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Post by goz on Aug 19, 2019 21:20:33 GMT
It completely absolves the utterer/believer of any responsibility, logic or morality.
IF a believer truly believes that acts of humans against each other, natural disasters, predictions of future events, especially secular political matters, are God's Will, then we are all doomed, should this mindset take hold, or even influence the power base..
Christians criticise Muslims for this phenomenon, yet they should look VERY carefully in their own backyard because this fallacy lays them open to the grip of very corrupt powerful leaders, both in the church and the nations where it occurs.
The Catholic Church has been forced to acknowledge this.
How about evangelical far right America?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 19, 2019 22:42:03 GMT
What is, and what isn't, supposedly God's will on any particular day is impossible to know outside of inspiration, since no one knows His mind for sure. And inspiration can be poor. For instance is it the purported deity's will that the good should die in tidal waves? Either way it doesn't seem to make a difference to the outcome.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 19, 2019 22:52:10 GMT
Why would I have responsibility for a natural disaster?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 19, 2019 22:56:14 GMT
Why would I have responsibility for a natural disaster? I think you are confusing yourself with a purported deity who made an imperfect world, specifically admits to creating natural evil, takes pleasure in all of his creation and does not favour the good and innocent over the rest when it comes to the worst of natural events.
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Post by Vegas on Aug 19, 2019 22:57:47 GMT
Yeah... I never really got the "It's God will" line.... How the hell would you ever know the difference? I get there is supposed to be a general decline of humane civility in the "last days" and humans are supposed to end their "rule without God" in abject failure... so every bad thing is just a step in God's overall plan for waiting for us to fail... ..but, to think that God personally derailed that train on purpose as part of His daily chores for the day.. or to see it as something to see the bright-side of... seems rather silly of a notion to me. On the other side... I also don't really see Him helping any given team to win The Super Bowl, either...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 19, 2019 23:00:25 GMT
Why would I have responsibility for a natural disaster? I think you are confusing yourself with a purported deity who made an imperfect world, specifically admits to creating natural evil, takes pleasure in all of his creation and does not favour the good and innocent over the rest when it comes to the worst of natural events. They're natural events. Everyone prepares for them accordingly. The OP was discussing how it completely absolves the utterer/believer of any responsibility, logic or morality. I say God's Will places more responsibility on me than any theophobiac would ever claim to have for themselves. But if I misunderstood what Goz was rambling on about, then so be it.
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Post by novastar6 on Aug 19, 2019 23:08:32 GMT
Actually the most dangerous phrase is 'We're from the government, and we're here to help'.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 19, 2019 23:12:42 GMT
I think you are confusing yourself with a purported deity who made an imperfect world, specifically admits to creating natural evil, takes pleasure in all of his creation and does not favour the good and innocent over the rest when it comes to the worst of natural events. They're natural events. Everyone prepares for them accordingly. God specifically admits to creating evil in Isiah as you might remember (glossed by apologists a 'natural evil' or 'dire misfortune' rather than the sort stemming from the misuse of free will.) It is not always possible to 'prepare' for childhood cancer or being caught in an earthquake or a road accident. And since it is apparent that the good and innocent suffer equally with the sinful, arguably it is not good enough to 'prepare' by praying for intercession or protection rather than not. (Though of cause the Xian god still likes and expects His praise). As already pointed out, since no one knows God's mind, excepting the Holy Spirit, then all you have to go on is inspiration. What was the purported deity thinking, creating at least one form of evil deliberately and then expecting always to be loved by those it affects so badly? No, I don't know either. And I would say that a notion of the absurd nurtured by the existentialist atheist, say, trumps any hubris from theophiliacs.
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Post by goz on Aug 19, 2019 23:18:46 GMT
I think you are confusing yourself with a purported deity who made an imperfect world, specifically admits to creating natural evil, takes pleasure in all of his creation and does not favour the good and innocent over the rest when it comes to the worst of natural events. They're natural events. Everyone prepares for them accordingly. The OP was discussing how it completely absolves the utterer/believer of any responsibility, logic or morality. I say God's Will places more responsibility on me than any theophobiac would ever claim to have for themselves.But if I misunderstood what Goz was rambling on about, then so be it. Why would you take more responsibility for anything, or is it because you think you are somehow 'speshul'? Yes, you are wilfully moving the goalposts as usual. IF you actually think that everything that happens 'is God's will', then there is really no point in thinking or planning or trying to achieve a better result for anyone or anything.
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Post by goz on Aug 19, 2019 23:21:16 GMT
Actually the most dangerous phrase is 'We're from the government, and we're here to help'. Why, on earth would you say that? I know you didn't go to school which the Government provides in the USA butt presumably you drive on roads across bridges and regularly use other 'Government' provided/funded facilities on a daily basis?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 19, 2019 23:22:10 GMT
FilmFlaneurPost the verse you are talking about and I will educate you yet again (Yawn) There's plenty of verse that indicate natural events and random events happen to everyone but you already know that per your previous post and are just inventing something to whine about for this particular occasion. Are you saying nature isn't natural?
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Post by goz on Aug 19, 2019 23:23:41 GMT
Yeah... I never really got the "It's God will" line.... b]How the hell would you ever know the difference? How the hell would you ever know the difference? I get there is supposed to be a general decline of humane civility in the "last days" and humans are supposed to end their "rule without God" in abject failure... so every bad thing is just a step in God's overall plan for waiting for us to fail... ..but, to think that God personally derailed that train on purpose as part of His daily chores for the day.. or to see it as something to see the bright-side of... seems rather silly of a notion to me. On the other side... I also don't really see Him helping any given team to win The Super Bowl, either... That's easy. It is what the men in power in whatever religion you follow tells you.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 19, 2019 23:24:05 GMT
They're natural events. Everyone prepares for them accordingly. The OP was discussing how it completely absolves the utterer/believer of any responsibility, logic or morality. I say God's Will places more responsibility on me than any theophobiac would ever claim to have for themselves.But if I misunderstood what Goz was rambling on about, then so be it. Why would you take more responsibility for anything, or is it because you think you are somehow 'speshul'? God's Will.
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Post by goz on Aug 19, 2019 23:29:01 GMT
Why would you take more responsibility for anything, or is it because you think you are somehow 'speshul'? God's Will. lol Congratulations! You win the RFS 'Circular Argument of the Year Award!!!
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 19, 2019 23:46:42 GMT
God's Will. lol Congratulations! You win the RFS 'Circular Argument of the Year Award!!! I cannot comprehend why you make so many threads about something you know nothing about. Just think of all the good that could be accomplished if only you could convince people that you are content with your own views. Anyway...This wasn't a circular argument since it contradicts your argument. You would know this if you actually understood your own argument.
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Post by novastar6 on Aug 19, 2019 23:48:42 GMT
Actually the most dangerous phrase is 'We're from the government, and we're here to help'. Why, on earth would you say that? I know you didn't go to school which the Government provides in the USA butt presumably you drive on roads across bridges and regularly use other 'Government' provided/funded facilities on a daily basis?
Ask Ronald Reagan, he's the one who coined the phrase, now ask yourself why the President of the United States would warn the public to be wary of the government offering to help you. And maybe if you knew something about AMERICAN government, you'd know why people don't trust them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 19, 2019 23:52:25 GMT
FilmFlaneur God specifically admits to creating evil in Isiah as you might remember (glossed by apologists a 'natural evil' or 'dire misfortune' rather than the sort stemming from the misuse of free will. CoolJG Post the verse you are talking about and I will educate you yet again (Yawn) Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Does your supposed god say here quite clearly that He created a form of evil (or 'dire misfortune') or not? Yes or no will do. Special pleading and evasion will be noted. I remember last time you or another theophiliac gave acres of verse 'context' but none it took away from the fact that god said what was said. It is not I who offer prayers and praise to an entity which deliberately makes an imperfect world and evil and doesn't offer the good and innocent any consideration different from evildoers when it comes to natural misfortunes and disasters. And don't tell me that I am 'telling your presumed deity what to do'. I am simply asking why He does not do something which would seem perfectly reasonable and in line with the emphasis He has placed on praise and prayer. (This compared to a supposed god like Allah, say, who apparently does not need our prayers.) Er ... No. I am saying that existentialism gives man a much greater sense of his own responsibility, when he is truly on his own, than any idea of eternal punishment from a god obliging good behaviour. For as I am sure you know it is a philosophical theory or approach which emphasizes the existence of the individual person as a free and responsible agent determining their own development through acts of the will. In one scheme of things a supposed supernatural allows us freedom to act and choose, in this we give it ourselves. (The absurdity I mentioned just earlier is born out of the confrontation between the human need and the unreasonable silence of the world.) I hope that helps.
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Post by goz on Aug 20, 2019 0:01:54 GMT
lol Congratulations! You win the RFS 'Circular Argument of the Year Award!!! OK. I will play. What is 'God's Will'? How do you know this?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 20, 2019 0:25:16 GMT
FilmFlaneurSince context is your worst enemy I will assume that quaoting the rest of the chapter will not count by your idiotic standards, but honesty copells me to post it anyway. So as is obvious for anyone else to see, the verse isn;t even talking about natural disaster but even if it were, what makes you so stupid to think it's discussing an ongoing thing? You doing or not doing anything has nothing to do with your incorrect views of who I worship. There is no reason for God to stop natural occurrences or to even think of them as imperfect. After all, he will remember and provide salvation for any number of people who worship him and you simply experience what you already expected. So if you aren't worried about yourself regarding natural disasters and worshippers are not worried about what happens to them since they understand what his power can accomplish, then what exactly are you whining about? And to be clear, you are definitely whining about something just as Goz is, it just seems like you've gotten your whining wires crossed. Why would you presume to think I'm worried about eternal punishment of any kind? The only time I think about it is when you tell me to and even then it just gives me a snicker for the day. Of course, good behavior is encouraged and mandatory which is a good thing. Worship specifically involves personal responsibility for my actions, for my immediate survival, and to help society at large including you. Would I do these things without worship? Probably although I imagine it would depend on how I was raised, but you haven't explained why there is a reason to be upset that I do it as a Christian.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 20, 2019 0:27:23 GMT
OK. I will play. What is 'God's Will'? How do you know this? I thought you told me what God's will is which is why I have no feeling of responsibility in life. Anything regarding God's Will is readily available in Scripture. You should read it sometime since it's clear you never have. Would you like a free Bible Study?
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