|
Post by Vits on Nov 12, 2019 17:44:08 GMT
And by "like this" you mean...?
|
|
|
Post by Nicko's Nose on Nov 12, 2019 17:45:45 GMT
When are you gonna update your title with the actual score?
|
|
|
Post by Maly Class Productions on Nov 12, 2019 18:15:44 GMT
And by "like this" you mean...? A full out comedy of this nature. One that is zany.
|
|
|
Post by Vits on Nov 12, 2019 18:31:20 GMT
A full out comedy of this nature. One that is zany. THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL, MIDNIGHT IN PARIS, JUNO, LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE, AS GOOD AS IT GETS, THE FULL MONTY, JERRY MAGUIRE, MIGHTY APHRODITE, WORKING GIRL, A FISH CALLED WANDA, TOOTSIE, ARTHUR, HEAVEN CAN WAIT, ANNIE HALL, THE SUNSHINE BOYS, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE BOURGEOISIE, MASH, HELLO DOLLY, THE PRODUCERS...
|
|
|
Post by Maly Class Productions on Nov 12, 2019 19:25:19 GMT
A full out comedy of this nature. One that is zany. THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL, MIDNIGHT IN PARIS, JUNO, LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE, AS GOOD AS IT GETS, THE FULL MONTY, JERRY MAGUIRE, MIGHTY APHRODITE, WORKING GIRL, A FISH CALLED WANDA, TOOTSIE, ARTHUR, HEAVEN CAN WAIT, ANNIE HALL, THE SUNSHINE BOYS, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE BOURGEOISIE, MASH, HELLO DOLLY, THE PRODUCERS... None of those are even close to being as zany as this one. And a good chunk of those movies, pretty much all of them, are not even close to the same type of comedy style. And some of them are dramedies. Jerry Maguire, As Good As It Gets, Annie Hall and Juno are some. So terrible comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Jep Gambardella on Nov 15, 2019 12:27:44 GMT
What a sad state of affairs - a three-page thread on a movie where the majority of the posts are not about the movie itself but about the rating of the movie.
I saw it yesterday and I am not sure what to make of it. It's a bizarre movie, attempting to make humour out of a subject matter that really doesn't lend itself to humour, and succeeding only partially.
|
|
|
Post by merh on Nov 17, 2019 8:55:36 GMT
What a sad state of affairs - a three-page thread on a movie where the majority of the posts are not about the movie itself but about the rating of the movie. I saw it yesterday and I am not sure what to make of it. It's a bizarre movie, attempting to make humour out of a subject matter that really doesn't lend itself to humour, and succeeding only partially. Mel Brooks did his share of Nazi humor. Waititi is also Jewish. It's actually a movie about blind fanaticism. Its about people trying to do their best (as was said a few times in the movie). Not all Germans were evil in that time. Some were doing whatever they could to survive. Look at the mom telling Elsa Jojo was a good kid, this fanaticism has just taken over meaning as his mom she's hoping he'll grow out of it. Meanwhile mom's playing dangerous games hiding a Jewish girl in her home & leaving notices around to help others like Elsa. Working the resistance. Jojo is a little boy with a father who has vanished while fighting in Italy. Bullies suggest he's deserted. Jojo has turned to fierce loyalty to the Nazi party to take daddy's place, but his imaginary Hitler is a 10 yr old's idea of a super-duper hero. Unicorn for dinner? Bomb-proof legs? Faced with a real live Jew, Jojo throws all the propaganda at her & begins to learn it's all lies. He learns she's not some inhuman characture his head's been filled with. It's an excellent film that points out the German people were often as much victims of Hitler as the people sent to concentration camps. They starved for his war. They died for his war.
|
|
|
Post by darkpast on Jan 14, 2020 3:33:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Nicko's Nose on Jan 14, 2020 16:37:43 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sdrew13163 on Jan 15, 2020 0:06:10 GMT
Just successful Oscar bait now.
|
|
driftin
Sophomore
@driftin
Posts: 144
Likes: 93
|
Post by driftin on Jan 15, 2020 9:13:48 GMT
Completely ignoring the now factually wrong title of this thread, I didn't like the film but I wouldn't really call it Oscar bait. Subject matter aside, it's too weird and risky to be the usual prestige drama known as "Oscar bait" that the Academy usually goes for.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Jan 15, 2020 14:41:09 GMT
I loved the film. The butterfly scene was a real stinger. The use of Bowie excellent
|
|
|
Post by Nora on Jan 15, 2020 23:21:29 GMT
i found it very funny and tasteful at the same time. Very well done. 9/10 from me. Time to swallow my pride based on my previous comments and thoughts on this film when it was first advertised. It looked weird, bizarre and bias slanted. I just came out of the theater and was gobsmacked and emotionally wrung out. It was outstanding on every level! glad you liked it. yes its a briliantly made mvoie that managed to suceed at presenting such delicate subject with both humor and heart. incredible.
|
|
soullimbo
Sophomore
@soullimbo
Posts: 377
Likes: 72
|
Post by soullimbo on Jan 18, 2020 6:26:30 GMT
I thought it was brilliant! And the only reason it works is because it's done through the eyes of a 10 year-old boy. I was particularly impressed with how "mum" comes across so differently when alone with the Jewish girl....nervous/strained/fearful , compared to the rest of the film which is from the boy's point of view.
As for the whole "Oscar bait" nonsense...well, who gives a fuck about those wankers who wouldn't recognise talent or a good movie if it slapped them in the face with one of Melania Trump's strap-ons!!
|
|
|
Post by miike80 on Jan 20, 2020 8:00:35 GMT
I absolutely loved it, it's what La Vita e Bella wishes it was
|
|
|
Post by joekiddlouischama on Jan 24, 2020 4:39:15 GMT
What a sad state of affairs - a three-page thread on a movie where the majority of the posts are not about the movie itself but about the rating of the movie. I saw it yesterday and I am not sure what to make of it. It's a bizarre movie, attempting to make humour out of a subject matter that really doesn't lend itself to humour, and succeeding only partially. Mel Brooks did his share of Nazi humor. Waititi is also Jewish. It's actually a movie about blind fanaticism. Its about people trying to do their best (as was said a few times in the movie). Not all Germans were evil in that time. Some were doing whatever they could to survive. Look at the mom telling Elsa Jojo was a good kid, this fanaticism has just taken over meaning as his mom she's hoping he'll grow out of it. Meanwhile mom's playing dangerous games hiding a Jewish girl in her home & leaving notices around to help others like Elsa. Working the resistance. Jojo is a little boy with a father who has vanished while fighting in Italy. Bullies suggest he's deserted. Jojo has turned to fierce loyalty to the Nazi party to take daddy's place, but his imaginary Hitler is a 10 yr old's idea of a super-duper hero. Unicorn for dinner? Bomb-proof legs? Faced with a real live Jew, Jojo throws all the propaganda at her & begins to learn it's all lies. He learns she's not some inhuman characture his head's been filled with. It's an excellent film that points out the German people were often as much victims of Hitler as the people sent to concentration camps. They starved for his war. They died for his war. What was it about the film that conveyed this idea to you? Are you referring to them constituting "victims" of propaganda? You may well possess a great point, but it did not occur to me in either of my two viewings. Of course, Hitler managed to maintain and further his power partly by tapping into the anti-Semitism that proved pervasive in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. (Granted, Americans were not immune to it, either.) Germans were also attracted by notions of vengeance and redemption after their loss in World War I and their feelings of humiliation in its punitive aftermath, and Hitler managed to tap into those bitter emotions as well. So I am not sure that it was just "his war," and their idolatry allowed him to turn a democracy into a dictatorship. Of course, not everyone in Nazi Germany subscribed to Hitler's bigotry and warmongering, but I would suggest that a better film in that regard—and a better movie overall—is The Exception, which hit (a small number of) theaters in the summer of 2017. "The Exception" Frankly, I feel that The Exception offers a smoother mix of irony and tenderness than Jojo Rabbit.
|
|
|
Post by merh on Jan 24, 2020 10:04:06 GMT
Mel Brooks did his share of Nazi humor. Waititi is also Jewish. It's actually a movie about blind fanaticism. Its about people trying to do their best (as was said a few times in the movie). Not all Germans were evil in that time. Some were doing whatever they could to survive. Look at the mom telling Elsa Jojo was a good kid, this fanaticism has just taken over meaning as his mom she's hoping he'll grow out of it. Meanwhile mom's playing dangerous games hiding a Jewish girl in her home & leaving notices around to help others like Elsa. Working the resistance. Jojo is a little boy with a father who has vanished while fighting in Italy. Bullies suggest he's deserted. Jojo has turned to fierce loyalty to the Nazi party to take daddy's place, but his imaginary Hitler is a 10 yr old's idea of a super-duper hero. Unicorn for dinner? Bomb-proof legs? Faced with a real live Jew, Jojo throws all the propaganda at her & begins to learn it's all lies. He learns she's not some inhuman characture his head's been filled with. It's an excellent film that points out the German people were often as much victims of Hitler as the people sent to concentration camps. They starved for his war. They died for his war. What was it about the film that conveyed this idea to you? Are you referring to them constituting "victims" of propaganda? You may well possess a great point, but it did not occur to me in either of my two viewings. Of course, Hitler managed to maintain and further his power partly by tapping into the anti-Semitism that proved pervasive in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. (Granted, Americans were not immune to it, either.) Germans were also attracted by notions of vengeance and redemption after their loss in World War I and their feelings of humiliation in its punitive aftermath, and Hitler managed to tap into those bitter emotions as well. So I am not sure that it was just "his war," and their idolatry allowed him to turn a democracy into a dictatorship. Of course, not everyone in Nazi Germany subscribed to Hitler's bigotry and warmongering, but I would suggest that a better film in that regard—and a better movie overall—is The Exception, which hit (a small number of) theaters in the summer of 2017. "The Exception" Frankly, I feel that The Exception offers a smoother mix of irony and tenderness than Jojo Rabbit. Sounds like a different focus entirely. I read The Eagle Has Landed in the 70s when it was probably my introduction to the idea not all Germans were evil in WWII. As a teen child of a parents who were children during WWII I had always heard Germans & Japanese were evil, horrible enemy soldiers in that era, though of course that was not to be held against them in the current era (1970s.) I mean, yeah, Dr Erskine nails it inside of the first minute of this clip. Ever see this one?
|
|
|
Post by Vits on Feb 1, 2020 11:24:33 GMT
There's a common misconception that comedy movies don't require good production values (especially the framing of the shots) just because the jokes are the priority. And if the movie takes place in the past, the sets tend to look like they belong in a stage play or a sketch TV show. Movies like JOJO RABBIT luckily go against this notion. Mihai Malaimare Jr.'s cinematography and Ra Vincent's production design display a lot of effort. Roman Griffin Davis and Thomasin McKenzie's performances are outstanding. I had doubts in regards to the premise: In 1940s Germany, a boy named Johannes "Jojo" Betzler (who wants to become a Nazi) discovers a girl named Elsa Korr hiding in his attic. I thought "I know where things will go. He'll be scared at first yet intrigued by her beauty. He'll get to know her, slowly realizing that Jews aren't evil after all, while he's falls in love with her. I don't like this idea very much. It'll be implied that his attraction motivates him to be open-minded in the first place. That the situation wouldn't be the same if Elsa was a boy. Therefore, him discovering he's been fed lies won't ring as true." While the plot does play out like this, there's a detail that makes a big difference. During one of their first conversations, Elsa tells Jojo "No, you're not a Nazi. You may like swastikas and you may wear this uniform, but you don't belong with them." I interpreted this as Elsa being able to see what's inside Jojo: A kind person (something that was already confirmed at the beginning of the movie, where he didn't follow an officer's order to kill a rabbit). So... No, it's not about the power of boners. The sad, thrilling and sweet moments are well-executed. One in particular is (and will be) hard to forget. Without getting into spoilers, let's just say that Jojo briefly thinks that Elsa (as a Jew) is to blame for something bad. He confronts her in a scene with no dialogue. Well, since the dramatic moments in a comedy are supposed to enhance it instead of overshadow it, I guess I should consider all of this a flaw. I wouldn't do that if this was trying to be a dramedy, but no. It's trying to be a comedy first and foremost. A very wacky one. Don't get me wrong; I did laugh while watching this movie, but not as often as I could have. No gag is truly memorable. Taika Waititi came up with cleverly satirical observations, he clearly left the most obvious jokes possible reserved for the Führer himself. When you create a supporting character who can only be seen and heard by the protagonist, you can still make them feel like they're participants in the story. Here, the presence of Adolf Hitler as Jojo's imaginary friend doesn't seem to serve a purpose beyond the mockery of a real-life villain. You can't even excuse this as a catharsis for the audience, because this isn't the first or even the millionth time we've seen him being made fun of. For some reason, he sometimes tries to interact with other people. Not just talk to them; he makes weird faces underwater while he watches people inside a pool, even though they're not really doing anything odd and even though Jojo is far away and probably not even paying attention to those people... How and why is Jojo imagining all of this? Not surprisingly, this flamboyant and cheery man eventually shows his angry side to Jojo. Is this supposed to represent how Germans felt when they realized that their leader's positive image was a political strategy and the result of the manipulation of the media? Well, if it's not the real Hitler that Jojo is seeing, it doesn't have as much meaning. 7/10 ------------------------------------- You can read comments of other movies in my blog.
|
|
|
Post by joekiddlouischama on Feb 13, 2020 11:13:42 GMT
What was it about the film that conveyed this idea to you? Are you referring to them constituting "victims" of propaganda? You may well possess a great point, but it did not occur to me in either of my two viewings. Of course, Hitler managed to maintain and further his power partly by tapping into the anti-Semitism that proved pervasive in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. (Granted, Americans were not immune to it, either.) Germans were also attracted by notions of vengeance and redemption after their loss in World War I and their feelings of humiliation in its punitive aftermath, and Hitler managed to tap into those bitter emotions as well. So I am not sure that it was just "his war," and their idolatry allowed him to turn a democracy into a dictatorship. Of course, not everyone in Nazi Germany subscribed to Hitler's bigotry and warmongering, but I would suggest that a better film in that regard—and a better movie overall—is The Exception, which hit (a small number of) theaters in the summer of 2017. "The Exception" Frankly, I feel that The Exception offers a smoother mix of irony and tenderness than Jojo Rabbit. Jojo Rabbit did show how ordinary Germans were also pushed into a conflict that was founded on propaganda and bigotry and the hate and lies spread by the Nazis. Those that opposed the regime were dissidents. While the film didn't really go into great detail about the underground German resistance—it was from the pov of a 10yr old boy being indoctrinated into lies—we as the viewer, knew the point that was being made and how Germans ended up being vilified just for being German when they didn't all share the same ideology as Hitler. This spoke loud and clear to me through Waititi's presentation of his subject matter and manner of presentation. Klenzendorf's own character, capture and his ultimate realization of his fate conveyed as much. He wasn't a rotten Nazi, just trying to work around a difficult situation to survive himself.
I do need to see the film again and the Gestapo's visit to Jojo's home left me a tad confused. I felt that the Gestapo were also not quite buying into all of it either. ... some "ordinary Germans," yes. My befuddlement seems to have stemmed from merh's phrase "the German people," which would seem to suggest—perhaps inadvertently—the bulk of the populace. The desire for revenge following World War I and its punitive aftermath, along with the anti-Semitism that ultimately led to mass deportations and genocide, were certainly not shared by all Germans. Nor, however, were they simply forces imposed by Hitler upon an unwitting populace that never harbored those feelings. In that sense, Hitler was a symptom of societal disease as much as proved to be a cause. I viewed Jojo Rabbit for a third time on Saturday, and there is a line about how Hitler "hid things from the public," which is undoubtedly true. On the other hand, he also made his bigotries and warmongering loud and clear. Regarding the Gestapo visit, I do feel that those guys proved ostensibly sincere in their intolerance. However, while I enjoy that sequence in particular, the movie's blend of sheer farce and humanistic commentary is far from perfect (from my perspective), hence possibly accounting for your confusion. (I will explain that critique more in another thread, but I expressed my basic thoughts in this one: link.) In other words, the Gestapo visit, like much of the film, represents slapstick and parody, meaning that it is so over-the-top that it inherently undermines any sense of ideological conviction (rather like Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles). Similarly, one might even believe that, based on Waititi's performance and directorial presentation, he is suggesting that Hitler himself was not a true believer. I do not think that that was the filmmaker's intention, but it represents the ultimate logic of this kind of parody. And that would be fine, except that Jojo Rabbit harbors humanistic desires and sentimental ambitions that render Hitler's passionate intolerance a necessity. The result, for me, is modestly effective yet uneven. Conversely, Captain Klezendorf is certainly cynical, dissolute, and more lenient—and Sam Rockwell is one of the best actors of the present moment and the best in this movie, perfectly illuminating those qualities.
|
|
|
Post by joekiddlouischama on Feb 14, 2020 5:38:30 GMT
I saw the film again the other day for the second time. I loved it just as much as I did the first.
I paid specific attention to the Gestapo sequence and understood that it was Klezendorf that knew the error in the birthdate, but didn't let on, when Elsa later commented to Jojo about her slip up. That was something I just missed in the first viewing about Klezendorf's character. Yes, the Gestapo were doing what they believed, in following their orders. It made me laugh, but I also questioned why I was laughing and the terrifying threat and danger that these minions of Hitler could unleash. It was Monty Pythonesque in its absurdity, but the situation Elsa was in, Rosie's situation in hiding her and the sheer existence of this deadly police force was also absurd in itself. It was a dangerous farce and on recollection, I feel Waititi handled this very well. One is laughing despite themselves, but if one didn't laugh, what is one supposed to do, cry instead?
Rockwell was perfectly cast and he is a great screen presence. His character was homosexual and he himself was existing as something that was on the Nazi's wipeout list. There was a self-preservation and a call of duty for him to survive in this extraordinary time, but he was also still warm within his own humanity, which hadn't been beaten out of him. Unfortunately, and even understandably in an absurd sense, had to pay the ultimate price.
... yes, a good point. The film's writing is certainly intelligent.
|
|