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Post by Winter_King on Apr 20, 2017 10:21:52 GMT
Yes:
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 20, 2017 10:29:35 GMT
Magic is as real as any deity humanity has imagined. But anyway: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." (A.C.Clarke) Thanks for mentioning that quote by Clarke. I was planning to use it myself on this thread in case no one else did. The reverse to this is "Any sufficiently remote magic is indistinguishable from myth "
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 20, 2017 10:43:08 GMT
Wait! Wait! Got to have a video. Enjoy. <video see OP> I never fail to be surprised by the modern-day monotheist who doesn't regard magic as real, and especially with regard to Christian society in recent years. According to Exodus, did not the Pharaoh's court magician turn a stick into a snake? And the Magi knew of the birth of the Messiah through unconventional means. As I recall they were from the East, probably from Persia. Too bad PD isn't here to contribute on this thread. At the least, he could harp on any mistakes I make, or that which he perceived to be mistakes. Much of early "occult" practice involved drugs, which are real. It is also possible to "psyche" people. That's tried with more and less success all the time, especially in contests. So yes there is all that. That leaves the question whether there are instances where the laws of physics as we understand them can be violated. I doubt those occur and I am quite certain that if they do occur it isn't very often. Maybe the entities capable of violating physics are barred from doing that by some spiritual authority. Maybe they "break out" from time to time or maybe they get permission as Satan against Job. Absolute certainty about anything is never very easy.
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Post by phludowin on Apr 20, 2017 11:10:35 GMT
If it didn't actually work, I doubt that so many prominent personalities throughout history would have bothered fooling with it. My guess: For the same reason people pray. It makes them feel good, even if it doesn't make a difference otherwise.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 20, 2017 11:37:54 GMT
If it didn't actually work, I doubt that so many prominent personalities throughout history would have bothered fooling with it. My guess: For the same reason people pray. It makes them feel good, even if it doesn't make a difference otherwise. I believe many people are atheists because that makes them "feel good" as well. It is amazing how similar people can be. Atheists can be like those people who said we will never have any use for algebra. Since they can't do algebra it makes them feel better to think no one has any use for it. Since atheists can't understand religion they feel better thinking no one has any use for it. And if you're thinking people believe in a god because they can't do algebra, you're wrong. Quit judging all believers by the fundamentalists who can't do algebra, they really aren't religious anyway. The mysteries of god to you are like the mysteries of calculus to some others. You discount them because you don't know how to use them. What I just said on Reddit ... I like science. I'm a big fan. I know that it can be very useful. I'm one of those nerds with a graphing calculator the size of a hoagie sandwich. I also have a graphing calculator app on my cellphone (not as good, but did you know they have those?). I also write web pages for my local disc that solve math and science problems with web scripting. I watch way too much science fiction, excuse me for that. I write online (server side) web pages in Perl, excuse me for that. I'll switch to PHP later maybe. I was (and suppose I still am) a member of the National Forensic League (high school debate organization). Debate isn't exactly "science" but forensics definitely are.
I can tell you that science is not useful for most issues in society. If everyone agrees what the problem is then science often can be of some assistance. With most issues in society there is no such agreement. In fact that's what makes them issues. Science is useless to solve such problems. You need an entirely different approach with entirely different modes of operation. You need politics and religion can advise politics. Religion must advise politics. The people who founded the United States understood that religion must advise politics.
Whenever I see "scientists" putting down religion I know how sad that is. They really don't have any science or religion and need both.
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Post by progressiveelement on Apr 20, 2017 11:47:05 GMT
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Post by Vegas on Apr 20, 2017 12:35:27 GMT
If it didn't actually work, I doubt that so many prominent personalities throughout history would have bothered fooling with it. Do you think that Vishnu is a real entity? So many prominent personalities throughout history.....
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 20, 2017 14:09:18 GMT
That leaves the question whether there are instances where the laws of physics as we understand them can be violated. It more begs the question as to why anyone would imagine that all the laws of physics, as we understand them or not, have been discovered and even can be; or, as science is now wondering, will ever prove capable of including into one overarching theory of everything. What happens, Arlon, is that science continually revises itself and the 'laws' can be amended or introduced in the light of observation, theory and experiment. That's why Einstein had such effect on Newtonian physics, and why I have seen it reckoned we are 'two or three Einsteins' away from the fullest idea of our physical reality, on both the larger and smaller scales. And maybe, just maybe, the well-worn Anthropomorphic Fallacy will have had its day in due course.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 20, 2017 14:17:40 GMT
The mysteries of god to you are like the mysteries of calculus to some others. You discount them because you don't know how to use them. The principal difference being that one knows that calculus is logical and actually exists. One does not discount mathematics because it is thought a delusion or a facet of eternal credulity. They never the less were very keen to keep religion and state entirely separate, and for good reason. They'd seen what happens when religion 'advises' politics only too keenly in the Old World. Science, as has often been observed, has nothing meaningful to say, or wants to say, about religion since nothing religion 'says' is scientific. Quite why a scientist would 'need' the deliberate supernatural probably means more to the faithful than to the others.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Apr 20, 2017 14:22:38 GMT
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Post by Terrapin Station on Apr 20, 2017 14:24:27 GMT
I'd say that the reason that calculus exists is that we invented it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 20, 2017 14:30:33 GMT
I'd say that the reason that calculus exists is that we invented it. That could indeed be the reason, but it would still need some working out...
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Post by Terrapin Station on Apr 20, 2017 14:32:40 GMT
What I just said on Reddit ... I like science. I'm a big fan. I know that it can be very useful. I'm one of those nerds with a graphing calculator the size of a hoagie sandwich. I also have a graphing calculator app on my cellphone (not as good, but did you know they have those?). I also write web pages for my local disc that solve math and science problems with web scripting. I watch way too much science fiction, excuse me for that. I write online (server side) web pages in Perl, excuse me for that. I'll switch to PHP later maybe. I was (and suppose I still am) a member of the National Forensic League (high school debate organization). Debate isn't exactly "science" but forensics definitely are.
I can tell you that science is not useful for most issues in society . . .
I like how you believe that all of that silly boosting-yourself-up crap (as if it really boosts you up and doesn't suggest instead that you're yet another arrogant, educated moron, the arrogance in this case coming from the simple fact that you can do some math and do some simple programming) in the first paragraph gives any weight whatsoever to your opinion in the second paragraph.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Apr 20, 2017 14:33:35 GMT
I'd say that the reason that calculus exists is that we invented it. That could indeed be the reason, but it would still need some working out... I don't believe there is any question about it. What do we need to work out?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 20, 2017 14:39:31 GMT
That could indeed be the reason, but it would still need some working out... I don't believe there is any question about it. What do we need to work out? The calculus, of course!
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Post by maya55555 on Apr 20, 2017 14:49:30 GMT
THE
Thank you for that Polish magic trick.
Was that how it was supposed to work?
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Post by Sulla on Apr 20, 2017 15:03:39 GMT
Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart? How the music can free her whenever it starts? And it's magic if the music is groovy It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll
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Post by general313 on Apr 20, 2017 15:13:14 GMT
My guess: For the same reason people pray. It makes them feel good, even if it doesn't make a difference otherwise. I believe many people are atheists because that makes them "feel good" as well. It is amazing how similar people can be. Does not believing in Apollo make you "feel good"?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 20, 2017 16:32:56 GMT
THE
Thank you for that Polish magic trick.
Was that how it was supposed to work? My guess is that he was supposed to slap her hand down on one of the paper bags WITHOUT the spike in it.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 20, 2017 16:33:52 GMT
Do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart? How the music can free her whenever it starts? And it's magic if the music is groovy It makes you feel happy like an old-time movie I'll tell you about the magic, and it'll free your soul But it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll I've been waiting for you to post with that.
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