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Post by Winston Wolfe on Feb 11, 2020 4:54:59 GMT
Anywhere from $40-$80 and beyond for a player, roughly $40-50 for a record.
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Post by onethreetwo on Feb 11, 2020 4:59:50 GMT
No I got out of the hobby years ago. Way too expensive.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Feb 11, 2020 5:54:20 GMT
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 11, 2020 6:13:02 GMT
No. Vinyl is an inferior medium compared to digital to start with and the vast majority of vinyl masters use the digital master anyway. Any difference heard is due to the distortions of the medium and/or placebo. The only thing that makes vinyl "worth" anything is the collectible factor; big artwork/books are cool AF; but please, for Pete's sake, don't buy it because you think it sounds better. That's all marketing BS capitalizing on audiophools and hipsters utterly ignorant about audio science.
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Post by msdemos on Feb 11, 2020 8:29:42 GMT
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Post by sostie on Feb 11, 2020 11:37:51 GMT
Well I think it's worth it because I have a collection I've been buying since I was a kid...and still buy but mostly trawling through second hand collections. Still buy new releases but rarely at the price indicated in the opening post, unless it's a soundtrack, many of which are only released on vinyl. I can still go out a come across great copies of classic albums for £1.
I am neither an "audiophool" or hipster and couldn't give a damn if I'm "ignorant about audio science". They sound better to me.
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Post by Zos on Feb 11, 2020 11:40:09 GMT
Anywhere from $40-$80 and beyond for a player, roughly $40-50 for a record. Well, I wouldn't put any record on a sub £100 ($130ish?) player myself (paid £250 myself) and can buy 99% of new records at around the £20 mark which is half what you state but yes, most certainly. In my youth I had a collection of around 3000 albums but space made me gut that back by 97% to around 100. now starting collecting classic singles as was never much of a 45 collector (had about 200) and it makes for a nice if rather expensive hobby. Mainly collect punk and anarcho/punk as that was my scene growing up and it'd surprising how many old folk touching 60 seem to be doing the same nowadays. My latest purchase...
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Post by Zos on Feb 11, 2020 11:52:48 GMT
No. Vinyl is an inferior medium compared to digital to start with and the vast majority of vinyl masters use the digital master anyway. Any difference heard is due to the distortions of the medium and/or placebo. The only thing that makes vinyl "worth" anything is the collectible factor; big artwork/books are cool AF; but please, for Pete's sake, don't buy it because you think it sounds better. That's all marketing BS capitalizing on audiophools and hipsters utterly ignorant about audio science. Yet 90 out of every 100 people probably listen to music on the phone at 320kbps so that argument is silly in my opinion, there is a place for both. I use a hi-def player with 16 bit FLAC (anything higher is a waste with arguably no discernible difference although as with the importance of noise floor etc will be argued backwards and forwards forever by audiophiles) The main difference in my opinion is the age of the listener, if you are an old fart such as I the "tactile" nature of vinyl is also very important in an indoors environment as part of the whole holistic musical experience, that is not available outdoors so I go to the best quality available on expensive equipment. I won't be told by anyone who listens to 320kbps on a phone though that vinyl is inferior to anything. This also doesn't take in the fact that some genres of music are deliberately Lo-Fi.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 11, 2020 13:34:12 GMT
No. Vinyl is an inferior medium compared to digital to start with and the vast majority of vinyl masters use the digital master anyway. Any difference heard is due to the distortions of the medium and/or placebo. The only thing that makes vinyl "worth" anything is the collectible factor; big artwork/books are cool AF; but please, for Pete's sake, don't buy it because you think it sounds better. That's all marketing BS capitalizing on audiophools and hipsters utterly ignorant about audio science. Yet 90 out of every 100 people probably listen to music on the phone at 320kbps so that argument is silly in my opinion, there is a place for both. I use a hi-def player with 16 bit FLAC (anything higher is a waste with arguably no discernible difference although as with the importance of noise floor etc will be argued backwards and forwards forever by audiophiles) The main difference in my opinion is the age of the listener, if you are an old fart such as I the "tactile" nature of vinyl is also very important in an indoors environment as part of the whole holistic musical experience, that is not available outdoors so I go to the best quality available on expensive equipment. I won't be told by anyone who listens to 320kbps on a phone though that vinyl is inferior to anything. This also doesn't take in the fact that some genres of music are deliberately Lo-Fi. 320kbps is probably indistinguishable from lossless given the improvement of modern compressors. I download everything in FLAC because I've invested in tons of storage space anyway. I agree anything higher than 16/44.1 is a waste and there's good science behind why this is so; those two numbers weren't chosen randomly or haphazardly back in the early days of digital. I also agree that there are arguments for vinyl other than sound, including the tactile argument and the collectible argument and the "coolness" argument; but that's all still irrelevant to sound quality. I have two systems. For both I use my PC to access my NAS (where my music is stored, all in various lossless formats). That goes to my Oppo 105D via asynchronous USB. Then that either goes to my speaker system (Marantz AVR, ATI Amp, Legacy speakers) or my headphone system (Violectric V281 and a stupidly large headphone collection). At the end of the day, good quality vinyl and digital aren't world's apart in terms of fidelity, and speakers/headphones will always be the weakest link in any audio chain. Still, vinyl undoubtedly has flaws that are inherent in the medium, including a difficulty reproducing low bass, distortion, and loss of fidelity as the needle gets closer to the center of the album, that digital just doesn't have. If I wanted to introduce euphonic distortion into my system I'd just play around with EQs or even tubes.
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driftin
Sophomore
@driftin
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Post by driftin on Feb 11, 2020 13:34:54 GMT
It's one of those hobbies with a lot of shortcomings - it's expensive, it's time-consuming, it takes up a lot of space, it's inconvenient, it's arguably not as high quality as the convenient option - for people who enjoy it for its own sake. Basically if you're questioning whether it's worth it then it'll probably not worth it for you.
I love vinyl. I love the ritual (yes, it's a ritual) of taking the record off the shelf, carefully placing it on the turntable and starting it up. I love the fact it's setting time aside for listening to music intently instead of merely having it on in the background. I love looking at the huge artwork on the record's cover while the music is playing and going through the large supplementary materials if it has that. It's a much more personal and warm experience that feels like you're integrating the music into your life and mind more than pressing a button on your iPod or laptop. It's not that I don't listen to digital music, I do, a lot, but when I have time I like to be able to make an event out of my favourite music in the same way that going to the cinema or the theatre or a restaurant makes an event out of movies or drama or food.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 11, 2020 13:38:22 GMT
driftin I guess that's just the difference in people because I don't feel the need, at all, to make any kind of "event" out of any art to enjoy it to its fullest extent. If it's great music, especially if it's new (to me) great music, then the excitement of the event is there regardless of anything else. I still vividly remember my first experiences listening to all kinds of works/albums, some that involved an almost religious feeling of awe and power at the end (especially the best classical music), and that was wholly due to the power of the music itself and nothing else. I guess I just find it hard to imagine what the vinyl "ritual" would add to anything for me.
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driftin
Sophomore
@driftin
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Post by driftin on Feb 11, 2020 13:48:45 GMT
I guess that's just the difference in people I guess I just find it hard to imagine what the vinyl "ritual" would add to anything for me. This is it really. There's absolutely no doubt people get as much enjoyment out of things as me in their own way so I certainly won't disparage that. People that do that are simply annoying, pro or anti-vinyl. My post was just an explanation for my own love of it, really. Collecting and playing vinyl's only something I'd recommend to people if they believe they will enjoy it. |
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Post by Zos on Feb 11, 2020 18:30:52 GMT
Yet 90 out of every 100 people probably listen to music on the phone at 320kbps so that argument is silly in my opinion, there is a place for both. I use a hi-def player with 16 bit FLAC (anything higher is a waste with arguably no discernible difference although as with the importance of noise floor etc will be argued backwards and forwards forever by audiophiles) The main difference in my opinion is the age of the listener, if you are an old fart such as I the "tactile" nature of vinyl is also very important in an indoors environment as part of the whole holistic musical experience, that is not available outdoors so I go to the best quality available on expensive equipment. I won't be told by anyone who listens to 320kbps on a phone though that vinyl is inferior to anything. This also doesn't take in the fact that some genres of music are deliberately Lo-Fi. 320kbps is probably indistinguishable from lossless given the improvement of modern compressors. I download everything in FLAC because I've invested in tons of storage space anyway. I agree anything higher than 16/44.1 is a waste and there's good science behind why this is so; those two numbers weren't chosen randomly or haphazardly back in the early days of digital. I also agree that there are arguments for vinyl other than sound, including the tactile argument and the collectible argument and the "coolness" argument; but that's all still irrelevant to sound quality. I have two systems. For both I use my PC to access my NAS (where my music is stored, all in various lossless formats). That goes to my Oppo 105D via asynchronous USB. Then that either goes to my speaker system (Marantz AVR, ATI Amp, Legacy speakers) or my headphone system (Violectric V281 and a stupidly large headphone collection). At the end of the day, good quality vinyl and digital aren't world's apart in terms of fidelity, and speakers/headphones will always be the weakest link in any audio chain. Still, vinyl undoubtedly has flaws that are inherent in the medium, including a difficulty reproducing low bass, distortion, and loss of fidelity as the needle gets closer to the center of the album, that digital just doesn't have. If I wanted to introduce euphonic distortion into my system I'd just play around with EQs or even tubes. If you think 320 and lossless are "indestinguishable" I really have to beg to differ, but agree on most everything else.
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Post by Zos on Feb 11, 2020 18:32:29 GMT
It's one of those hobbies with a lot of shortcomings - it's expensive, it's time-consuming, it takes up a lot of space, it's inconvenient, it's arguably not as high quality as the convenient option - for people who enjoy it for its own sake. Basically if you're questioning whether it's worth it then it'll probably not worth it for you. I love vinyl. I love the ritual (yes, it's a ritual) of taking the record off the shelf, carefully placing it on the turntable and starting it up. I love the fact it's setting time aside for listening to music intently instead of merely having it on in the background. I love looking at the huge artwork on the record's cover while the music is playing and going through the large supplementary materials if it has that. It's a much more personal and warm experience that feels like you're integrating the music into your life and mind more than pressing a button on your iPod or laptop. It's not that I don't listen to digital music, I do, a lot, but when I have time I like to be able to make an event out of my favourite music in the same way that going to the cinema or the theatre or a restaurant makes an event out of movies or drama or food. Said much better than me, couldn't agree more.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 11, 2020 19:20:54 GMT
As someone who grew up with vinyl... NO
You have to be shitting me on the cost of an album. I remember having a fit when records went over $9.95
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Post by bluerisk on Feb 11, 2020 21:37:21 GMT
My ears are shit. I'm lucky if I hear anything at all.
I collect CDs because of my German squirrel-mentality.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 12, 2020 2:01:31 GMT
320kbps is probably indistinguishable from lossless given the improvement of modern compressors. I download everything in FLAC because I've invested in tons of storage space anyway. I agree anything higher than 16/44.1 is a waste and there's good science behind why this is so; those two numbers weren't chosen randomly or haphazardly back in the early days of digital. I also agree that there are arguments for vinyl other than sound, including the tactile argument and the collectible argument and the "coolness" argument; but that's all still irrelevant to sound quality. I have two systems. For both I use my PC to access my NAS (where my music is stored, all in various lossless formats). That goes to my Oppo 105D via asynchronous USB. Then that either goes to my speaker system (Marantz AVR, ATI Amp, Legacy speakers) or my headphone system (Violectric V281 and a stupidly large headphone collection). At the end of the day, good quality vinyl and digital aren't world's apart in terms of fidelity, and speakers/headphones will always be the weakest link in any audio chain. Still, vinyl undoubtedly has flaws that are inherent in the medium, including a difficulty reproducing low bass, distortion, and loss of fidelity as the needle gets closer to the center of the album, that digital just doesn't have. If I wanted to introduce euphonic distortion into my system I'd just play around with EQs or even tubes. If you think 320 and lossless are "indestinguishable" I really have to beg to differ, but agree on most everything else. Hydrogen audio forums is a good read on this subject: hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,72542.0.html You can also set up ABX tests yourself with Foobar. Just make sure your samples are from the same source. I've been very surprised in my years involved in audio about what I can and can't hear in such tests. Again, I do FLAC because I'm a paranoid perfectionist, but I wouldn't bet I could pass any ABX test with FLAC vs 320. Here's a site with a link to some ABX tests: thenextweb.com/plugged/2018/09/07/prove-your-audiophile-skills-with-this-blind-test-on-lossless-music/
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maxwellperfect
Junior Member
@maxwellperfect
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Post by maxwellperfect on Feb 12, 2020 5:48:44 GMT
I'm old enough to have had a vinyl collection before cd's hit the market, and I'm fine with never buying another record again. I have such a large collection, it would be impossibly unwieldy in L.P. form. I'll gladly trade the supposed audial superiority of vinyl for the low-maintenance convenience of cd's and will happily live without the pops, scratches and random skipping of vinyl. And I say "phooey" to anyone who claims surface noise is a virtue, even if it is John Peel. Phooey, I say!
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Post by Zos on Feb 12, 2020 19:44:22 GMT
I'm old enough to have had a vinyl collection before cd's hit the market, and I'm fine with never buying another record again. I have such a large collection, it would be impossibly unwieldy in L.P. form. I'll gladly trade the supposed audial superiority of vinyl for the low-maintenance convenience of cd's and will happily live without the pops, scratches and random skipping of vinyl. And I say "phooey" to anyone who claims surface noise is a virtue, even if it is John Peel. Phooey, I say! No one says "phooey" to John Peel on my watch! Outside now!
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maxwellperfect
Junior Member
@maxwellperfect
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 1,683
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Post by maxwellperfect on Feb 13, 2020 2:51:33 GMT
I'm old enough to have had a vinyl collection before cd's hit the market, and I'm fine with never buying another record again. I have such a large collection, it would be impossibly unwieldy in L.P. form. I'll gladly trade the supposed audial superiority of vinyl for the low-maintenance convenience of cd's and will happily live without the pops, scratches and random skipping of vinyl. And I say "phooey" to anyone who claims surface noise is a virtue, even if it is John Peel. Phooey, I say! No one says "phooey" to John Peel on my watch! Outside now! Yes, sir. 
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