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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Oct 9, 2019 2:33:26 GMT
As a film itself, it's story and characters, the acting, the soundtrack, cinematography, aesthetic choices, easily a 8/10-9/10 film. But as a Joker film, it's a 6/10. And this largely depends on if you're going to see this film as a regular moviegoer for the experience or as a DC fan. As a DC fan, I was disappointed, because even when this film was announced, I always maintained and still do that the Joker works best as enigmatic force of nature with no definite origin. That's not to say don't show anything about his life prior to becoming the Joker but don't necessarily show it all either. I know that the failed comedian and "one bad day away" arc stems from the Joker stories but mental illness from child abuse doesn't fit well with me and wasn't really satisfying either for explaining the Joker's insanity. For me, the Joker is someone who just all of a sudden snapped and for the pettiest reason as well. I know you're not supposed to sympathize for Arthur for killing, but the mental illness is kinda telling you you're supposed to because he had a rough childhood. Phoenix's performance was great and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some kind of Oscar nod, but I still give Ledger the slight edge just because I think he was far more effective with less screen time. They're different takes on the character so I don't think one is better than the other, but Ledger's Joker is comic-esqe, which I like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 3:50:28 GMT
As a film with no Joker attached, it wouldnt even be made
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dnno1
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Post by dnno1 on Oct 9, 2019 19:18:05 GMT
As a film itself, it's story and characters, the acting, the soundtrack, cinematography, aesthetic choices, easily a 8/10-9/10 film. But as a Joker film, it's a 6/10. And this largely depends on if you're going to see this film as a regular moviegoer for the experience or as a DC fan. As a DC fan, I was disappointed, because even when this film was announced, I always maintained and still do that the Joker works best as enigmatic force of nature with no definite origin. That's not to say don't show anything about his life prior to becoming the Joker but don't necessarily show it all either. I know that the failed comedian and "one bad day away" arc stems from the Joker stories but mental illness from child abuse doesn't fit well with me and wasn't really satisfying either for explaining the Joker's insanity. For me, the Joker is someone who just all of a sudden snapped and for the pettiest reason as well. I know you're not supposed to sympathize for Arthur for killing, but the mental illness is kinda telling you you're supposed to because he had a rough childhood. Phoenix's performance was great and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some kind of Oscar nod, but I still give Ledger the slight edge just because I think he was far more effective with less screen time. They're different takes on the character so I don't think one is better than the other, but Ledger's Joker is comic-esqe, which I like.
What can you compare it to? This is the first Joker film. All the other times, the joker was just appearing in a Batman picture.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Oct 10, 2019 20:35:54 GMT
I think they could have mostly solved this by making the ending with him talking to the shrink in Arkham the wraparound story, thus the whole origin is told from his point of view and ambiguous. Very much like The Killing Joke, the obvious inspiration.
I'm just glad that, unlike Venom, the hero counterpart actually had a role.
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