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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Apr 20, 2017 9:27:24 GMT
I think he literally means it - he'll use his all new Rian Johnson time travel force powers to open a portal and send Rey and Kylo back to the distant past.
There they shall separate and form the Jedi and Sith orders - this origin story will undoubtedly be in the Journal of the Whills, the books we see Luke has in the trailer...
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Post by audiosane on Apr 21, 2017 12:47:26 GMT
Can Gray Jedi exist if dark side Force users are still around? Is balancing the Force a prerequisite or something? |
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Post by audiosane on Apr 21, 2017 12:49:27 GMT
If this trailer is anything like Rogue One's, the line may not even be in the film! Speaking of which, does anyone in the teaser say anything remotely close to "...I rebel"? |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 21, 2017 13:05:57 GMT
Can Gray Jedi exist if dark side Force users are still around? Is balancing the Force a prerequisite or something? I saw something that had them fighting both sides so they don't kill off each other. Think about how the Jedi were in the prequels. They might as well have been the Sith. It's basically like saying "For God to be good there must be a Devil." But I'm thinking with the movies it could be no dark and no light. Just both sides melded into one. Hell, for the next Final Fantasy 14 expansion, the lore for Red Mages is that White Mages and Black Mages came together in a time of need and created a balanced mage that are both schools (Red Mages). In the Legacy EU, Luke made the academy lean more into the gray just by allowing them to keep attachment. By the end, with the Yuuzhan Vong and Jacen Solo turning dark, they started adding in more and more dark side abilities with their light. They pretty much were full on Gray Jedi (abilities, not dogma) after Jacen. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 21, 2017 13:09:13 GMT
If this trailer is anything like Rogue One's, the line may not even be in the film! Speaking of which, does anyone in the teaser say anything remotely close to "...I rebel"? No, she only says that she feels light, dark and balance. And since Hamill said he did extra audio for the trailer, I'm thinking the narration for it won't be in the movie. Also, that "...I rebel." wasn't in the movie. It was just something to explain things faster. |
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Post by audiosane on Apr 21, 2017 13:21:30 GMT
Can Gray Jedi exist if dark side Force users are still around? Is balancing the Force a prerequisite or something? I saw something that had them fighting both sides so they don't kill off each other. Think about how the Jedi were in the prequels. They might as well have been the Sith. It's basically like saying "For God to be good there must be a Devil." But I'm thinking with the movies it could be no dark and no light. Just both sides melded into one. Hell, for the next Final Fantasy 14 expansion, the lore for Red Mages is that White Mages and Black Mages came together in a time of need and created a balanced mage that are both schools (Red Mages). They fight both sides? Can you imagine Luke going back in time and fighting Yoda and Obi-Wan because they were Jedi? The PT Jedi were dumbed down and strict, not evil. For a thousand years or so, the Jedi Order had believed the Sith were extinct. Then Qui-Gon Jinn encountered Darth Maul. Wouldn't "For God to be good there must be a Devil" only make sense if the Jedi felt there needed to be Sith around? Instead, they seemed pretty intent on destroying them whenever possible. If both sides meld into one, where's the Force-related conflict going to arise from? |
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Post by audiosane on Apr 21, 2017 13:28:39 GMT
Speaking of which, does anyone in the teaser say anything remotely close to "...I rebel"? No, she only says that she feels light, dark and balance. And since Hamill said he did extra audio for the trailer, I'm thinking the narration for it won't be in the movie. Also, that "...I rebel." wasn't in the movie. It was just something to explain things faster. I meant anything remotely annoying as "...I rebel." And I wasn't referring only to Rey. I know that line wasn't in the movie. I was referring specifically to the teaser. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 21, 2017 14:13:57 GMT
I saw something that had them fighting both sides so they don't kill off each other. Think about how the Jedi were in the prequels. They might as well have been the Sith. It's basically like saying "For God to be good there must be a Devil." But I'm thinking with the movies it could be no dark and no light. Just both sides melded into one. Hell, for the next Final Fantasy 14 expansion, the lore for Red Mages is that White Mages and Black Mages came together in a time of need and created a balanced mage that are both schools (Red Mages). They fight both sides? Can you imagine Luke going back in time and fighting Yoda and Obi-Wan because they were Jedi? The PT Jedi were dumbed down and strict, not evil. For a thousand years or so, the Jedi Order had believed the Sith were extinct. Then Qui-Gon Jinn encountered Darth Maul. Wouldn't "For God to be good there must be a Devil" only make sense if the Jedi felt there needed to be Sith around? Instead, they seemed pretty intent on destroying them whenever possible. If both sides meld into one, where's the Force-related conflict going to arise from? They fight both sides so they wouldn't wipe the others out. To them, balance was having both Jedi and Sith. The PT Jedi weren't evil, but without the opposing side they can come off that way to regular people because they were forcing themselves into conflicts and shutting them down. They were the Republic's dogs like Vader in the OT really. The prequels were like us seeing the OT from the Empire's PoV as if they were the good side. Imagine how different the prequels would be if we saw them from the CIS perspective. And about Jedi needing the Sith. In The Bible, there are many people taking on the role of the satan. He's a product of us needing an opposer. So it's not really God that needed him around, but us to show that God is good. So the Jedi wouldn't keep Sith around to show us they are the good side, but a 3rd party would be there to keep them around. The Jedi wanted to destroy the Sith because that's what they do. After all the wars with them, they feel they have to destroy them whenever they appear so no wars would start up between them again. Jedi and Sith aren't the only Force users. Also, they won't really meld into one automatically. The Gray Jedi would only come from Luke and his students. There could always be some full Light and Dark Side users around. It's only that Luke is the last Jedi (for the purposes of these movies*) so going forward Jedi won't be like the Republic Jedi. *Who's to say there weren't other Jedi that survived Vader's purge and trained others behind the scenes. They did in the Legacy novels. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 21, 2017 14:15:50 GMT
No, she only says that she feels light, dark and balance. And since Hamill said he did extra audio for the trailer, I'm thinking the narration for it won't be in the movie. Also, that "...I rebel." wasn't in the movie. It was just something to explain things faster. I meant anything remotely annoying as "...I rebel." And I wasn't referring only to Rey. I know that line wasn't in the movie. I was referring specifically to the teaser. No, the only ones that talk are Luke and Rey and some lines from older movies in the background after Rey says something about light and dark. It just sounds like he's training her mentally, then telling her what has to happen about the Jedi. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 17:42:19 GMT
Can Gray Jedi exist if dark side Force users are still around? Is balancing the Force a prerequisite or something? Great question. The short answer is yes. Gray Jedi are an interesting lot. Balancing the Force is not a prerequisite. But 99 times out of 100 it winds up being a part of their makeup. There's 2 things that are usually true of most grey Jedi: (1)They don't follow all the rules of the Order. They are often labeled by the Council as bad associates or not to be regarded as role models. They often wind up being kicked out of the Order for not following all of the Code. In the PT ObiWan often tried to paint the picture to Anakin that if he did anything to break the Code it would lead to him being expelled which would lead to him falling to the Darkside and ruining his dreams of being a great Jedi. But a gray Jedi has no such fear because they release that they can continue to be a Jedi in principle and embrace the Lightside independent of the Order. And that their are Lightside truths beyond the rules and regulations of the Order. (2)To some extent they make use of Darkside powers. The Jedi under the Order forbid it, believing it impossible to do without setting yourself on an irreversible path to going completely over to the Darkside. But a grey Jedi believes you can use Darkside powers but the goal is to control with self-discipline, regulation, and balance against the Lightside; rather than embracing it, fueling it with base emotions and surrendering yourself to it. That's a grey Jedi. Some of them do believe in devoting themselves to finding balance in the Force. Both extreme Lightsiders and extreme Darksiders view them as abominations to the Force, poisonous, and should be "exterminated". The term gray Jedi can be extended broadly to include the extremes of a Jedi who doesn't embrace every order and viewpoint of the Council or the Code, all the way to a Sith/Dark Jedi that might embrace and practice a Lightside trait, principle, powers or value. Some examples of gray Jedi: (Canon) QuiGon Jinn, Mace Windu, Ahsoka Tano, Quinlan Vos, Count Dooku (briefly before leaving the Jedi Order) (Non-canon) Kreia, Leor Danal, Leor Hal, Derak Ja'huni, Jonah Kass, Jolee Bindo |
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Post by audiosane on Apr 21, 2017 17:53:43 GMT
Can Gray Jedi exist if dark side Force users are still around? Is balancing the Force a prerequisite or something? Great question. The short answer is yes. Gray Jedi are an interesting lot. Balancing the Force is not a prerequisite. But 99 times out of 100 it winds up being a part of their makeup. There's 2 things that are usually true of most grey Jedi: (1)They don't follow all the rules of the Order. They are often labeled by the Council as bad associates or not to be regarded as role models. They often wind up being kicked out of the Order for not following all of the Code. In the PT ObiWan often tried to paint the picture to Anakin that if he did anything to break the Code it would lead to him being expelled which would lead to him falling to the Darkside and ruining his dreams of being a great Jedi. But a gray Jedi has no such fear because they release that they can continue to be a Jedi in principle and embrace the Lightside independent of the Order. And that their are Lightside truths beyond the rules and regulations of the Order. (2)To some extent they make use of Darkside powers. The Jedi under the Order forbid it, believing it impossible to do without setting yourself on an irreversible path to going completely over to the Darkside. But a grey Jedi believes you can use Darkside powers but the goal is to control with self-discipline, regulation, and balance against the Lightside; rather than embracing it, fueling it with base emotions and surrendering yourself to it. That's a grey Jedi. Some of them do believe in devoting themselves to finding balance in the Force. Both extreme Lightsiders and extreme Darksiders view them as abominations to the Force, poisonous, and should be "exterminated". The term gray Jedi can be extended broadly to include the extremes of a Jedi who doesn't embrace every order and viewpoint of the Council or the Code, all the way to a Sith/Dark Jedi that might embrace and practice a Lightside trait, principle, powers or value. Some examples of gray Jedi: (Canon) QuiGon Jinn, Mace Windu, Ahsoka Tano, Quinlan Vos, Count Dooku (briefly before leaving the Jedi Order) (Non-canon) Kreia, Leor Danal, Leor Hal, Derak Ja'huni, Jonah Kass, Jolee Bindo Thank you for taking the time to explain all that.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 19:22:38 GMT
I'm definitely liking my theory that Luke is Snooke more and more  Jedi are about as bad and shortsighted as Sith. They don't kill people, sure, but they will convince you in dofferent ways. I have never heard of grey Jedi, a very nice way of having a true balance in the force, the only logical way too. |
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