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Post by goz on Oct 9, 2019 22:00:42 GMT
I'd agree with he poster above who said children are seldom 'coerced' into learning anything in public schools. They're exposed to ideas and cultures that may not jibe with some parents' own, and those same parents choose to make an almighty stink about it. I can believe that children from a minority background may sometimes feel more pressured in the US to participate in Christ-centered observances, but even there I suspect that some of the claims of pressuring originate more from the parents (and their legal advisors) than from the actual school activities being practiced. My feeling is that school is a primary place to begin learning respect and gaining knowledge about all cultures and peoples, and private, individual religious bias shouldn't be allowed a place at the table. In that case, they should be teaching about world religions IN GENERAL, not just Islam. What evidence do you have that 'they' are not?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 22:31:55 GMT
I'm reminded of the time or two I ran into this attitude in my science teacher days.
I was once doing Big Bang theory and had a student, 17 or so, tell me she didn't believe in the Big Bang because she believed god created the universe.
I told her I didn't really care what she believed; my job wasn't to make her believe anything at all. When she questioned that I told her that what she believed was irrelevant to me; my job wasn't to make her believe the Big Bang theory, it was merely to make her understand it, and why scientists believed it. "After all, how can you possibly reject Big Bang theory with any confidence if you don't actually know what it is?"
It's similar here. As an atheist, I want everyone to be an atheist. But as a teacher, I wouldn't care one iota what my students believe. But if they're going reject islam, shouldn't they actually know what it is that they're rejecting? How can that possibly be unreasonable?
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Post by goz on Oct 9, 2019 22:39:30 GMT
I'm reminded of the time or two I ran into this attitude in my science teacher days. I was once doing Big Bang theory and had a student, 17 or so, tell me she didn't believe in the Big Bang because she believed god created the universe. I told her I didn't really care what she believed; my job wasn't to make her believe anything at all. When she questioned that I told her that what she believed was irrelevant to me; my job wasn't to make her believe the Big Bang theory, it was merely to make her understand it, and why scientists believed it. "After all, how can you possibly reject Big Bang theory with any confidence if you don't actually know what it is?" It's similar here. As an atheist, I want everyone to be an atheist. But as a teacher, I wouldn't care one iota what my students believe. But if they're going reject islam, shouldn't they actually know what it is that they're rejecting? How can that possibly be unreasonable? What you are saying is the rational approach to learning. The believer, being 'irrational' can't understand that knowing about things that challenge their belief' is not threatening, because to them it is....especially to the parents of believers who have successfully brainwashed their kids and don't appreciate teachers ( or in fact anyone else) teaching them critical thinking as it could ( and is) dangerous to their brainwashing process of young minds.
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Post by Cody™ on Oct 9, 2019 22:42:23 GMT
I'm reminded of the time or two I ran into this attitude in my science teacher days. I was once doing Big Bang theory and had a student, 17 or so, tell me she didn't believe in the Big Bang because she believed god created the universe. I told her I didn't really care what she believed; my job wasn't to make her believe anything at all. When she questioned that I told her that what she believed was irrelevant to me; my job wasn't to make her believe the Big Bang theory, it was merely to make her understand it, and why scientists believed it. "After all, how can you possibly reject Big Bang theory with any confidence if you don't actually know what it is?" It's similar here. As an atheist, I want everyone to be an atheist. But as a teacher, I wouldn't care one iota what my students believe. But if they're going reject islam, shouldn't they actually know what it is that they're rejecting? How can that possibly be unreasonable? As christians we know Islam is a false antichrist religion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 22:49:46 GMT
I'm reminded of the time or two I ran into this attitude in my science teacher days. I was once doing Big Bang theory and had a student, 17 or so, tell me she didn't believe in the Big Bang because she believed god created the universe. I told her I didn't really care what she believed; my job wasn't to make her believe anything at all. When she questioned that I told her that what she believed was irrelevant to me; my job wasn't to make her believe the Big Bang theory, it was merely to make her understand it, and why scientists believed it. "After all, how can you possibly reject Big Bang theory with any confidence if you don't actually know what it is?" It's similar here. As an atheist, I want everyone to be an atheist. But as a teacher, I wouldn't care one iota what my students believe. But if they're going reject islam, shouldn't they actually know what it is that they're rejecting? How can that possibly be unreasonable? As christians we know Islam is a false antichrist religion. No, you merely believe it. And without reason, if you know nothing about it.
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Post by rizdek on Oct 9, 2019 22:56:08 GMT
Something seems off about this. I find it hard to believe they actually forced someone to try to convert to Islam. Was the lesson simply to read about Islam and read aloud one of their prayers? Is that what the person was offended about?
Would that...reciting a prayer, without the accompanying faith/belief actually convert someone TO Islam? Saying the apostles creed or even saying some prayer of repentance doesn't convert me to Christianity if I don't believe what I'm reciting or believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Post by rizdek on Oct 9, 2019 22:58:17 GMT
I'd agree with he poster above who said children are seldom 'coerced' into learning anything in public schools. They're exposed to ideas and cultures that may not jibe with some parents' own, and those same parents choose to make an almighty stink about it. I can believe that children from a minority background may sometimes feel more pressured in the US to participate in Christ-centered observances, but even there I suspect that some of the claims of pressuring originate more from the parents (and their legal advisors) than from the actual school activities being practiced. My feeling is that school is a primary place to begin learning respect and gaining knowledge about all cultures and peoples, and private, individual religious bias shouldn't be allowed a place at the table. In that case, they should be teaching about world religions IN GENERAL, not just Islam. Do we know they weren't teaching world religions in general?
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Post by gadreel on Oct 9, 2019 22:59:53 GMT
Something seems off about this. I find it hard to believe they actually forced someone to try to convert to Islam. Was the lesson simply to read about Islam and read aloud one of their prayers? Is that what the person was offended about? Would that...reciting a prayer, without the accompanying faith/belief actually convert someone TO Islam? Saying the apostles creed or even saying some prayer of repentance doesn't convert me to Christianity if I don't believe what I'm reciting or believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Your big clue should be that the only places reporting this are far right Christian conservative sites, and there is no link on any of them to anything actually legitimately being reported. I suspect that if you could find this in a non-biased news source, the spin would be considerably different.
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Post by Isapop on Oct 9, 2019 23:04:25 GMT
Indeed there is. Maybe someone should have explained that to the plaintiff in the case. Back when I was in high school, before the Lord's Prayer was banned in the public school board, what my high school used to do was: one day read from the New Testament, & then pray the Lord's Prayer; another day, read from the Old Testament & then pray the Jewish prayer of Thanks; Then another day, read from the Quran, & then pray the Muslim prayer; another day, from the Hindu scriptures followed by the Hindu prayer; then another day, from the Buddhist scripture followed by Buddhist prayer. Pretty fair, I would say. And if the Church Of Satan wanted a regular spot in this rotation, would you be OK with that, in the name of fairness?
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Post by rizdek on Oct 9, 2019 23:07:08 GMT
Something seems off about this. I find it hard to believe they actually forced someone to try to convert to Islam. Was the lesson simply to read about Islam and read aloud one of their prayers? Is that what the person was offended about? Would that...reciting a prayer, without the accompanying faith/belief actually convert someone TO Islam? Saying the apostles creed or even saying some prayer of repentance doesn't convert me to Christianity if I don't believe what I'm reciting or believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Your big clue should be that the only places reporting this are far right Christian conservative sites, and there is no link on any of them to anything actually legitimately being reported. I suspect that if you could find this in a non-biased news source, the spin would be considerably different. Fox news reports that the case is supposedly going to the supreme court. www.foxnews.com/opinion/lawsuit-public-school-forced-my-child-to-convert-to-islamIt's really hard to believe they're doing it that way, but I guess someone is making a legal case of it. It would be interesting to see the details of the case brought to the SC.
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Post by Isapop on Oct 9, 2019 23:15:51 GMT
In that case, they should be teaching about world religions IN GENERAL, not just Islam. Do we know they weren't teaching world religions in general? It was a year long course in world history. A five day block was called “The Muslim World”, covering the formation of Middle Eastern empires, basics about Islam, along with the politics, culture, economics, and geography that contributed to the development of those empires.
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Post by thefleetsin on Oct 9, 2019 23:15:52 GMT
the new america
bloated by the outdated belief that everything special has a star spangled relief.
we the people came to receive that steeples are no substitute for humanities need to openly retrieve those thirteen original stars as what we perceive as something more than the power to deceive the indigenous to believe we knew what's best for them all along.
church bells are just like silent alarms with arms betraying the charm of the snakes fit for nothing but harm!
sjw 10/09/19 inspired at this very moment in time as the portal squeals betwixt the carnival deals.
from the 'beguiled series' of poems
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Post by goz on Oct 9, 2019 23:18:26 GMT
I'm reminded of the time or two I ran into this attitude in my science teacher days. I was once doing Big Bang theory and had a student, 17 or so, tell me she didn't believe in the Big Bang because she believed god created the universe. I told her I didn't really care what she believed; my job wasn't to make her believe anything at all. When she questioned that I told her that what she believed was irrelevant to me; my job wasn't to make her believe the Big Bang theory, it was merely to make her understand it, and why scientists believed it. "After all, how can you possibly reject Big Bang theory with any confidence if you don't actually know what it is?" It's similar here. As an atheist, I want everyone to be an atheist. But as a teacher, I wouldn't care one iota what my students believe. But if they're going reject islam, shouldn't they actually know what it is that they're rejecting? How can that possibly be unreasonable? As christians we know Islam is a false antichrist religion. No, you don't since your own religion is on a par with Islam as much as religions go.
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Post by Cody™ on Oct 9, 2019 23:36:59 GMT
As christians we know Islam is a false antichrist religion. No, you merely believe it. And without reason, if you know nothing about it. I know plenty about it trust me. The entire Christian Faith is centred on death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Islam explicitly rejects all three of those propositions. For a Christian Islam is a false religion. As it should be for anybody with a semblance of common sense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 23:50:10 GMT
No, you merely believe it. And without reason, if you know nothing about it. I know plenty about it trust me. Then you should agree with me that people should be educated about islam, along with other major religions, right?
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Post by clusium on Oct 10, 2019 0:36:29 GMT
Back when I was in high school, before the Lord's Prayer was banned in the public school board, what my high school used to do was: one day read from the New Testament, & then pray the Lord's Prayer; another day, read from the Old Testament & then pray the Jewish prayer of Thanks; Then another day, read from the Quran, & then pray the Muslim prayer; another day, from the Hindu scriptures followed by the Hindu prayer; then another day, from the Buddhist scripture followed by Buddhist prayer. Pretty fair, I would say. What about any other religions? To me it is discrimination against them! Actually, back when I was in high school, approximately 80% of the student population was Jewish. Muslim, Buddhist, & Hindu were very much in the minority, back then, & I do not remember any student or teacher belonging any religion outside of the ones I listed here.
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Post by clusium on Oct 10, 2019 0:37:17 GMT
In that case, they should be teaching about world religions IN GENERAL, not just Islam. What evidence do you have that 'they' are not? If they are, then the lawsuit makes no sense.
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Post by clusium on Oct 10, 2019 0:38:01 GMT
In that case, they should be teaching about world religions IN GENERAL, not just Islam. Do we know they weren't teaching world religions in general? See my response to Goz's post.
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Post by clusium on Oct 10, 2019 0:46:44 GMT
Back when I was in high school, before the Lord's Prayer was banned in the public school board, what my high school used to do was: one day read from the New Testament, & then pray the Lord's Prayer; another day, read from the Old Testament & then pray the Jewish prayer of Thanks; Then another day, read from the Quran, & then pray the Muslim prayer; another day, from the Hindu scriptures followed by the Hindu prayer; then another day, from the Buddhist scripture followed by Buddhist prayer. Pretty fair, I would say. And if the Church Of Satan wanted a regular spot in this rotation, would you be OK with that, in the name of fairness? Sure, about as much as a criminal lifestyle as a career course, would deserve a spot in college/university programmes.
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Post by maya55555 on Oct 10, 2019 0:52:09 GMT
Tell me why are they pushing an Islamic agenda? Tell me why you are such a gullible moron first. Blow it out of your nose, honey.
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