GMT
I thought I was DCFan not Summers8? The name calling here is more boring than most MCU movies. It's like their fans are as empty as their movies.
How long do I have to wait for a good well written adult oriented time travel MCU movie? I have gotten it from X-men and DC. I need one from the MCU.
It doesn't really matter which one you are. A troll is a troll.
I doubt being a troll is defined as people who don't appreciate those dumb MCU movies though. what's is going on with mcu fans, why do they get so personal.
I am sure DC-Fan had good reasons for hating mcu movies, he must have watched all those Nolan awesome films.
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