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Post by hi224 on Dec 11, 2019 6:08:11 GMT
I am going Goodfellas as well.
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Post by onethreetwo on Dec 11, 2019 6:10:59 GMT
I tapped out an hour and ten minutes into The Irishman. What I saw was okay, but I have no desire to finish it.
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Post by ck100 on Dec 11, 2019 6:27:59 GMT
Goodfellas.
Irishman is good but very overrated.
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Post by jcush on Dec 11, 2019 7:38:59 GMT
I loved The Irishman, but Goodfellas is better.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 7:40:40 GMT
Goodfellas
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Dec 11, 2019 7:42:42 GMT
...is this going to be the new "Goodfellas or Casino?"?
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Dec 11, 2019 7:43:32 GMT
Neither. Scorcese is a great filmmaker, but I've never really cared for his preferred subject matter.
Apart from KUNDUN, THE AGE OF INNOCENCE and SILENCE, he pretty much makes movies about the same thing. Over and over.
I just don't give a flying fuck about East Coast gangsters (even when they're operating in Vegas).
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 7:51:09 GMT
Neither. Scorcese is a great filmmaker, but I've never really cared for his preferred subject matter. Apart from KUNDUN, THE AGE OF INNOCENCE and SILENCE, he pretty much makes movies about the same thing. Over and over.
I just don't give a flying fuck about East Coast gangsters (even when they're operating in Vegas). What about Taxi Driver, The Last Temptation of Christ, Hugo, Shutter Island, Cape Fear, The Color of Money, Bringing Out the Dead, After Hours, The Aviator and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore?
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 11, 2019 8:16:39 GMT
The main thing with Scorsese I notice is that his central character (usually male) never really change or grow. They transform those around them-often for the worse, but they do not change themselves. They never seem to learn anything. That is why I am not surprised he was a fan of PEEPING TOM since the story is about someone with personal dysfunction and an inability to adapt.
The one exception that comes to mind is CAPE FEAR--the daughter changes from something of an air head to mature survivalist and is the catalyst for making her parents also change (presumably for the better).
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 8:43:51 GMT
The main thing with Scorsese I notice is that his central character (usually male) never really change or grow. They transform those around them-often for the worse, but they do not change themselves. They never seem to learn anything. That is why I am not surprised he was a fan of PEEPING TOM since the story is about someone with personal dysfunction and an inability to adapt. The one exception that comes to mind is CAPE FEAR--the daughter changes from something of an air head to mature survivalist and is the catalyst for making her parents also change (presumably for the better). Oh, they change. They just change for the worse. His movies are often about people who's mindset gets more corrupt or crazy as the movie progresses. They show the consequences of not changing for the better.
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Post by miike80 on Dec 11, 2019 8:44:14 GMT
Loved them both, maybe Goodfellas? For now, anyway
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Post by Morgana on Dec 11, 2019 8:51:46 GMT
I liked The Irishman, but Goodfellas is a masterpiece.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 11, 2019 8:55:21 GMT
Oh, they change. They just change for the worse. Right. They never learn anything positive. In a film like The Man Who Would Be King, the two protagonists make many errors and one of them lets power go to his head-but before the end they resolve their differences and accept the fate. It puts a positive spin on the negative (I think one is invited to admire their optimism and spirit, not their outcome).
That doesn't happen in a Scorsese film. There's never an Ishmail (except Cape Fear--maybe because it is a girl so it fits the "progressive" label).
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 9:03:20 GMT
Oh, they change. They just change for the worse. Right. They never learn anything positive. In a film like The Man Who Would Be King, the two protagonists make many errors and one of them lets power go to his head-but before the end they resolve their differences and accept the fate. It puts a positive spin on the negative (I think one is invited to admire their optimism and spirit, not their outcome).
That doesn't happen in a Scorsese film. There's never an Ishmail (except Cape Fear--maybe because it is a girl so it fits the "progressive" label).
That isn't often how reality works though. Most people don't change in any significant way after a certain point. How did Travis Bickle become so misguided? That isn't important to Scorsese. It is showing what happens after the point of no return and the potential consequences of that. They are warnings for the audience. They just aren't done with false optimism.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 11, 2019 9:19:19 GMT
That isn't often how reality works though. Most people don't change in any significant way after a certain point. How did Travis Bickle become so misguided? That isn't important to Scorsese. It is showing what happens after the point of no return and the potential consequences of that. They are warnings for the audience. They just aren't done with false optimism. A movie is fiction not reality.
What warning for the audience? Not to stab someone in the neck with a pen since you might end up beaten with a baseball bat in a pit? This is an exploration of mob culture where the focus of audience attention is always a negative character. There are no positive characters even at the periphery.
It's unlikely the story is going to influence anyone one way or the other when it comes to getting involved in mafia activities. But the lack of any kind of variety in moral perspective suggests a limitation in characterization. In real life you do have characters who show complexity in behavior. I, Claudius is full of depraved characters and yet there are characters who seek to do good even if they fail. It feels like a more thorough exploration of life experience and behavior.
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Post by hi224 on Dec 11, 2019 9:29:39 GMT
Oh, they change. They just change for the worse. Right. They never learn anything positive. In a film like The Man Who Would Be King, the two protagonists make many errors and one of them lets power go to his head-but before the end they resolve their differences and accept the fate. It puts a positive spin on the negative (I think one is invited to admire their optimism and spirit, not their outcome).
That doesn't happen in a Scorsese film. There's never an Ishmail (except Cape Fear--maybe because it is a girl so it fits the "progressive" label).
why is it bad to not have a good spin?.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 9:30:02 GMT
That isn't often how reality works though. Most people don't change in any significant way after a certain point. How did Travis Bickle become so misguided? That isn't important to Scorsese. It is showing what happens after the point of no return and the potential consequences of that. They are warnings for the audience. They just aren't done with false optimism. A movie is fiction not reality.
What warning for the audience? Not to stab someone in the neck with a pen since you might end up beaten with a baseball bat in a pit? This is an exploration of mob culture where the focus of audience attention is always a negative character. There are no positive characters even at the periphery.
It's unlikely the story is going to influence anyone one way or the other when it comes to getting involved in mafia activities. But the lack of any kind of variety in moral perspective suggests a limitation in characterization. In real life you do have characters who show complexity in behavior. I, Claudius is full of depraved characters and yet there are characters who seek to do good even if they fail. It feels like a more thorough exploration of life experience and behavior.
Then I just don't see it that way or I am incapable of seeing it the way you do. I have changed my behavior and thought about consequences to my actions because of movies like these. Very cynical movies can be just as useful as very positive movies. There is room for all kind of movies and many of them serve a purpose for me personally. These are much more than just passing entertainment for me.
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Post by Prime etc. on Dec 11, 2019 9:43:59 GMT
Then I just don't see it that way or I am incapable of seeing it the way you do. I have changed my behavior and thought about consequences to my actions because of movies like these. Very cynical movies can be just as useful as very positive movies. There is room for all kind of movies and many of them serve a purpose for me personally. These are much more than just passing entertainment for me. Haha I am glad he dissuaded you from pimping and selling cocaine.
And to the other question of why it is bad not to have a good spin--I meant it showed the limits of his range (in response to the one who said Scorsese always does the same thing). Cape Fear is the exception--the daughter injures Cady by dousing him with a flammable liquid. She shows more responsibility (she was in trouble for drugs and in summer school and her mother commented at the start that her daughter was too much of an idiot to be related to her).
It seems to me the family gets over some of their trivial disagreements thanks to the Cady experience. It's not a relief ending like the original, but it is different from other Scorsese films in the presentation of character and development.
Scorsese is said to be a fan of EL CID--in that case you have a morally positive character who remains the same from start to finish--it is everyone around him who changes (for the better).
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Post by hi224 on Dec 11, 2019 9:52:03 GMT
...is this going to be the new " Goodfellas or Casino?"? well lets pray not.
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Post by moviemouth on Dec 11, 2019 9:53:54 GMT
Then I just don't see it that way or I am incapable of seeing it the way you do. I have changed my behavior and thought about consequences to my actions because of movies like these. Very cynical movies can be just as useful as very positive movies. There is room for all kind of movies and many of them serve a purpose for me personally. These are much more than just passing entertainment for me. Haha I am glad he dissuaded you from pimping and selling cocaine.
I am talking about watching other characters making bad decisions. Not the specifics of the situations. He is just using gangsters to show it in this case, in Taxi Driver he shows a cab driver doing it, in King of Comedy he shows a wannabe comedian do it, in Raging Bull a boxer etc. They show a window into another world and cause me to reflect on my own behavior and the behavior of others through the stories he tells.
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