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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 1:15:45 GMT
You atheists really believe in a virgin birth: a universe from nothing. Well either everything came from nothing for no reason, or everything has always existed. I'm open to either one and happy to say that "I don't know", words that I'm sure would terrify you. But those are the only two possible options. It's impossible to believe anything else.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 7, 2019 17:58:15 GMT
That’s like saying that before someone does not believe in Santa Claus, he/she must first have to believe in him. You have to know of him, in order to cast an aspersion on the belief of others. The belief then held, is that Santa or God DOES NOT exist. Here I must agree with Toasted to a point; any statement about Santa Claus, or a hypothetical deity come to that, must represent a positive or negative belief. One cannot 'know' that Santa or God does not exist, since it is impossible to ever offer absolute proof for the non-existence for mythical beings. However it is still possible to express lack of belief in such purported beings without being obliged to take a view on whether they ultimately exist or not.
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Post by theauxphou on Dec 7, 2019 20:08:57 GMT
You atheists really believe in a virgin birth: a universe from nothing. You probably missed it, but as I said before in this post: From the article, quote the part where it says the universe came from nothing. I’ll wait. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
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Post by amyghost on Dec 8, 2019 1:00:34 GMT
A puzzler? The author really finds that a puzzler? You, Cody, find it a puzzler? When theism has had such a major and profound impact on mankind's history for thousands of years, how could it be puzzling that people would write books arguing that theism's influence has been, on the whole, an unhealthy one.
Cody finds reading without moving his lips a puzzler, so no big surprises there. He's the typical religoid. Finds it absolutely unthinkable to even conceive of the notion that it's possible to live without belief in some external being, so he constructs the Invisible Fifty Foot Atheism Monster and convinces himself that atheists believe in it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 8, 2019 12:36:52 GMT
Since anyone sat down and saw the obvious distinction. How can you see an obvious distinction between something that doesn't exist, like concept, belief, or non-belief in God? When that is the distinction that I mean, be sure and ask me again.
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Post by Zos on Dec 8, 2019 14:41:56 GMT
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 8, 2019 17:18:52 GMT
When that is the distinction that I mean, be sure and ask me again. So what is the distinction between an abstract? Can you even answer it? The difference is between the 'notion' of an abstract and making affirmative statements about it, either way. There is no investment in an abstract by merely being aware of it. It really isn't that hard. Everyone can name abstract concepts or things with which they are aware but of which they hold no ongoing view. I myself am agnostic towards panspermia, discussed elsewhere on this board just lately. It appears that everyone else can see an obvious distinction between knowledge and opinion, even if you can't..,
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 8, 2019 17:37:37 GMT
Before I can refute any of your claims of proof, I need all your hard evidence that God exist. So the burden of proof is upon you. Good luck with that. If there was proof there would no need of faith.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 13:56:51 GMT
I suppose it depends on how you define "Belief system"....
I heard people say "Atheism is to religion what bald is to a hair color... which, in of itself is rather pithy... but not necessarily accurate... as "bald" isn't meant to be used to describe hair color...
..it's used to describe a hair style.
So, if atheism is to religion what bald is to a hairstyle"... than yes... It is your belief that there are no religious beliefs. It's what you believe..
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 13:58:58 GMT
You atheists really believe in a virgin birth: a universe from nothing. That's actually kind of funny... in a bumpersticker sort of way... but..
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 9, 2019 15:55:40 GMT
I suppose it depends on how you define "Belief system".... I heard people say " Atheism is to religion what bald is to a hair color... which, in of itself is rather pithy... but not necessarily accurate... as "bald" isn't meant to be used to describe hair color... ..it's used to describe a hair style.
So, if atheism is to religion what bald is to a hairstyle"... than yes... It is your belief that there are no religious beliefs. It's what you believe.. I think the key word in "belief system" is "system," not "belief." Even if we want to define atheism as a belief (I don't, btw), it certainly isn't a system. You can't have a "system" centered on not believing in one thing.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 16:04:06 GMT
I think the key word in "belief system" is "system," not "belief." Even if we want to define atheism as a belief (I don't, btw), it certainly isn't a system. You can't have a "system" centered on not believing in one thing. Even then.. It can be...and you might: I mean... not having any beliefs doesn't automatically dislodge a person from having a system of conduct that they believe is right or wrong according to their perceived absence of the divine. Sure.. They might not have to go to meetings to affirm their lack of beliefs.. but they can/sometimes do create their own system to live by.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 9, 2019 20:15:27 GMT
The difference is between the 'notion' of an abstract and making affirmative statements about it, either way. There is no investment in an abstract by merely being aware of it. It really isn't that hard. Everyone can name abstract concepts or things with which they are aware but of which they hold no ongoing view. I myself am agnostic towards panspermia, discussed elsewhere on this board just lately. It appears that everyone else can see an obvious distinction between knowledge and opinion, even if you can't.., How can an abstract be affirmative? I don't know. But that is not what I said. It is people who would make the affirmation. It is where (in the case of a 'hard' or 'positive' atheist for instance) one lacks belief in the deliberate supernatural and then goes on to affirm that god does not exists. I hope that helps.
Yes I agree: since one cannot know for sure that a mythical being does not exist then, as already patiently explained just earlier, any negative affirmation about is just a matter of belief by definition. BUT lack of belief is not contingent on saying a god does not exist. There's not too many ways of saying this. See above. Lacking belief does not require embracement or rejection of anything. It is quite sufficient to say one just does not know (something agnostics do all the time). Atheism is still just the lacking of belief, as I have already shown you. It is only 'hard' atheists who go the extra mile. It is what atheists commonly say, and they ought to know.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 9, 2019 20:35:49 GMT
So, if atheism is to religion what bald is to a hairstyle"... than yes... It is your belief that there are no religious beliefs. It's what you believe.. Last time I checked atheism had nothing to do with a perception or not of religious beliefs, which I would not expect any one to claim do not exist. It is more about a lack of belief in God. Incidentally baldness is not a hairstyle.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 21:34:28 GMT
So, if atheism is to religion what bald is to a hairstyle"... than yes... It is your belief that there are no religious beliefs. It's what you believe.. Last time I checked atheism had nothing to do with a perception or not of religious beliefs, which I would not expect any one to claim do not exist. It is more about a lack of belief in God. Incidentally baldness is not a hairstyle. Of course it is. Whether by choice or by nature. It is how one's hair is described.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 9, 2019 21:35:53 GMT
Last time I checked atheism had nothing to do with a perception or not of religious beliefs, which I would not expect any one to claim do not exist. It is more about a lack of belief in God. Incidentally baldness is not a hairstyle.Of course it is. Whether by choice or by nature. It is how one's hair is described. You can't style something which isn't there. Neither does one normally describe something by its absence. Shall I relate the type of hobnail boots I don't wear in bed?
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Post by goz on Dec 9, 2019 21:50:13 GMT
Of course it is. Whether by choice or by nature. It is how one's hair is described. You can't style something which isn't there. Neither does one normally describe something by its absence. Shall I relate the type of hobnail boots I don't wear in bed? I am so enjoying this thread. It is both silly and meaningful, also something I enjoy. The idea of likening baldness to atheism amuses me and leads to so many other pertinent questions such as 'Is someone perceived as bald ' because it is the expected norm to have hair n the human head? ie is someone an atheist because they have the concept of god and reject it or just don't have the concept, or have an absence of the concept OR have the concept and STILL have an absence of belief? ...or are we all just splitting hairs? If so, why?bald'
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 22:36:58 GMT
Even then.. It can be...and you might: I mean... not having any beliefs doesn't automatically dislodge a person from having a system of conduct that they believe is right or wrong according to their perceived absence of the divine. Sure.. They might not have to go to meetings to affirm their lack of beliefs.. but they can/sometimes do create their own system to live by. system of conduct That's called ethics which does not require a belief in a divine anything. True... but.... Deeming your behavior "good" or "bad"... or "right" and "wrong"... does involve some form of system to establish each category... and ultimately relies on something above your personal wants and needs.
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Post by Vegas on Dec 9, 2019 22:37:40 GMT
You can't style something which isn't there. Neither does one normally describe something by its absence. Shall I relate the type of hobnail boots I don't wear in bed? I am so enjoying this thread. It is both silly and meaningful, also something I enjoy. ...or are we all just splitting hairs?
If so, why?bald' ZING!
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Post by Catman on Dec 9, 2019 22:41:26 GMT
Splitting hares?
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