senan90
Junior Member
@senan90
Posts: 1,452
Likes: 546
|
Post by senan90 on Dec 31, 2019 17:35:10 GMT
Come on merh, didn't you know that studying philosophy, religion, anthropology and politics makes you a good writer/director.
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1,780
|
Post by shinnickneth on Dec 31, 2019 20:43:24 GMT
Come on merh, didn't you know that studying philosophy, religion, anthropology and politics makes you a good writer/director. It definitely doesn't hurt to understand aspects of your own world before you dive into writing/creating a fictitious one.
|
|
|
Post by merh on Jan 6, 2020 13:44:59 GMT
I find the esteem the fans of the prequels hold him in unfathomable. He made some good movies. Tristan tries to sell
Lucas studied philosophy, mythology and religion and created his pulpy Star Wars universe out of it. JJ Abrams studied Lucas and rehashed him. What about that statement do you find untrue? The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep.
|
|
|
Post by merh on Jan 6, 2020 13:48:36 GMT
Come on merh, didn't you know that studying philosophy, religion, anthropology and politics makes you a good writer/director. It definitely doesn't hurt to understand aspects of your own world before you dive into writing/creating a fictitious one. He was making a fun flick. The sort of movie Disney would make when Walt was alive. It's like people are trying to make this something like a concept album when it's more Poison "Ain't Lookin For Nothing but a Good Time.".
|
|
|
Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 6, 2020 15:58:15 GMT
What about that statement do you find untrue? The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep. True. But this is where the term “shades of grey” comes into play. Lucas was making summer popcorn flicks. But he was also making layered storytelling in Star Wars. So these popcorn flicks did center around real mythological themes and religious & political motifs. As this guy says in the first 2 or 3 minutes of his video, “Don’t confuse the intent with the outcome”. In the case of SW “deep” is a relative term. Nothing about it is “Citizen Kane, Syriana, or Schindler’s List” deep. But again, he built a culture into this popcorn flick saga that was centered around some motifs and mythos based on his personal studies of scholar Joseph Campbell. I’m not going to attempt to put words in Tristan's Journal ‘s mouth. So I can’t say he was suggesting that Lucas is an actual scholar or not. But I will see it for the “grey thing” that it is. His personal studies of those things don’t make him a scholar or a genius. But they are part of the real substance of SW and it’s lore. And they do have merit. Lucas has turned that passion for his personal studies into one of the best filmograpy and cinematography libraries in the world: the (Lucasfilm) Skywalker Ranch library. And it’s been used by producers all over the industry. That includes producers of the SW animated series. And yes, filmmakers like JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson. starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rian_JohnsonThe Last Jedi
Pre-production
This is my first studio movie and my first experience doing anything approaching this kind of scale and scope—both in terms of the film itself and in terms of the process: the amount of people and the amount of money involved. So I didn't know what to expect. But this was one of the most pleasurable writing experiences that I've had, for some odd reason. That pressure never actually came into play, and I found I was able to very naturally sync into this world—to play in it and feel it out. It felt fun. Writing never feels fun. It was very unusual. This was not the typical self-doubt and torture. This was a bizarrely pleasurable writing experience. RIAN JOHNSON Following the release of Looper, his third feature film, Rian Johnson had a general meeting with Kathleen Kennedy, Lucasfilm's then-new president. After being called in for a second meeting, Johnson was offered to direct Episode VIII of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Johnson was shocked, and after putting thought into the offer, he accepted, and Bergman was again brought on as a producer. Johnson then met with Star Wars screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan, co-writer of Star Wars: Episode VII The Force Awakens, and he met with Rick Carter, co-production designer of The Force Awakens, having a week-long story session. Weeks later, Johnson and Ram Bergman toured the Skywalker Ranch archives, where they examined Star Wars props, costumes and art. In the Skywalker Ranch library, Johnson found the World War II book Vertical Warfare, which inspired the opening bombing-run sequence of the film.[2] By early summer of 2014, Johnson was deep in the writing process. He started by analyzing each of the characters from The Force Awakens and determining what would challenge them the most. That understanding formed his foundation for the story and set pieces. Throughout July, Johnson scheduled a series of films to be screened for Episode VIII's cast and crew. The titles selected each represented a tone or aspect he wished to convey. The series included the samurai film Three Outlaw Samurai, the Soviet drama Letter Never Sent, the World War II film Twelve O'Clock High, the war epic The Bridge on the River Kwai, the adventure film Gunga Din, the romantic thriller To Catch a Thief, and the war drama Sahara. During the screening series, Johnson was invited to join the informal Intellectual Property Development Group to help visualize the Force-bond between Rey and Kylo Ren. Johnson had a minimalist approach, and they decided to simply intercut between Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver. By August, Johnson had completed the basic story, and he shared his ideas with production designer Rick Heinrichs. In a late addition to the script, Johnson added the three flashback scenes to add more character motivation, taking inspiration from the Japanese film Rashomon. His first draft of the script was completed by the end of 2014, with the title Star Wars: Episode VIII The Last Jedi.[2]
|
|
|
Post by johnspartan on Jan 6, 2020 16:06:36 GMT
What about that statement do you find untrue? The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep. Dumb SW haters like you just don't "get" Star Wars 1977.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 16:10:23 GMT
The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep. Dumb SW haters like you just don't "get" Star Wars 1977. I love that argument. Like there's anything to "get" in these movies.... I love Star Wars, but they are not deep/philosophical films.
|
|
|
Post by johnspartan on Jan 6, 2020 16:14:29 GMT
Dumb SW haters like you just don't "get" Star Wars 1977. I love that argument. Like there's anything to "get" in these movies.... I love Star Wars, but they are not deep/philosophical films. You didn't notice, but it's there. SW is interpreted in many different ways depending on the viewer.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 16:19:28 GMT
I love that argument. Like there's anything to "get" in these movies.... I love Star Wars, but they are not deep/philosophical films. You didn't notice, but it's there. SW is interpreted in many different ways depending on the viewer. If it can be interpreted different ways, there's nothing to "get". Having to "get" it implies there's only one way to see it.
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1,780
|
Post by shinnickneth on Jan 6, 2020 16:22:07 GMT
The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep.George Lucas (and many fans) would disagree with that statement. Disney made the soul-less version of Star Wars where everything is by the numbers and a spectacle. i.e. Lots of spaceships, cute creatures, "witty" one liners, etc. What they didn't realize is, "That there's more to it than that" as George Lucas said in that Charlie Rose interview. You can't just cram a bunch of spaceships into the movie and call it a day. There's actually deep messages within Lucas' 6 movies.
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1,780
|
Post by shinnickneth on Jan 6, 2020 16:27:03 GMT
He was making a fun flick. The sort of movie Disney would make when Walt was alive.It's like people are trying to make this something like a concept album when it's more Poison "Ain't Lookin For Nothing but a Good Time.". I would agree with that - at least with Episode 4 and maybe 5. 6 would have been too sexual for what Walt would have wanted to put out in his day. Walt Disney was a visionary too, especially with the creation of Disneyland (everyone laughed/shook their heads at him thinking it would be a huge failure). The days of Walt's creativity are way over at Disney, unfortunately...
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 16:36:42 GMT
There's actually deep messages within Lucas' 6 movies. Provide an example of a "deep" message in a Star Wars movie.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 6, 2020 19:27:44 GMT
The phrasing seems to suggest he majored in those subjects & put serious effort into making the movie into something deep & meaningful. He was making a popcorn summer flick. Not really all that deep.George Lucas (and many fans) would disagree with that statement. Disney made the soul-less version of Star Wars where everything is by the numbers and a spectacle. i.e. Lots of spaceships, cute creatures, "witty" one liners, etc. What they didn't realize is, " That there's more to it than that" as George Lucas said in that Charlie Rose interview. You can't just cram a bunch of spaceships into the movie and call it a day. There's actually deep messages within Lucas' 6 movies. you bet. The most beautiful thing about Star wars is: even if one does not get the spiritual themes, moral tales and the political-dystopian substance (as many do not), you can still be a huge fan of the action, art design and explosions. The former aspects makes Star Wars deeper than most other blockbuster franchises, the latter make it more entertaining.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 20:01:15 GMT
even if one does not get the spiritual themes, moral tales and the political-dystopian substance (as many do not) Orrrrr.... Maybe one "gets" them perfectly, and still thinks they're lame. It's not that complex, dude....
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 6, 2020 21:00:42 GMT
even if one does not get the spiritual themes, moral tales and the political-dystopian substance (as many do not) Orrrrr.... Maybe one "gets" them perfectly, and still thinks they're lame.It's not that complex, dude.... personally, I do not see how that conclusion could be reached within the context of modern blockbuster entertainment (not: classic literature, politics or philosophy) considering that these films are unusually rich in themes, substance and storytelling. I mean these are frequently called modern mythology, with good reason. The films inter alia cover: - the heroes journey and the tragic-heroes journey (Luke in Jedi) - the corruption and downfall of heroes (the villain's journey) - redemption through love - the systematic dismantling of liberty/democracy and the rise of strong-man demagogues - the inability to let go and destroying the thing one loves - overcoming your advisors and taking the lead (Luke in VI, Padme in I) - spiritual aspects like the Force (living Force, cosmic Force etc) - the triumph of evil when civil forces fail to name a few. This is not your typical paint-by-numbers clobber porn. But again: Even if one does not get or appreciate the themes and substance of it, these films are still masterworks of design, sound and motion. There are no fake fans, only real ones.
|
|
|
Post by johnspartan on Jan 6, 2020 21:02:47 GMT
He was making a fun flick. The sort of movie Disney would make when Walt was alive.It's like people are trying to make this something like a concept album when it's more Poison "Ain't Lookin For Nothing but a Good Time.". I would agree with that - at least with Episode 4 and maybe 5. 6 would have been too sexual for what Walt would have wanted to put out in his day. Walt Disney was a visionary too, especially with the creation of Disneyland (everyone laughed/shook their heads at him thinking it would be a huge failure). The days of Walt's creativity are way over at Disney, unfortunately... Also Walt wouldn't include limb dismemberment and violence but all that mixed with original Disney wholesomeness are the magic ingrediants of Star Wars. Weird how only Favreau understands this.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 21:30:58 GMT
Orrrrr.... Maybe one "gets" them perfectly, and still thinks they're lame.It's not that complex, dude.... personally, I do not see how that conclusion could be reached within the context of modern blockbuster entertainment (not: classic literature, politics or philosophy) considering that these films are unusually rich in themes, substance and storytelling. I mean these are frequently called modern mythology, with good reason. The films inter alia cover: - the heroes journey and the tragic-heroes journey (Luke in Jedi) - the corruption and downfall of heroes (the villain's journey) - redemption through love - the systematic dismantling of liberty/democracy and the rise of strong-man demagogues - the inability to let go and destroying the thing one loves - overcoming your advisors and taking the lead (Luke in VI, Padme in I) - spiritual aspects like the Force (living Force, cosmic Force etc) - the triumph of evil when civil forces fail to name a few. This is not your typical paint-by-numbers clobber porn. But again: Even if one does not get or appreciate the themes and substance of it, these films are still masterworks of design, sound and motion. There are no fake fans, only real ones. I suppose you'd find the "Ring theory" for the prequels to be deep and complex as well?
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1,780
|
Post by shinnickneth on Jan 6, 2020 22:18:03 GMT
Provide an example of a "deep" message in a Star Wars movie. Huh. I'm actually surprised to see you arguing otherwise, Jan. I could build off of what Tristan's Journal already stated, but I think I'll just pass after reading the back-and-forth going on in regards to this topic.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 6, 2020 23:01:37 GMT
Provide an example of a "deep" message in a Star Wars movie. Huh. I'm actually surprised to see you arguing otherwise, Jan. I could build off of what Tristan's Journal already stated, but I think I'll just pass after reading the back-and-forth going on in regards to this topic. Tristan's list is pretty basic stuff. Good points to be sure, but I'm not sure what's particularly deep about any of those things. That said, the simple inclusion of those things doesn't in and of itself make a movie good. That's like me telling you that you should like The Last Jedi simply because it did something different. The idea that all people would like the prequels if they "got" them is absurd. Many people get them (again, they're not rocket science) and still don't like them....
|
|
|
Post by merh on Jan 7, 2020 1:22:11 GMT
Come on merh, didn't you know that studying philosophy, religion, anthropology and politics makes you a good writer/director. I suspect my 4 yrs of Seminary in Utah is more religious study that Lucas ever did in school. At least I scored A's all 4 yrs.
|
|