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Post by wolf359 on Jan 15, 2020 0:49:37 GMT
As of Today, What do you yourself think are the Top 3 BIGGEST Problems with "STAR WARS" right now ?
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Post by dazz on Jan 15, 2020 2:18:32 GMT
#1 Kathleen Kennedy
Not suited for the position, ignorant to the brand, disrespectful to it also to a degree.
#2 Tied - The Fandom Menace & The Fans Of The New Movies
Both are as bad as one another, whether it is sexist & racist idiots, who refuse to see any of the potential the new movies had, or the insecure morons who cannot defend the thing they like without having to revert to calling anyone who doesn't lap up the new shit as being racist and sexist, either way fuck the lot of you, you are the minority of the fanbase but are either treated as though you are the majority or act like it, you aren't, not saying theres no room for disagreements or arguments even but I mean neither side add any value to any conversation, so again fuck em I say.
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Post by wolf359 on Jan 15, 2020 2:55:04 GMT
1. The Fandom Menace
2. Kathleen Kennedy
3. Rian Johnson
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Post by darkpast on Jan 15, 2020 3:32:49 GMT
Kennedy
No GL
Fandom Menace / Access Media MSM (Tie)
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jan 15, 2020 3:43:03 GMT
Fandom Menace.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 15, 2020 4:25:39 GMT
The Fans - never happy. Moving forward, a word of advice: don't let the internet be your guide.
Disney - Originally I picked "the crew" but I guess they're all under the same roof now. Chart a course, stick to it.
Baby Yoda - Not the character itself necessarily but the merchandising implications with the character.
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Post by wolf359 on Jan 15, 2020 4:26:56 GMT
The Fans - never happy. Moving forward, a word of advice: don't let the internet be your guide.
Disney - Originally I picked "the crew" but I guess they're all under the same roof now. Chart a course, stick to it.
Baby Yoda - Not the character itself necessarily but the merchandising implications with the character.
When you say "The Fans", Do you mean The Fans that like the Movies or do you mean The Fandom Menace ?
or do you mean both ?
Also, I myself cannot blame "The Crew" or "The Cast" at all.
They were all only doing their jobs and following the instructions from Kennedy, Abrams, and Johnson.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 15, 2020 4:29:04 GMT
The Fans - never happy. Moving forward, a word of advice: don't let the internet be your guide.
Disney - Originally I picked "the crew" but I guess they're all under the same roof now. Chart a course, stick to it.
Baby Yoda - Not the character itself necessarily but the merchandising implications with the character.
When you say "The Fans", Do you mean The Fans that like the Movies or do you mean The Fandom Menace ?
or do you mean both ?
In general. Not even Disney, lord knows they weren't angels when the prequels came out.
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Post by darkpast on Jan 15, 2020 4:34:14 GMT
Baby Yoda - Not the character itself necessarily but the merchandising implications with the character. 
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 15, 2020 12:20:30 GMT
Simple:
1. Disney who rushed the creative process (we even have an admission by CEO) to compensate for their overpriced deal and have no guiding vision - example: TFA, TLJ (first draft), Solo and TROS.
2. KK as head/director of LF - she seems not to be a good leader (house divided, director disasters), has no real reverence for the source material (SW), and seems to inject her politics in a cumbersome and amateurish way. However, with the right people she can do solid to good (ie R1 and Mando)
3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)
4. JJ Abrams who is an unoriginal and uncreative hack who seems only to work when rehashing and diminishing the previous chapters
The rest is history living on in infamy.
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Post by Winter_King on Jan 15, 2020 12:29:58 GMT
Disney of course.
In the end, they own the franchise.
They really to set up a road map if you're making a trilogy which clearly they didn't have for this one.
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Post by wolf359 on Jan 15, 2020 15:17:27 GMT
Simple: 1. Disney who rushed the creative process (we even have an admission by CEO) to compensate for their overpriced deal and have no guiding vision - example: TFA, TLJ (first draft), Solo and TROS. 2. KK as head/director of LF - she seems not to be a good leader (house divided, director disasters), has no real reverence for the source material (SW), and seems to inject her politics in a cumbersome and amateurish way. However, with the right people she can do solid to good (ie R1 and Mando) 3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!) 4. JJ Abrams who is an unoriginal and uncreative hack who seems only to work when rehashing and diminishing the previous chapters The rest is history living on in infamy.
"3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)" --------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back.
When it comes to a Business that gets insulted and disrespected by a Customer.....The Customer is NEVER Right!
Usually The Customer then gets kicked out and told that they are no longer welcome there at that Business!
Anybody who thinks otherwise is only looking at it in a completely unfair and 1 sided way where they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.
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Post by dazz on Jan 15, 2020 15:35:30 GMT
Simple: 1. Disney who rushed the creative process (we even have an admission by CEO) to compensate for their overpriced deal and have no guiding vision - example: TFA, TLJ (first draft), Solo and TROS. 2. KK as head/director of LF - she seems not to be a good leader (house divided, director disasters), has no real reverence for the source material (SW), and seems to inject her politics in a cumbersome and amateurish way. However, with the right people she can do solid to good (ie R1 and Mando) 3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!) 4. JJ Abrams who is an unoriginal and uncreative hack who seems only to work when rehashing and diminishing the previous chapters The rest is history living on in infamy.
"3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)" --------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back.
When it comes to a Business that gets insulted and disrespected by a Customer.....The Customer is NEVER Right!
Usually The Customer then gets kicked out and told that they are no longer welcome there at that Business!
Anybody who thinks otherwise is only looking at it in a way where they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.
Actually they don't, I think most reasonable people acknowledge the initial wave of toxic hatred Disney and TLJ's cast and crew got, calling out that toxic cesspool of humanity was fine, but what people have issue with is Lucasfilm and RJ labelling any criticism of the movie as the same thing as those vile pieces of shit, this is something every Disney SW apologist ignores, anyone who sent racist tweets to KMT deserved to be called out, anyone whose gripe with the new trilogy is that "bah a girl can nut be a Jedi, they iz 2 stooped 2 be tha Jedi" deserve to be called out for it, people who criticise the lazy or outright dumb writing of the stories, poor characters, or dislike the "mary sue" nature of Rey for actual reasons besides her gender, they don't deserve to be called racist or sexist, yet that is the environment Lucasfilm by their handling of the situation created which is evident to this day.
There is a difference between defending yourself against mindless hatred and defaming anyone who doesn't verbally fellate you, and Lucasfilm did the latter, all the while never addressing the actual criticisms of their product and stories.
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Post by wolf359 on Jan 15, 2020 15:44:30 GMT
"3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)" --------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back.
When it comes to a Business that gets insulted and disrespected by a Customer.....The Customer is NEVER Right!
Usually The Customer then gets kicked out and told that they are no longer welcome there at that Business!
Anybody who thinks otherwise is only looking at it in a way where they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.
Actually they don't, I think most reasonable people acknowledge the initial wave of toxic hatred Disney and TLJ's cast and crew got, calling out that toxic cesspool of humanity was fine, but what people have issue with is Lucasfilm and RJ labelling any criticism of the movie as the same thing as those vile pieces of shit, this is something every Disney SW apologist ignores, anyone who sent racist tweets to KMT deserved to be called out, anyone whose gripe with the new trilogy is that "bah a girl can nut be a Jedi, they iz 2 stooped 2 be tha Jedi" deserve to be called out for it, people who criticise the lazy or outright dumb writing of the stories, poor characters, or dislike the "mary sue" nature of Rey for actual reasons besides her gender, they don't deserve to be called racist or sexist, yet that is the environment Lucasfilm by their handling of the situation created which is evident to this day.
There is a difference between defending yourself against mindless hatred and defaming anyone who doesn't verbally fellate you, and Lucasfilm did the latter, all the while never addressing the actual criticisms of their product and stories.
Actually They Do!
DISNEY does have every right to defend themselves and fight back and I'm Glad that They Know It!
I Stand with Them on This Subject!
Having said that....
LOL, I don't know about you but I can actually already tell that we are not gonna agree on this subject no matter what.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 15, 2020 15:48:30 GMT
Simple: 1. Disney who rushed the creative process (we even have an admission by CEO) to compensate for their overpriced deal and have no guiding vision - example: TFA, TLJ (first draft), Solo and TROS. 2. KK as head/director of LF - she seems not to be a good leader (house divided, director disasters), has no real reverence for the source material (SW), and seems to inject her politics in a cumbersome and amateurish way. However, with the right people she can do solid to good (ie R1 and Mando) 3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!) 4. JJ Abrams who is an unoriginal and uncreative hack who seems only to work when rehashing and diminishing the previous chapters The rest is history living on in infamy.
"3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)" --------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back.
When it comes to a Business that gets insulted and disrespected by a Customer.....The Customer is NEVER Right!
Usually The Customer then gets kicked out and told that they are no longer welcome there at that Business!
Anybody who thinks otherwise is only looking at it in a completely unfair and 1 sided way where they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.
respectfully, it is irrelevant who started it. The customer is always right is a reasonable online policy because: 1. They pay with their wallet. 2. Somebody in B2C got to be the professional. 2. If you insult back or generalize you offend not just the offenders but the entire fan base. The Last Jedi backlash got aggravated by how some employees handled the situation online, calling fans names etc which infuriated the moderate base too, and it all escalated over time. Look at Lucas, he rolled with the punches, and punches he took aplenty. The criminal offenders you can report to authorities anyway.
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Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 15, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back. Ahhh. The old "he started, mommy!" argument.... There are tactful ways for a person/company to defend themselves that does not involve labeling/name-calling. Going that route only serves to sink to the level of trolls. That said, I feel the claims of Disney/Lucasfilm actually doing this are exaggerated. The only person I've seen actually do this is Rian Johnson. Most of the other insults towards fans seem to be spin by the media and not things actually said by Lucasfilm employees.
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Post by dazz on Jan 15, 2020 17:29:51 GMT
Actually they don't, I think most reasonable people acknowledge the initial wave of toxic hatred Disney and TLJ's cast and crew got, calling out that toxic cesspool of humanity was fine, but what people have issue with is Lucasfilm and RJ labelling any criticism of the movie as the same thing as those vile pieces of shit, this is something every Disney SW apologist ignores, anyone who sent racist tweets to KMT deserved to be called out, anyone whose gripe with the new trilogy is that "bah a girl can nut be a Jedi, they iz 2 stooped 2 be tha Jedi" deserve to be called out for it, people who criticise the lazy or outright dumb writing of the stories, poor characters, or dislike the "mary sue" nature of Rey for actual reasons besides her gender, they don't deserve to be called racist or sexist, yet that is the environment Lucasfilm by their handling of the situation created which is evident to this day.
There is a difference between defending yourself against mindless hatred and defaming anyone who doesn't verbally fellate you, and Lucasfilm did the latter, all the while never addressing the actual criticisms of their product and stories.
Actually They Do!
DISNEY does have every right to defend themselves and fight back and I'm Glad that They Know It!
I Stand with Them on This Subject!
Having said that....
LOL, I don't know about you but I can actually already tell that we are not gonna agree on this subject no matter what.
Obviously because you a fucking ignorant.
Notice I never said they can not defend their films, I said HOW the defended TLJ was bullshit, because they didn't JUST label the racist and sexist idiots as such, they grouped ANY criticism of the movie in with those racist and sexist idiots, they insulted innocent people by labelling them horrendous things and mobilising their sycophantic army to disparage and degrade those who do not praise their films, which persists to this very day 2 years later.
No one with a functioning brain is going to say they were out of line calling out the racist's for their treatment of KMT or the sexists for their ignorant hatred to the female cast, but Lucasfilm went far beyond that, they labelled EVERYONE who didn't blow RJ and KK for TLJ as the same people who harassed KMT, those who harassed and still do harass RJ also deserve the shit also imo, I hate TLJ and I think RJ as Jeremy Jahns said also is no where near as clever as he thinks he is, but I have never once sent a tweet or email to him or anyone else trying to harass him, I come on here and I say my piece and that's it, otherwise fuck it who cares, but again because I do not suck his fucking cock like some people because of how Lucasfilm and RJ tried to excuse the shit show that was TLJ I will get lumped in with those fucking idiots who harass him, I do not like the movie, it doesn't mean I fucking cyber stalk him and constantly tweet or dm him insulting and offensive bullshit because of it, but that's the narrative Lucasfilm and RJ have tried to create, guess what every property has this shit to an extent, not every property starts crying and whining about how they are being bullied and anyone that doesn't tell them they are special are said bullies.
Keep knoshing them off and spouting the "They had to defend themselves" excuse all you want but it's bollocks, the fandom still supports SW in the comics, books, games and TV shows, it's just the movies that get flack, wonder why? maybe because Kennedy has minimal interest in anything but the movies? because the other properties outside the movies are being given to people who actually respect SW?
But yeah we wont agree because your argument is overly simplified rubbish, and you are too ignorant to look beyond the predetermined opinion you are unwilling to shift on, which is a reoccurring theme with you.
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Post by dazz on Jan 15, 2020 17:49:07 GMT
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back. Ahhh. The old "he started, mommy!" argument.... There are tactful ways for a person/company to defend themselves that does not involve labeling/name-calling. Going that route only serves to sink to the level of trolls. That said, I feel the claims of Disney/Lucasfilm actually doing this are exaggerated. The only person I've seen actually do this is Rian Johnson. Most of the other insults towards fans seem to be spin by the media and not things actually said by Lucasfilm employees. This could be true but I think the thing is the implication of their behaviour, Lucasfilm not denouncing RJ doing this stuff and clearly showing hey this is him not us saying this stuff implies they are ok with what he is saying, sort of like a parent who just watches their kid slap another child or start throwing stuff in a shop, their silence and allowing it to continue is a silent approval of the kids behaviour, though you are likely right it got blown up a lot more but you know not only the quiet approval of RJ's statements and such, but their continued public support of RJ to supposedly make more movies sends a clear kind of message right?
I mean wasn't this the excuse Disney and others had at removing James Gunn from GOTG 3 because someone brought up tasteless jokes he made a decade earlier, as the company couldn't be seen as to be supporting such behaviour, I mean if that's the line of BS fine, but then doesn't that apply across the board? by not canning RJ outright weren't they saying they support his reactions to the fans?
I mean in all this time couldn't they have just outright said that they do not condone the labelling of the fans who didn't like TLJ as all that shit, that whilst some were extreme in their dislike towards the movie and in some cases unrelated to the quality of the movie most criticism came from a genuine place and they respect their fans opinions, and so long as it is done respectfully they encourage any opinion about SW and TLJ to be shared? unless they did and I missed it, did I miss that?
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Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 15, 2020 18:02:58 GMT
Ahhh. The old "he started, mommy!" argument.... There are tactful ways for a person/company to defend themselves that does not involve labeling/name-calling. Going that route only serves to sink to the level of trolls. That said, I feel the claims of Disney/Lucasfilm actually doing this are exaggerated. The only person I've seen actually do this is Rian Johnson. Most of the other insults towards fans seem to be spin by the media and not things actually said by Lucasfilm employees. This could be true but I think the thing is the implication of their behaviour, Lucasfilm not denouncing RJ doing this stuff and clearly showing hey this is him not us saying this stuff implies they are ok with what he is saying, sort of like a parent who just watches their kid slap another child or start throwing stuff in a shop, their silence and allowing it to continue is a silent approval of the kids behaviour, though you are likely right it got blown up a lot more but you know not only the quiet approval of RJ's statements and such, but their continued public support of RJ to supposedly make more movies sends a clear kind of message right? That's true. We'll see if RJ still gets another project with them.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 15, 2020 18:28:09 GMT
"3. Unbridled LF-employees who insult the customer base (cardinal commercial sin!)" --------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The Fans (who later became "The Fandom Menace") started it by insulting and disrespecting them.
EVERYBODY ALWAYS NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT!!!
Those employees have every right in the world to defend themselves and fight back.
When it comes to a Business that gets insulted and disrespected by a Customer.....The Customer is NEVER Right!
Usually The Customer then gets kicked out and told that they are no longer welcome there at that Business!
Anybody who thinks otherwise is only looking at it in a way where they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.
Actually they don't, I think most reasonable people acknowledge the initial wave of toxic hatred Disney and TLJ's cast and crew got, calling out that toxic cesspool of humanity was fine, but what people have issue with is Lucasfilm and RJ labelling any criticism of the movie as the same thing as those vile pieces of shit, this is something every Disney SW apologist ignores, anyone who sent racist tweets to KMT deserved to be called out, anyone whose gripe with the new trilogy is that "bah a girl can nut be a Jedi, they iz 2 stooped 2 be tha Jedi" deserve to be called out for it, people who criticise the lazy or outright dumb writing of the stories, poor characters, or dislike the "mary sue" nature of Rey for actual reasons besides her gender, they don't deserve to be called racist or sexist, yet that is the environment Lucasfilm by their handling of the situation created which is evident to this day.
There is a difference between defending yourself against mindless hatred and defaming anyone who doesn't verbally fellate you, and Lucasfilm did the latter, all the while never addressing the actual criticisms of their product and stories.
That encapsulates what Disney Lucasfilm did. And that’s the heart of the problem. I agree with your complete take on this. And because Disney chose not to differentiate between bigoted trolls who verbally bullied their cast, crew and product -and- fans who voiced on-topic critique or disappointment about something... it has only created another dynamic and escalated the problem.(As some others have pointed out, no other studio has ever done this. Not Warner Bros. wit Batman vs Superman compls. Not when complaints over recent Terminator installment. Etc) And what’s been the result of them taking this position? I have no problem with any Star Wars fan loving whatever they love about particular SW (Disney or otherwise) and defending it. In fact it’s great when fans have passion even if it’s for some part that you don’t share with them. But some Disney SW fans parroted the “labeling and generalization” behavior. “Fanboy Tears” mugs. The “You’re a racist, you’re a misogynist, you’re a man-baby if you didn’t like anything about any of these movies” declarations. And the feeling that they are justified in taking this position. To illustrate this another way... suppose there is a popular art museum. Suppose a few patrons loudly shout verbal insults about a particular artists work, encourage others not to support it, and threaten to deface the works? It would be reasonable to defend the museum against those patrons and even physically remove them if necessary. Now suppose there are patrons who are viewing and expressing their critical opinions (both good and bad) about some of the art. Suddenly a staff member or zealous fan of the artist verbally scorns anyone who expresses anything not totally complimentary. Then they chide them to the point of trying to make them feel that they shouldn’t be a patron of the arts. The latter behavior, if anything, would start galvanizing people treated that way to take a bonded position against it. Maybe even to the point of... boycotting! So while some Disney SW fans may rally to defend and join the stance of the topic, and have actually been galvanized by it. It has actually done the same for those that they are targeting. Some of those they targeted were formerly neutral or critical of the Fandom Menace. But have now joined it because of how they got labeled and treated by Disney.
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