senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 27, 2020 16:06:14 GMT
Revenge of the Sith is loathed mostly because of its infantile stupidity. It's a family film that features infanticide and grotesque violence (immolation) in a cartoonish child-like world. It's a film that benefits no one, children and adults. Which is a refreshing change to the play it safe clean products that we get now. Not really. Shock horror played for coolness i.e “looks cool” isn’t clever. And ROTS is a bad movie, so these scenes make less dramatic impact anyway. Your point about safe products is laughable, considering the overwhelming majority of mainstream movies post New Hollywood play it safe.
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Jason143
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Post by Jason143 on Jan 27, 2020 16:09:39 GMT
Which is a refreshing change to the play it safe clean products that we get now. Not really. Shock horror played for coolness i.e “looks cool” isn’t clever. And ROTS is a bad movie, so these scenes make less dramatic impact anyway. Your point about safe products is laughable, considering the overwhelming majority of mainstream movies post New Hollywood play it safe. Well we all knew Anakin moves to the dark side so it was expected as the closer of the movie. Im glad George decided to add the darker stuff as was always hinted in the OT. Its justified because the character and story demands it so it isnt put in there for shock value.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 27, 2020 16:12:47 GMT
That shot reminds me of just how rad ESB Revisted is. It's one of the best fan edits I've ever seen.
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senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 27, 2020 16:18:22 GMT
Not really. Shock horror played for coolness i.e “looks cool” isn’t clever. And ROTS is a bad movie, so these scenes make less dramatic impact anyway. Your point about safe products is laughable, considering the overwhelming majority of mainstream movies post New Hollywood play it safe. Well we all knew Anakin moves to the dark side so it was expected as the closer of the movie. Im glad George decided to add the darker stuff as was always hinted in the OT. Its justified because the character and story demands it so it isnt put in there for shock value. The darker stuff in ROTS is too infantile because Star Wars isn't grown up enough to discuss morality, the gratuitous violence is just nonsense. At least in ROTJ, the dark psychology of Luke and the Emperor's battle is more fitting to the Star Wars setting.
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Jason143
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Post by Jason143 on Jan 27, 2020 16:25:42 GMT
The darker stuff in ROTS is too infantile because Star Wars isn't grown up enough to discuss morality, Speak for yourself. As an adult watching ROTS opens up a lot of themes that are too high concept for younger audiences to grasp.
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senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 27, 2020 16:34:15 GMT
The darker stuff in ROTS is too infantile because Star Wars isn't grown up enough to discuss morality, Speak for yourself. As an adult watching ROTS opens up a lot of themes that are too high concept for younger audiences to grasp. It doesn't matter. Hitler's rise to power, the fall of democracy, and a Greek tragedy are never going to be deep when they are executed poorly. You also made the point that gratuitous nonsensical violence is valid when it evidently isn't.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 27, 2020 17:41:54 GMT
Well we all knew Anakin moves to the dark side so it was expected as the closer of the movie. Im glad George decided to add the darker stuff as was always hinted in the OT. Its justified because the character and story demands it so it isnt put in there for shock value. The darker stuff in ROTS is too infantile because Star Wars isn't grown up enough to discuss morality, the gratuitous violence is just nonsense. At least in ROTJ, the dark psychology of Luke and the Emperor's battle is more fitting to the Star Wars setting. That’s not some “flaw” of the prequels. The violence has always been there... ANH = Luke’s aunt and uncle are charred corpses. A dead Greedo with smoke coming from his fatal wound. Kenobi slices arms off and the bloody arm is seen on the floor. TESB = Luke’s hand is sliced off by his own father. TFA = Kylo impales his own father. Kylo slices Finn’s back open. Rey slices Kylo’s face open. TLJ = Snoke is sliced in half and his upper body keels over onto the floor. TROS = Kylo impales people. Rey impales Kylo. And let’s be honest, how kid/family friendly is planet-wide genecide? And that has been a main theme in over half of the SW movies. If you’re going to grill one SW movie for that subject you may as well grill the entire saga.
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senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 27, 2020 17:51:11 GMT
The darker stuff in ROTS is too infantile because Star Wars isn't grown up enough to discuss morality, the gratuitous violence is just nonsense. At least in ROTJ, the dark psychology of Luke and the Emperor's battle is more fitting to the Star Wars setting. That’s not some “flaw” of the prequels. The violence has always been there... ANH = Luke’s aunt and uncle are charred corpses. A dead Greedo with smoke coming from his fatal wound. Kenobi slices arms off and the bloody arm is seen on the floor. TESB = Luke’s hand is sliced off by his own father. TFA = Kylo impales his own father. Kylo slices Finn’s back open. Rey slices Kylo’s face open. TLJ = Snoke is sliced in half and his upper body keels over onto the floor. TROS = Kylo impales people. Rey impales Kylo. And let’s be honest, how kid/family friendly is planet-wide genecide? And that has been a main theme in over half of the SW movies. If you’re going to grill one SW movie for that subject you may as well grill the entire saga. The overly dark gratuitous nonsense of ROTS is what I'm referring to, and at least those scenes you mentioned have dramatic impact.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 27, 2020 18:02:22 GMT
That’s not some “flaw” of the prequels. The violence has always been there... ANH = Luke’s aunt and uncle are charred corpses. A dead Greedo with smoke coming from his fatal wound. Kenobi slices arms off and the bloody arm is seen on the floor. TESB = Luke’s hand is sliced off by his own father. TFA = Kylo impales his own father. Kylo slices Finn’s back open. Rey slices Kylo’s face open. TLJ = Snoke is sliced in half and his upper body keels over onto the floor. TROS = Kylo impales people. Rey impales Kylo. And let’s be honest, how kid/family friendly is planet-wide genecide? And that has been a main theme in over half of the SW movies. If you’re going to grill one SW movie for that subject you may as well grill the entire saga. The overly dark gratuitous nonsense of ROTS is what I'm referring to, and at least those scenes you mentioned have dramatic impact. How is there a difference in dramatic impact? In all of those movies the gratuitous violence usually occurred in lightsaber battles. So what’s the dramatic difference? I suppose you could single out Anakin burning up. But... anyone closely following SW from it’s inception knew that was coming. There’s a reason why he’s in that suit and can’t survive without it. I suppose you could argue that they didn’t have to show the actual process of him burning up. But other than that I don’t see much if any of a difference on using it for dramatic impact or the lack there of.
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Jason143
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Post by Jason143 on Jan 27, 2020 18:19:41 GMT
Speak for yourself. As an adult watching ROTS opens up a lot of themes that are too high concept for younger audiences to grasp. It doesn't matter. Hitler's rise to power, the fall of democracy, and a Greek tragedy are never going to be deep when they are executed poorly. You also made the point that gratuitous nonsensical violence is valid when it evidently isn't. They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 27, 2020 18:25:18 GMT
It doesn't matter. Hitler's rise to power, the fall of democracy, and a Greek tragedy are never going to be deep when they are executed poorly. You also made the point that gratuitous nonsensical violence is valid when it evidently isn't. They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 27, 2020 19:29:25 GMT
It doesn't matter. Hitler's rise to power, the fall of democracy, and a Greek tragedy are never going to be deep when they are executed poorly. You also made the point that gratuitous nonsensical violence is valid when it evidently isn't. They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS. www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-episode-iii-greatest-395637As Prof Paglia states: “The long finale of 'Revenge of the Sith' has more inherent artistic value, emotional power and global impact than anything by the artists you name,” says Camille Paglia. "Noted art critic Camille Paglia makes that claim in her book Glittering Images, calling George Lucas’ final Star Wars film the greatest work of art of the past 30 years." Personally, after the godfather of all cerebral space movies, Kubrick's 2001 -ASO (1968) RotS ranks second or third in terms of substance, storytelling, art & music and cinematography.
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senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 27, 2020 21:10:42 GMT
It doesn't matter. Hitler's rise to power, the fall of democracy, and a Greek tragedy are never going to be deep when they are executed poorly. You also made the point that gratuitous nonsensical violence is valid when it evidently isn't. They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS. Back that up?
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Jason143
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Post by Jason143 on Jan 27, 2020 22:14:02 GMT
They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS. Back that up? The payoff scenes of each culminating storyline work. One is the greek trajedy you speak of Anakins final duel with Obi Wan is thrilling and tense with an epic score in the backdrop of a literal hell symbolizing the devil incarnate within Anakin is inevitable. "You were the chosen one" dialogue at the end works because the build up to that point has been earned through solid execution of that storyarc over 3 movies. The pathetic "I am all the Jedi" in TROS is conversely NOT earned and comes off as corny and inorganic.
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Jason143
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Post by Jason143 on Jan 27, 2020 22:17:23 GMT
They were executed almost flawlessly in ROTS. Almost * I believe George didnt execute the editing properly towards the end. It seemed from the movie that Anakin turned evil over the matter of a few hours and later battled Obi Wan. In fact it was actually over the period of days and this isnt conveyed properly through poor editing which does make me understand why people would say Anakins turned was too haste.
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senan90
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Post by senan90 on Jan 28, 2020 0:02:02 GMT
The payoff scenes of each culminating storyline work. One is the greek trajedy you speak of Anakins final duel with Obi Wan is thrilling and tense with an epic score in the backdrop of a literal hell symbolizing the devil incarnate within Anakin is inevitable. "You were the chosen one" dialogue at the end works because the build up to that point has been earned through solid execution of that storyarc over 3 movies. The pathetic "I am all the Jedi" in TROS is conversely NOT earned and comes off as corny and inorganic. Not really. Christensen is so out of his depth, every line and performance is so unnatural. Sandwiched in between these scenes are big battles, big fights and the nonsense spectacle that you chastised the Sequel Trilogy for. The duel is so pompously overblown, it's like a video game. "You were the chosen one" makes little dramatic impact because everything that preceded it was dull action, wooden dialogue and shallow characterisation. More importantly, these two guys had no chemistry on screen, you wouldn't have believed they were friends if the film told you. By the way, I know you're a fanatic, so you have personal bias towards the Disney films. I have a reality check for you. All of these movies are products. They are all silly fun, even Star Wars. They are a theme park journey of spectacle. Anyone who finds them deep is wallowing in the infantile.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 28, 2020 0:15:39 GMT
Anyone who finds them deep is wallowing in the infantile. Quoted for truth.
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 28, 2020 0:44:47 GMT
TPM has some fun stuff buried in it, but it's almost pointless in the grand scheme of things and so far removed from the rest of the series. Centering the first film of the trilogy around a guy who dies, a kid who will grow into a completely different person, and a standalone war were baffling decisions. Yeah, I think you and I pretty much agree... Except for the origin story of the main characters... TPM felt more like a "spinoff" or "prequel to a prequel" film, at least to me, and it was not part of the main story line featured in Episodes 2-6.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jan 28, 2020 1:21:41 GMT
TPM has some fun stuff buried in it, but it's almost pointless in the grand scheme of things and so far removed from the rest of the series. Centering the first film of the trilogy around a guy who dies, a kid who will grow into a completely different person, and a standalone war were baffling decisions. Yeah, I think you and I pretty much agree... Except for the origin story of the main characters... TPM felt more like a "spinoff" or "prequel to a prequel" film, at least to me, and it was not part of the main story line featured in Episodes 2-6. Indeed. The bummer of it is, there have been two separate shows just on the Clone Wars, so Lucas could have easily scrapped TPM and made a movie more interconnected to II and III.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 28, 2020 9:23:04 GMT
Anyone who finds them deep is wallowing in the infantile. Quoted for truth. Quoted for truth.
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