Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 15, 2020 23:53:13 GMT
And we're back. What does it say about a group of tv shows you watch when you don't miss them when they're not playing for four glorious weeks; and you're actually kind of reluctant to get back into it?
I also find it hilarious that a major event like Crisis concluded nearly 24 hours ago and no one on here has posted anything about it. I haven't even accidentally come across any spoilers; no major exclamations of "Arrowverse forever changed by Crisis on Infinite Earths!" or "What does X plot development mean for the future of DC/CW Shows?".
Meanwhile when Doctor Who premiered two weeks ago and in the 24-36 hours it took for me get around to watching that, I came across half a dozen posts on Facebook and videos on youtube that, without explicitly saying so, made it clear that
That to me, I think, is a spoiler unto itself, after a fashion; the fact that there was no major, earth(s) shattering outcome to Crisis to report or for people to comment on really sets the bar for my expectations going in this and that I doubt anything of consequence is going to come out of the last two episodes. Which I'm not even going to watch back to back, because I honestly don't feel like it. I'm going to try to get to the last one sometime later today, but definitely not right after part four; baring some improbable cliffhanger that's just too good not to see how it concludes.
So here we go....
Okay, so they're combining the Monitor's origin story with the Maltusian Krona from the comics. I can dig it, actually.
For those who don't know, in the comics, the ancient people of Maltus were one of the first advanced, sentient lifeforms to spring up in the universe. One of their scientists, Krona, was obsessed with studying the dawn of time and witnessing how the universe was formed; in spite of legends that attempting to do so would be catastrophic. His experiments caused time to fracture at the dawn of time, creating the multiverse; where there was originally supposed to only be a single universe.
A segment of the Maltusians, I believe at least partly driven by a sense of responsibility to the universe for this incident, would evolve to become the Guardians of the universe, who would go on to eventually form the Green Lantern Corp.
Conversely, in the comic the Monitor was basically just some random entity that somehow evolved on the moon of Maltus or Oa; I kind of forget why and don't feel like looking it up. But he was just some super, lone naked dude, hanging out on this moon and came to learn about his doppelganger in the Anti-Monitor universe. Somehow they battled across the divide between dimensions and the fight forced them both into a state of suspended animation; until Parriah's experiments awoken the Anti-monitor (if I'm not mistaken, as a result of accidentally destroying his own universe, which somehow fed power to the Anti-monitor; and gave AM the idea to destroy the other universes in the multiverse).
While Krona is conventionally a villain, all in all this works well; merging Krona with the Monitor. Especially since there's still an antagonist element with the Anti-Monitor.
Hmmm.... I can't help but wonder if they intentionally lit this scene so that Mar Novu's wife would be cast in a blue light that makes it look like she has blue skin, reminiscent of the blue skin Maltusians have (eventually anyway).
I'll admit, this opening sequence isn't bad. The appearance at the end of the Anti-Monitor felt a little hokey, but if they can keep the momentum of the first few minutes going, they might pull it off.
Okay, so I'm pretty sure Ryan Choi didn't have a beard in the last episode, which I'm taking to suggest they've been stuck at Vanishing Point for a while; and the main thing I have to say is, i would have given just about anything is they just had all of the "Paragons" have beards. Ryan, Lex, J'Onnn Kara, Kate, Sara. Just like, fuck it, it's been a month and we've all got beards.
I laughed a little about Ryan writing that "the Paragon of Destiny doesn't even believe in tomorrow anymore." and it's like, you know.... you are at the end of time, so......
Wait, so when Lex replaced Superman, somehow part of Superman's cape got left behind; and Kara randomly walks around with it from time to time?
"There is not there out there anymore..." You know, that's actually a good point. Vanishing Point is at the end of time for "Earth" 1; or rather the universe that Earth 1 resides in.... which was destroyed... the entire universe..... from beginning to end....So how the fuck is there still a Vanishing Point?
I mean, I know that it was, originally, like a time-frozen base hovering at the instant before the end of time, but in this scenario the Time Masters who maintained all of this tech and the base are gone, the base itself is in ruins; what's keep it....preserved or whatever? For that matter, how is there even enough air, water or food to sustain anyone there for any length of time?
Man, Barry just keeps bouncing off of walls, doesn't he?
Hey, look at that, it's all of Oliver's greatest hits....
"Why would you make me re-live all of that?"
Even Oliver Queen lost interest in re-watching the vast majority of Arrow....
Gee, I wonder why Oliver's talking all funny... I bet it's nothing.
The reveal of Oliver to the "Paragons" would have been a lot more worthy of rally music they're playing under this scene, if they hadn't fucking just shown us him getting ready to go and meet with them....
"I am Oliver Queen, but I'm also something more...."
Come on, you've been unintentionally building to this moment of actually making the whole "something else" line an actually important part of the show and you're going pull you're punches now?
As has been brought up with the past installments, the whole Oliver becomes the Spectre thing is fine, but honestly, in typical Arrow fashion the execution is seriously wanting. They could have spent the first fucking 7 or 8 episodes doing a proper build up to that. Defy all expectations by killing off Oliver during the very first episode of the season, maybe right in the opening, and make it seem like his journey over the next couple of episodes was about him and his friends trying to bring him back to life; weaving in the retrospective element, only to subvert it with the reveal of him becoming the Spectre instead.
Maybe throw in one last heroic act, where Oliver has the chance to go back, but sacrifices that opportunity to give someone else he meets along the way the chance to be brought back instead - fuck, maybe Mia. Either she dies or gets wrapped up in a bid to bring Oliver back to life, only for her life to jeopardized; where if Oliver didn't give her his chance for life, she'd not make it back. Then Corrigan shows up.
Anyway....
Barry asking Oliver for a speedforce boost came off a lot more like a drug addict begging for a fix.
So is Ryan's grand plan on Maltus to locate Mar is to...find the central bureaucracy....?
Where's J'Onn's brother when we need him?
Sigh.....
So they didn't really have any idea what to do with the group of "Paragons" who weren't going to Maltus, or how to make their part of the mission challenging during this installment; so they're going to pad part of four of a five-fucking-part crossover with some bullshit tangent of Barry randomly needing to connect with his memories to find the others? Why can't Oliver (or should it be "Olivre" now? I'm going to start calling him Olivre.) Why can't Olivre keep all them together in the same memory or whatever fuckery he's doing? Why does he have to rely on fucking Barry to make sure they don't all fall out of....Olivre? Why can't he help Barry find them without being cryptic? Why do they even time for this??
Does Barry still have to look for Oliver? And what about Kate? They only met her one other time before all of this shit went down. Either that's the only place Oliver would tuck her away, or Barry has no chance of finding her.
Sigh....DCEU Flash....cool.....
I mean, I am kind of surprised they were a) even allowed to do this level of crossover, or b) that they managed to film it without anyone leaking it. And I did kind of see some hints over the last 24 hours, but I kind of dismissed the likelihood that this version of the Flash would appear. I keep wanting to calling "Mecha-Flash," because his suit looks more machine based than anything else.
What DOES this mean? The whole premise that Olivre just laid out to him was that this was......him, Olivre, basically, and/or the speedforce and that he was hiding the others....inside himself or whatever, inside memories to protect them. That wasn't a memory, so now they're not only padding this installment with filler, they're just throwing in random shit for the hell of it.
How does an ordinary human walking - not even running, it seems - at average speed, manage to give a Super the slip? I mean, when Supergirl immediately found him, it didn't seem like much of a surprise, because with all her heightened senses it shouldn't have taken any effort to track him down, but by that same token he shouldn't have even gotten more than a few feet before she noticed.
For that matter, and not like it's ever stopped them anyhow, but should Kara even have her powers on this alien planet that may or may not be orbiting a yellow sun?
Alright, so lets give the writers the benefit of the doubt and assume the "upgrades" Lex gave himself is how he managed to give Kara and Ryan the slip in the first place.
So Olivre stuck Kate in just some random old memory from his life; so how the fuck is Barry supposed to locate her? Especially since it's from a memory of Olivre's that Barry wasn't part of.....?
Aaaaaaand the memory of Olivre is consciously aware of the likes of the Paragons floating around inside him, but doesn't know who they are or why they're there?
Jesus, did the writers decide to try acid before they wrote this shit?
I almost asked if that was memory Kara, but it has to be, since actual Kara is on another planet. Which again, planet Maltus was in Universe 1, ostenstibly, which now gone, past, present and future.....
How is Ryan not more injured by whatever blast Lex hit him with; you know, being nothing more than a flimsy, fragile human and all?
"You left your family because someone you never even met told you you were needed"
Did he though? It's been a month, so I don't really remember the point where he was actually on board with all of this shit, but I do remember that when they first told him about the Crisis and asked him to come with them, all he wanted to do was to get back to his family. Which is understandable.
And seeing as how they spent weeks at Vanishing Point, how is it that they're only just revisiting this whole "are you sure you got the right person" thing now?
Is this supposed to be their way of doing the whole sub-storyline in the comics, where Barry pops up randomly at different points in the past, trying to warn people about the impending Crisis; when he was running around the Anti-Monitor's antimatter cannon to destroy it, just before his death? Because this is super convoluted.
Wait, so Barry was tasked with just finding Olivre? All while it was Olivre who told him what he had to do.... what the fuck is happening in this fucking episode? It started out halfway descent; and now I have no fucking clue what is going on. But it's pissing me off, because they're wasting a lot of time on this bullshit.
This scene of Barry finding out about Olivre's deal is so fucking weird. The way they shot it without either of them in the same frame makes it seem so disconnected.
I kind of appreciate Lex's annoyed confusion that Mar somehow mistakes Lex's voice for that of his wife's.
I had to think for a second why Not-Diggle didn't recognize Barry, before remembering when Sara's death would have aligned with The Flash; and was confusing it with Laurel's death, when they definitely would have known who Barry or the Flash was.
I forget though, was that scene before Barry's arrival with Jon talking to Laurel about taking up Sara's mantle one that originally happened on the show? I swear that was a slow build up after Sara's death.
Sans the blood, I've always loved how Caity Lotz looks in that original Canary costume. I'll never understand why they tried to fix what wasn't broken.
"When we were attacked...."
"By the Anti-Monitor...."
"Doesn't even sound like an actual name...."
Okay, that was good.
How the fuck did Barry track down J'Onn during a memory he wasn't around for, let alone Kate?
So first some random bald dude breaks into his lab and manages to talk some sense into him; albeit without offering any great proof that he is who he claims to be, much less prove he can actually help, but hey, he at least had the courtesy of walking through the door like a normal person. Then someone else bursts in, tearing the door off its hinges or whatever and starts issuing threats to the (shorter) bald guy and some other random hairy dude behind her asks Mar to leave the room with him and..... he just does.... yeah, okay. I mean, just the fact that they've gone back in time however many million years or whatever, let alone to another fucking planet without any need to address how or why Mar can understand any of them, it's pretty much just a free for all.
Oh, okay; so now that Barry's side adventure has been neatly wrapped up, I guess it's time to pick up the kids from the daycare on Maltus, without so much as stopping to actually check and make sure that they completed the task they set out to do.
So what, the Anti-Monitor's argument is that there are an infinite number of Monitors to do what the one Monitor they just convinced to give up on his experiment doesn't do? And yet, by all indication, there was only the one Monitor who took his trip in the first place; otherwise there'd be an infinite fucking number of Mars who originally popped up in the antimatter universe to start with. And I'm pretty sure that given those odds, the Anti-Monitor would have been screwed.
The plan is to use the Paragons to...fan the flames to rebirth the universe or whatever, but one of the Paragons is missing and replaced by Lex; which unless by replacing Superman's name with his own somehow made Lex into the Paragon that Superman is supposed to be, their one man down of who they need.
Wait, I've seen this fight sequence somewhere before......🤔
"You have failed this universe."
😐
"We focus. A singular, laser like focus."
I feel like I'm about see another familiar scene...
Somehow I just knew that they thing they were going to have to do would involve them just standing around looking serious and thinking hard. I'm surprised they didn't just go full out Peter Pan and ask the audience to clap real hard to bring the universe back to life.
This is some serious bullshit that they aren't even going to try and bring Brandon's Superman back for this climactic moment...and it's done.
Yeah, that might actually be the definition of anti-climax. I mean, I know there's still somehow a whole fucking episode left this shit-fuckery, but man, I'm pretty sure they have to think hard to take a dump in the morning. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, right, I'm totally going to believe or care that they're suggesting that Olivre is going to die, again.
So let see here, they literally killed and resurrected Olivre once within this cross-over, there's still one more episode left to this crossover; and there's still two episodes left to fucking Arrow. So, no, not buying this. I'm sure as hell not buying that they're going to kill Oliver fucking Queen twice without including Diggle.
I also find it hilarious that a major event like Crisis concluded nearly 24 hours ago and no one on here has posted anything about it. I haven't even accidentally come across any spoilers; no major exclamations of "Arrowverse forever changed by Crisis on Infinite Earths!" or "What does X plot development mean for the future of DC/CW Shows?".
Meanwhile when Doctor Who premiered two weeks ago and in the 24-36 hours it took for me get around to watching that, I came across half a dozen posts on Facebook and videos on youtube that, without explicitly saying so, made it clear that
the Master was back and who he was.
That to me, I think, is a spoiler unto itself, after a fashion; the fact that there was no major, earth(s) shattering outcome to Crisis to report or for people to comment on really sets the bar for my expectations going in this and that I doubt anything of consequence is going to come out of the last two episodes. Which I'm not even going to watch back to back, because I honestly don't feel like it. I'm going to try to get to the last one sometime later today, but definitely not right after part four; baring some improbable cliffhanger that's just too good not to see how it concludes.
So here we go....
Okay, so they're combining the Monitor's origin story with the Maltusian Krona from the comics. I can dig it, actually.
For those who don't know, in the comics, the ancient people of Maltus were one of the first advanced, sentient lifeforms to spring up in the universe. One of their scientists, Krona, was obsessed with studying the dawn of time and witnessing how the universe was formed; in spite of legends that attempting to do so would be catastrophic. His experiments caused time to fracture at the dawn of time, creating the multiverse; where there was originally supposed to only be a single universe.
A segment of the Maltusians, I believe at least partly driven by a sense of responsibility to the universe for this incident, would evolve to become the Guardians of the universe, who would go on to eventually form the Green Lantern Corp.
Conversely, in the comic the Monitor was basically just some random entity that somehow evolved on the moon of Maltus or Oa; I kind of forget why and don't feel like looking it up. But he was just some super, lone naked dude, hanging out on this moon and came to learn about his doppelganger in the Anti-Monitor universe. Somehow they battled across the divide between dimensions and the fight forced them both into a state of suspended animation; until Parriah's experiments awoken the Anti-monitor (if I'm not mistaken, as a result of accidentally destroying his own universe, which somehow fed power to the Anti-monitor; and gave AM the idea to destroy the other universes in the multiverse).
While Krona is conventionally a villain, all in all this works well; merging Krona with the Monitor. Especially since there's still an antagonist element with the Anti-Monitor.
Hmmm.... I can't help but wonder if they intentionally lit this scene so that Mar Novu's wife would be cast in a blue light that makes it look like she has blue skin, reminiscent of the blue skin Maltusians have (eventually anyway).
I'll admit, this opening sequence isn't bad. The appearance at the end of the Anti-Monitor felt a little hokey, but if they can keep the momentum of the first few minutes going, they might pull it off.
Okay, so I'm pretty sure Ryan Choi didn't have a beard in the last episode, which I'm taking to suggest they've been stuck at Vanishing Point for a while; and the main thing I have to say is, i would have given just about anything is they just had all of the "Paragons" have beards. Ryan, Lex, J'Onnn Kara, Kate, Sara. Just like, fuck it, it's been a month and we've all got beards.
I laughed a little about Ryan writing that "the Paragon of Destiny doesn't even believe in tomorrow anymore." and it's like, you know.... you are at the end of time, so......
Wait, so when Lex replaced Superman, somehow part of Superman's cape got left behind; and Kara randomly walks around with it from time to time?
"There is not there out there anymore..." You know, that's actually a good point. Vanishing Point is at the end of time for "Earth" 1; or rather the universe that Earth 1 resides in.... which was destroyed... the entire universe..... from beginning to end....So how the fuck is there still a Vanishing Point?
I mean, I know that it was, originally, like a time-frozen base hovering at the instant before the end of time, but in this scenario the Time Masters who maintained all of this tech and the base are gone, the base itself is in ruins; what's keep it....preserved or whatever? For that matter, how is there even enough air, water or food to sustain anyone there for any length of time?
Man, Barry just keeps bouncing off of walls, doesn't he?
Hey, look at that, it's all of Oliver's greatest hits....
"Why would you make me re-live all of that?"
Even Oliver Queen lost interest in re-watching the vast majority of Arrow....
Gee, I wonder why Oliver's talking all funny... I bet it's nothing.
The reveal of Oliver to the "Paragons" would have been a lot more worthy of rally music they're playing under this scene, if they hadn't fucking just shown us him getting ready to go and meet with them....
"I am Oliver Queen, but I'm also something more...."
Come on, you've been unintentionally building to this moment of actually making the whole "something else" line an actually important part of the show and you're going pull you're punches now?
As has been brought up with the past installments, the whole Oliver becomes the Spectre thing is fine, but honestly, in typical Arrow fashion the execution is seriously wanting. They could have spent the first fucking 7 or 8 episodes doing a proper build up to that. Defy all expectations by killing off Oliver during the very first episode of the season, maybe right in the opening, and make it seem like his journey over the next couple of episodes was about him and his friends trying to bring him back to life; weaving in the retrospective element, only to subvert it with the reveal of him becoming the Spectre instead.
Maybe throw in one last heroic act, where Oliver has the chance to go back, but sacrifices that opportunity to give someone else he meets along the way the chance to be brought back instead - fuck, maybe Mia. Either she dies or gets wrapped up in a bid to bring Oliver back to life, only for her life to jeopardized; where if Oliver didn't give her his chance for life, she'd not make it back. Then Corrigan shows up.
Anyway....
Barry asking Oliver for a speedforce boost came off a lot more like a drug addict begging for a fix.
So is Ryan's grand plan on Maltus to locate Mar is to...find the central bureaucracy....?
Where's J'Onn's brother when we need him?
Sigh.....
So they didn't really have any idea what to do with the group of "Paragons" who weren't going to Maltus, or how to make their part of the mission challenging during this installment; so they're going to pad part of four of a five-fucking-part crossover with some bullshit tangent of Barry randomly needing to connect with his memories to find the others? Why can't Oliver (or should it be "Olivre" now? I'm going to start calling him Olivre.) Why can't Olivre keep all them together in the same memory or whatever fuckery he's doing? Why does he have to rely on fucking Barry to make sure they don't all fall out of....Olivre? Why can't he help Barry find them without being cryptic? Why do they even time for this??
Does Barry still have to look for Oliver? And what about Kate? They only met her one other time before all of this shit went down. Either that's the only place Oliver would tuck her away, or Barry has no chance of finding her.
Sigh....DCEU Flash....cool.....
I mean, I am kind of surprised they were a) even allowed to do this level of crossover, or b) that they managed to film it without anyone leaking it. And I did kind of see some hints over the last 24 hours, but I kind of dismissed the likelihood that this version of the Flash would appear. I keep wanting to calling "Mecha-Flash," because his suit looks more machine based than anything else.
What DOES this mean? The whole premise that Olivre just laid out to him was that this was......him, Olivre, basically, and/or the speedforce and that he was hiding the others....inside himself or whatever, inside memories to protect them. That wasn't a memory, so now they're not only padding this installment with filler, they're just throwing in random shit for the hell of it.
How does an ordinary human walking - not even running, it seems - at average speed, manage to give a Super the slip? I mean, when Supergirl immediately found him, it didn't seem like much of a surprise, because with all her heightened senses it shouldn't have taken any effort to track him down, but by that same token he shouldn't have even gotten more than a few feet before she noticed.
For that matter, and not like it's ever stopped them anyhow, but should Kara even have her powers on this alien planet that may or may not be orbiting a yellow sun?
Alright, so lets give the writers the benefit of the doubt and assume the "upgrades" Lex gave himself is how he managed to give Kara and Ryan the slip in the first place.
So Olivre stuck Kate in just some random old memory from his life; so how the fuck is Barry supposed to locate her? Especially since it's from a memory of Olivre's that Barry wasn't part of.....?
Aaaaaaand the memory of Olivre is consciously aware of the likes of the Paragons floating around inside him, but doesn't know who they are or why they're there?
Jesus, did the writers decide to try acid before they wrote this shit?
I almost asked if that was memory Kara, but it has to be, since actual Kara is on another planet. Which again, planet Maltus was in Universe 1, ostenstibly, which now gone, past, present and future.....
How is Ryan not more injured by whatever blast Lex hit him with; you know, being nothing more than a flimsy, fragile human and all?
"You left your family because someone you never even met told you you were needed"
Did he though? It's been a month, so I don't really remember the point where he was actually on board with all of this shit, but I do remember that when they first told him about the Crisis and asked him to come with them, all he wanted to do was to get back to his family. Which is understandable.
And seeing as how they spent weeks at Vanishing Point, how is it that they're only just revisiting this whole "are you sure you got the right person" thing now?
Is this supposed to be their way of doing the whole sub-storyline in the comics, where Barry pops up randomly at different points in the past, trying to warn people about the impending Crisis; when he was running around the Anti-Monitor's antimatter cannon to destroy it, just before his death? Because this is super convoluted.
Wait, so Barry was tasked with just finding Olivre? All while it was Olivre who told him what he had to do.... what the fuck is happening in this fucking episode? It started out halfway descent; and now I have no fucking clue what is going on. But it's pissing me off, because they're wasting a lot of time on this bullshit.
This scene of Barry finding out about Olivre's deal is so fucking weird. The way they shot it without either of them in the same frame makes it seem so disconnected.
I kind of appreciate Lex's annoyed confusion that Mar somehow mistakes Lex's voice for that of his wife's.
I had to think for a second why Not-Diggle didn't recognize Barry, before remembering when Sara's death would have aligned with The Flash; and was confusing it with Laurel's death, when they definitely would have known who Barry or the Flash was.
I forget though, was that scene before Barry's arrival with Jon talking to Laurel about taking up Sara's mantle one that originally happened on the show? I swear that was a slow build up after Sara's death.
Sans the blood, I've always loved how Caity Lotz looks in that original Canary costume. I'll never understand why they tried to fix what wasn't broken.
"When we were attacked...."
"By the Anti-Monitor...."
"Doesn't even sound like an actual name...."
Okay, that was good.
How the fuck did Barry track down J'Onn during a memory he wasn't around for, let alone Kate?
So first some random bald dude breaks into his lab and manages to talk some sense into him; albeit without offering any great proof that he is who he claims to be, much less prove he can actually help, but hey, he at least had the courtesy of walking through the door like a normal person. Then someone else bursts in, tearing the door off its hinges or whatever and starts issuing threats to the (shorter) bald guy and some other random hairy dude behind her asks Mar to leave the room with him and..... he just does.... yeah, okay. I mean, just the fact that they've gone back in time however many million years or whatever, let alone to another fucking planet without any need to address how or why Mar can understand any of them, it's pretty much just a free for all.
Oh, okay; so now that Barry's side adventure has been neatly wrapped up, I guess it's time to pick up the kids from the daycare on Maltus, without so much as stopping to actually check and make sure that they completed the task they set out to do.
So what, the Anti-Monitor's argument is that there are an infinite number of Monitors to do what the one Monitor they just convinced to give up on his experiment doesn't do? And yet, by all indication, there was only the one Monitor who took his trip in the first place; otherwise there'd be an infinite fucking number of Mars who originally popped up in the antimatter universe to start with. And I'm pretty sure that given those odds, the Anti-Monitor would have been screwed.
The plan is to use the Paragons to...fan the flames to rebirth the universe or whatever, but one of the Paragons is missing and replaced by Lex; which unless by replacing Superman's name with his own somehow made Lex into the Paragon that Superman is supposed to be, their one man down of who they need.
Wait, I've seen this fight sequence somewhere before......🤔
"You have failed this universe."
😐
"We focus. A singular, laser like focus."
I feel like I'm about see another familiar scene...
Somehow I just knew that they thing they were going to have to do would involve them just standing around looking serious and thinking hard. I'm surprised they didn't just go full out Peter Pan and ask the audience to clap real hard to bring the universe back to life.
This is some serious bullshit that they aren't even going to try and bring Brandon's Superman back for this climactic moment...and it's done.
Yeah, that might actually be the definition of anti-climax. I mean, I know there's still somehow a whole fucking episode left this shit-fuckery, but man, I'm pretty sure they have to think hard to take a dump in the morning. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, right, I'm totally going to believe or care that they're suggesting that Olivre is going to die, again.
So let see here, they literally killed and resurrected Olivre once within this cross-over, there's still one more episode left to this crossover; and there's still two episodes left to fucking Arrow. So, no, not buying this. I'm sure as hell not buying that they're going to kill Oliver fucking Queen twice without including Diggle.
