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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 6:45:58 GMT
2 words. Too political. It was ok but if Im being really honest, I didnt really like it. Did it at least achieve the message it wanted to project to the viewer? You might ask. Yeah, kinda hard to ignore. If it wasnt for Joaquin's performance, I'd personally find the film underwhelming. It's definitely a slow-burn but it grabs your attention, more or less.
The title of the film is rather deceptive in my opinion, he is a kind of Joker, perhaps a prototype Joker? Hasnt really found his groove just yet. To me the Joker ultimately serves either himself, general mayhem or to dance with Batman (maybe all the above). This Joker is used as a vehicle to spread a political message. Did I feel sympathy for this character? Yeah sure but both society and the character can be blamed for this criminal consequence. A series of unfortunate events for the 'Joker' turned him into a psychopath but if he didnt take things so personally, I cant help but wonder if he couldnt have made a better life for himself. Oh and there's mental illness too, which obviously didnt help his cause.
Heath Ledger had the stronger performance, no doubt in my mind.
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Oct 4, 2019 6:52:06 GMT
I disagree. Sure it was political as that is the time it is not only set in now, but also in the 70s. Everything going wrong, unemployment high, this was a reality back then. A reality that hit us recently as well. Surely he doesn't like Thomas Wayne, but not for the reasons the protestors don't like him. So, I disagree the politics was too much. In this movie the Joker as we know him is coming of age over a period of time and isn't just thrown at us as the Joker we have known for decades. The ending in my opinion is the turning point into the Joker all know. And that is the entire point of the movie, to give this character a deeper origin than what some have already done. I would agree this is a slow movie for sure overall. However, I do not believe it was ever meant to be something other than a character story. It wasn't meant to be flashy or have tons of action like we are use to with comic book movies. We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 12:06:13 GMT
I disagree. Sure it was political as that is the time it is not only set in now, but also in the 70s. Everything going wrong, unemployment high, this was a reality back then. A reality that hit us recently as well. Surely he doesn't like Thomas Wayne, but not for the reasons the protestors don't like him. So, I disagree the politics was too much. In this movie the Joker as we know him is coming of age over a period of time and isn't just thrown at us as the Joker we have known for decades. The ending in my opinion is the turning point into the Joker all know. And that is the entire point of the movie, to give this character a deeper origin than what some have already done. I would agree this is a slow movie for sure overall. However, I do not believe it was ever meant to be something other than a character story. It wasn't meant to be flashy or have tons of action like we are use to with comic book movies. We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. Not political? Seriously? What about the rant by the Joker towards the end on the show when he was live?
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Oct 4, 2019 12:23:50 GMT
I disagree. Sure it was political as that is the time it is not only set in now, but also in the 70s. Everything going wrong, unemployment high, this was a reality back then. A reality that hit us recently as well. Surely he doesn't like Thomas Wayne, but not for the reasons the protestors don't like him. So, I disagree the politics was too much. In this movie the Joker as we know him is coming of age over a period of time and isn't just thrown at us as the Joker we have known for decades. The ending in my opinion is the turning point into the Joker all know. And that is the entire point of the movie, to give this character a deeper origin than what some have already done. I would agree this is a slow movie for sure overall. However, I do not believe it was ever meant to be something other than a character story. It wasn't meant to be flashy or have tons of action like we are use to with comic book movies. We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. Not political? Seriously? What about the rant by the Joker towards the end on the show when he was live? I admitted it was political. However, I disagree on how political it was. |
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Post by dazz on Oct 4, 2019 19:53:05 GMT
Would you say this fall into the camp I suspected it would fall into for a while now that this isn't a comic book movie really it's just a project that had the comic book IP's slapped onto it to get it greenlit and larger attention and more money than it would have if it weren't tied to the DC and Batman brands?
Because everything I have heard makes it sound like it's not really a Joker movie, or maybe it is a joker movie it is just not a The Joker movie as it were.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Oct 4, 2019 20:09:29 GMT
We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. In my opinion, no one has beaten Nicholson yet....
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Post by dazz on Oct 4, 2019 20:19:58 GMT
We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. More people need to stop thinking how Ledger played The Joker is the only way you can play the Joker, it's not Joker is a multifaceted character with multiple variations to indulge and inform a performance off of, you cannot out Ledger Ledger's Joker, just wont work, each version of the Joker needs the actor to find their own voice with the character, so more we need to stop wanting people to emulate Ledger's Joker and then comparing the two.
But I don't know if that even matters here, this doesn't even sound like The Joker, this as I said before just sounds like a project that couldn't be made for the money they wanted without having to slap an IP to it so they just called it Joker and added a couple of names of famous Batman characters to sell it as an origin story, despite it you know having nothing really to do with the character or comics which the director even said iirc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 5:22:08 GMT
Would you say this fall into the camp I suspected it would fall into for a while now that this isn't a comic book movie really it's just a project that had the comic book IP's slapped onto it to get it greenlit and larger attention and more money than it would have if it weren't tied to the DC and Batman brands? Because everything I have heard makes it sound like it's not really a Joker movie, or maybe it is a joker movie it is just not a The Joker movie as it were. Yes youre right on the money. Btw did you delete your own comment on the dcfan not a fan of the mcu thread?
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Post by Prime etc. on Oct 5, 2019 5:43:07 GMT
In my opinion, no one has beaten Nicholson yet.... Caesar Romero remains the closest to the comics. He was the tallest (the Joker is a tall dude from the 30s-80s) and if you see Romero in other roles you realize he was acting the buffoon deliberately because this was how the Joker was general portrayed. Nicholson could never have been the Joker to Adam West's Batman because he is too short. He needed a short Batman to match him.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 5, 2019 5:47:57 GMT
We need to stop comparing every Joker to Ledger, if we do that we will never enjoy the character again. It is time we move on, but we will always remember him. In my opinion, no one has beaten Nicholson yet.... Jack Nicholson hardly gave the impression that he was challenging himself in the role. Part of what makes Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix great in the role is how much they transformed themselves. Jack Nicholson was just doing what he was already known for doing.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 5, 2019 9:54:05 GMT
Would you say this fall into the camp I suspected it would fall into for a while now that this isn't a comic book movie really it's just a project that had the comic book IP's slapped onto it to get it greenlit and larger attention and more money than it would have if it weren't tied to the DC and Batman brands? Because everything I have heard makes it sound like it's not really a Joker movie, or maybe it is a joker movie it is just not a The Joker movie as it were. This is pretty much what I feared. That it really isn't a movie about the Joker and they're only using his name as an excuse and lure to make a completely different kind of movie. |
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Oct 5, 2019 11:18:10 GMT
In my opinion, no one has beaten Nicholson yet.... Jack Nicholson hardly gave the impression that he was challenging himself in the role. Part of what makes Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix great in the role is how much they transformed themselves. Jack Nicholson was just doing what he was already known for doing. None of that concerns me. All I care about is the end result on the screen. If Nicholson ends up a better Joker by playing himself, so be it.... |
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Post by dazz on Oct 5, 2019 12:53:52 GMT
Would you say this fall into the camp I suspected it would fall into for a while now that this isn't a comic book movie really it's just a project that had the comic book IP's slapped onto it to get it greenlit and larger attention and more money than it would have if it weren't tied to the DC and Batman brands? Because everything I have heard makes it sound like it's not really a Joker movie, or maybe it is a joker movie it is just not a The Joker movie as it were. Yes youre right on the money. Btw did you delete your own comment on the dcfan not a fan of the mcu thread? I never delete my comments, why which one got deleted because I made quite a few...lemme guess it was my he's a Nazi joke right? bet it was Scabs again, dude is so protective over his pet troll.
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Post by merh on Oct 5, 2019 20:30:44 GMT
In my opinion, no one has beaten Nicholson yet.... Jack Nicholson hardly gave the impression that he was challenging himself in the role. Part of what makes Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix great in the role is how much they transformed themselves. Jack Nicholson was just doing what he was already known for doing. Nicholson, like RDJ does play a certain type in many films. Ledger transformed in other films far more. His Joker wasn't superior to the character in other films. Nolan was looking to be different. Burton was going for the character. Jack Napier seems very much in the vein of Caesar Romero's, just less campy. What I love about Burton's Joker is you saw him become unhinged. He started a petty thug, but by the end of the film he seriously did not seem to be able to tell the difference between reality & fantasy. He was more & more removed & thus more & more dangerous. Sorry. I think Burton's Batman would eat Nolan's for lunch & still have room for more. Nolan's was more similar to Burton's Penguin who just had a nasty mean streak.
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