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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Feb 18, 2020 11:12:25 GMT
The whole thing of Padme "lost the will to live" is still one of the stupidest plot points (or plot hole since it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense) by Lucas. Obviously it's all speculation because that's all you can do, but could have it been the Emperor who killed Padme?Anakin had just been burned alive, and even though he's using the dark side to keep himself alive, could have the Emperor also been draining Padme's life force to help keep Anakin alive as well? It's honestly the only thing that makes sense since Lucas retcon Padme's death and her pregnancy and who knew about it from the OT. I still believe that Leia was aware of her adoption (because what parent wouldn't let their foster child know this??) and Padme just stayed with Leia and the Organa's till her death while Obi-Wan took Luke to keep him safe.
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Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
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Post by Jason143 on Feb 18, 2020 13:43:13 GMT
She died in childbirth didnt she? They do say the lines lost the will to live but I always thought that was just passing dialogue and in fact she died as forseen after giving birth to twins.
I dont see how Palpitine could have killed her although it would make sense from his motivations to keep Anakin focused on his mision with no distractions, thats why he didn't tell him about Luke and Leia.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 18, 2020 14:20:56 GMT
The whole thing of Padme "lost the will to live" is still one of the stupidest plot points (or plot hole since it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense) by Lucas. I find your lack of education disturbing. It's called Psychogenic Death, or "GiveUpItis" by the laymen. It's a real phenomenon in scientific literature and in fiction literature. " It isn't suicide, it isn't linked to depression, but the act of giving up on life and dying usually within days, is a very real condition often linked to severe trauma." bigthink.com/mind-brain/can-you-die-from-giving-upwww.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/people-really-do-die-from-losing-their-will-to-live-new-study-defines-giveupitis/it could have been as much Palpatine could have been behind his mother's death to trigger his rage. It's a valid interpretation but not corroborated by anything in the films. In the end this is just an - artistically inferior - fan theory as it shifts away all responsibility from Anakin and his choices (Palpatine is behind it all) - and this negates the moral tale that Revenge of the Sith is: - Anakin, by fearing to lose, betrays and destroys the ones he swore to protect and love. He causes the very thing he tried to prevent. - Palpatine keeps his promise discovering the secret by keeping Anakin from dying (whether by Force or via tech suit is left open) and thus "ironically" mirrors Plagueis fate. lol, yes, magic is the only explanation for the ignorant. Only an sithhead deals in absolutes... non sequitur and false cause. Believe what you want, but those with knowledge do not have to believe everything.
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Post by politicidal on Feb 18, 2020 14:22:42 GMT
She died in childbirth didnt she? They do say the lines lost the will to live but I always thought that was just passing dialogue and in fact she died as forseen after giving birth to twins. I dont see how Palpitine could have killed her although it would make sense from his motivations to keep Anakin focused on his mision with no distractions, thats why he didn't tell him about Luke and Leia. This. The shock of what happened on Mustafar and the stress of childbirth combined. It does sound more insidious on Palpatine’s part.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Feb 18, 2020 16:11:47 GMT
The whole thing of Padme "lost the will to live" is still one of the stupidest plot points (or plot hole since it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense) by Lucas. I find your lack of education disturbing. It's called Psychogenic Death, or "GiveUpItis" by the laymen. It's a real phenomenon in scientific literature and in fiction literature. " It isn't suicide, it isn't linked to depression, but the act of giving up on life and dying usually within days, is a very real condition often linked to severe trauma." bigthink.com/mind-brain/can-you-die-from-giving-upwww.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/people-really-do-die-from-losing-their-will-to-live-new-study-defines-giveupitis/it could have been as much Palpatine could have been behind his mother's death to trigger his rage. It's a valid interpretation but not corroborated by anything in the films. In the end this is just an - artistically inferior - fan theory as it shifts away all responsibility from Anakin and his choices (Palpatine is behind it all) - and this negates the moral tale that Revenge of the Sith is: - Anakin, by fearing to lose, betrays and destroys the ones he swore to protect and love. He causes the very thing he tried to prevent. - Palpatine keeps his promise discovering the secret by keeping Anakin from dying (whether by Force or via tech suit is left open) and thus "ironically" mirrors Plagueis fate. lol, yes, magic is the only explanation for the ignorant. Only an sithhead deals in absolutes... non sequitur and false cause. Believe what you want, but those with knowledge do not have to believe everything. Yeah, it's in scientific literature and fiction. But no real cases of it. And I doubt that's what Lucas had in mind when he wrote that scene too. Your theory may be based on a real phenomenon, but mine is collaborated by the films, the prequels and the OT. It's explicitly said that everyone is surrounded by the force and it's what binds everyone and the galaxy. So essentially everyone has a life force, and it can even bring two together to form and even stronger connection with the force, like with Anakin and Padme. And based on the film itself and even the auxiliary material such as the Plagueis book, the Emperor knows how to manipulate the force in probably just about anyway, so it's not far fetched he could sever someone's life force and even transfer it to someone else, like Anakin who was only keeping himself alive thru the dark side. So yeah, I would say the force actually makes a hell of a lot more sense than some real life phenomenon because that's the kind of universe it is.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 18, 2020 17:56:46 GMT
I find your lack of education disturbing. It's called Psychogenic Death, or "GiveUpItis" by the laymen. It's a real phenomenon in scientific literature and in fiction literature. " It isn't suicide, it isn't linked to depression, but the act of giving up on life and dying usually within days, is a very real condition often linked to severe trauma." bigthink.com/mind-brain/can-you-die-from-giving-upwww.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/people-really-do-die-from-losing-their-will-to-live-new-study-defines-giveupitis/it could have been as much Palpatine could have been behind his mother's death to trigger his rage. It's a valid interpretation but not corroborated by anything in the films. In the end this is just an - artistically inferior - fan theory as it shifts away all responsibility from Anakin and his choices (Palpatine is behind it all) - and this negates the moral tale that Revenge of the Sith is: - Anakin, by fearing to lose, betrays and destroys the ones he swore to protect and love. He causes the very thing he tried to prevent. - Palpatine keeps his promise discovering the secret by keeping Anakin from dying (whether by Force or via tech suit is left open) and thus "ironically" mirrors Plagueis fate. lol, yes, magic is the only explanation for the ignorant. Only an sithhead deals in absolutes... non sequitur and false cause. Believe what you want, but those with knowledge do not have to believe everything. Yeah, it's in scientific literature and fiction. But no real cases of it. dude, it's real read the articles and research it. It is said C Fishers mother died that way too; I have seen it with healthy persons dying a month after their life partner was gone. So there is that since the dawn of mankind. you cannot even fathom the mind of Lucas. Your theory sounds like fine fan fiction. The issue is you thereby destroy any subtext and layer of the story. Lucas wanted a moral tale of an originally good person destroying everything he fought for by his own design, not the Sith devil doing it for him. The point of Padme not dying (merely) of physical injury was to show that Anakin with his dark deeds destroyed everything that defined her and what she fought for: liberty, democracy, their marriage and family. He snuffed her out. It's not just a case of physical domestic violence gone wrong, but deeper than that.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 18, 2020 18:17:02 GMT
Padme-cake, Padme-cake, Vader's man
Kill my wife as fast as you can
Dreams and premonitions to me you give
And now Padme has lost the will to live!
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Feb 18, 2020 18:48:02 GMT
Yeah, it's in scientific literature and fiction. But no real cases of it. dude, it's real read the articles and research it. It is said C Fishers mother died that way too; I have seen it with healthy persons dying a month after their life partner was gone. So there is that since the dawn of mankind. you cannot even fathom the mind of Lucas. Your theory sounds like fine fan fiction. The issue is you thereby destroy any subtext and layer of the story. Lucas wanted a moral tale of an originally good person destroying everything he fought for by his own design, not the Sith devil doing it for him. The point of Padme not dying (merely) of physical injury was to show that Anakin with his dark deeds destroyed everything that defined her and what she fought for: liberty, democracy, their marriage and family. He snuffed her out. It's not just a case of physical domestic violence gone wrong, but deeper than that. Pure speculative on your part as well and just as much of a fan fiction as anyone else's. But for the sake of argument, if Anakin was really meant to go a full circle of becoming evil and destroying his name and becoming Darth Vader and snuffing out everything Padme stood for as you put it, it would have made more sense if his final act of destroying everything Padme stood for is killing her himself, physically, whether impaling her with his lightsaber. To give credit where due, Lucas had actually set that up really well when Anakin thought she brought Obi-Wan to kill him. And Anakin's fall from grace was actually by design by the Emperor. The entire film and the prequels series as a whole, he's been lying and manipulating Anakin and making him seem more important and more powerful than the other Jedis than he really is. I don't know what you follow from the expanded universe material and what you consider canon, but the expanded lore even say right down to Anakin's birth, the Emperor already had plans. The final insult as it is really should be the Emperor killing Padme and even lying and saying it was Anakin's fault to give him that final push to the Dark Side. Not to mention, how did the Emperor know she was dead when Anakin asked if she was alright?
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Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
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Post by Jason143 on Feb 18, 2020 19:01:52 GMT
the Emperor knows how to manipulate the force in probably just about anyway, so it's not far fetched he could sever someone's life force and even transfer it to someone else, like Anakin who was only keeping himself alive thru the dark side. So yeah, I would say the force actually makes a hell of a lot more sense than some real life phenomenon because that's the kind of universe it is. Severing someones life force isnt something thats been done before I believe so it gives no support historically to why it could be done here, not even an implication. When Palpitine is retelling the tale of Darth Plaugeous the wise to Anakin, he mentions that his mentor could even manipulate the midochlorians to create life itself. He says this is in a wondrous, mythical tone insinuating that the peak power of the dark side is to create life without traditional biology. Now you might extrapolate this to assume well if he can create life, then he can end it. But this is speculation not grounded in any evidence.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 18, 2020 22:25:26 GMT
The whole thing of Padme "lost the will to live" is still one of the stupidest plot points (or plot hole since it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense) by Lucas. Period.
That's hard to accept, because it means that you have to accept that its just something stupid that happened. But we want better. We want more. So we either... A) Apologize for Lucas by saying something like "that could happen! How do you know it cant happen?! Its his movie, so if he says it happened then that's what happened!" OR B) Come up with our own non-canon, fan-fic reason why it does work. OR C) Just accept that it's fucking stupid.
Personally, I was always able to do (C) right from TPM on, because there are just too many moments of that sort of thing happening throughout the PT. Too many. After a while, you just have to accept it.
Why the fuck would a mother about to give birth lose the will to live when she had parenting to two beautiful children to look forward to? It doesn't make sense! A mother WANTS to live for her children! It's stupid.
Especially when there's a better reason to have her die then. Complications in childbirth. Or even injuries from the force choke Anakin did to her. Any of which would have been much more plausible explanations.
But instead she "lost the will to live". WTF? Was Anakins dick THAT good? Maybe he was using force cock or something. I gotta learn that shit.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 19, 2020 14:00:49 GMT
The whole thing of Padme "lost the will to live" is still one of the stupidest plot points (or plot hole since it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense) by Lucas. Period.
C) Just accept that it's fucking stupid.
A mother WANTS to live for her children! It's stupid.
But instead she "lost the will to live".
WTF? Was Anakins dick THAT good? Maybe he was using force cock or something. I gotta learn that shit.
^ cringe², dude you are embarrassing.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Feb 19, 2020 14:22:02 GMT
No it was Obi-Wan
He poisoned her when she was giving birth. A poison that made it look like she died in childbirth.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 19, 2020 14:54:42 GMT
Period.
C) Just accept that it's fucking stupid.
A mother WANTS to live for her children! It's stupid.
But instead she "lost the will to live".
WTF? Was Anakins dick THAT good? Maybe he was using force cock or something. I gotta learn that shit.
^ cringe², dude you are embarrassing.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Feb 20, 2020 10:37:44 GMT
Period.
C) Just accept that it's fucking stupid.
A mother WANTS to live for her children! It's stupid.
But instead she "lost the will to live".
WTF? Was Anakins dick THAT good? Maybe he was using force cock or something. I gotta learn that shit.
^ cringe², dude you are embarrassing. Not as much of a embarrassment as you are bro. You can chalk up the prequel series as this deep and resonating trilogy with all these political and moral subtexts and underlying themes, and Lucas as this masterful director, but at the end of the day, the general consensus is that the prequel series as a whole is very mediocre at best, with Sith really being the only good one. It's even disingenuous to the OT because of some of the core elements and specific dialogue of the OT that Lucas either decided to retcon or just couldn't follow consistently, and Padme's death and the birth of the twins is a glaring one.
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shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
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Post by shinnickneth on Feb 20, 2020 19:55:49 GMT
dude, it's real read the articles and research it. It is said C Fishers mother died that way too; I have seen it with healthy persons dying a month after their life partner was gone. So there is that since the dawn of mankind. you cannot even fathom the mind of Lucas. Your theory sounds like fine fan fiction. The issue is you thereby destroy any subtext and layer of the story. Lucas wanted a moral tale of an originally good person destroying everything he fought for by his own design, not the Sith devil doing it for him. The point of Padme not dying (merely) of physical injury was to show that Anakin with his dark deeds destroyed everything that defined her and what she fought for: liberty, democracy, their marriage and family. He snuffed her out. It's not just a case of physical domestic violence gone wrong, but deeper than that. Yes, Debbie Reynolds. She died on 12-28-16, while Carrie Fisher died on 12-27-16. They were extremely close with each other and lived on the same property next to each other. There's a documentary on them titled, Bright Lights: Starring Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds. It chronicles some of their last days together. It's said that Debbie was distraught when Carrie died...the poor thing. It does happen with people who had close relationships. June Carter and Johnny Cash died within months of each other in 2003 as well.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Feb 21, 2020 15:06:39 GMT
^ cringe², dude you are embarrassing. Not as much of a embarrassment as you are bro. I must be ludicrously embarrassing then considering his message, brah. I am not a bandwagon sheeple. I do not derive my opinions from authority or the general consensus, or your perceptions of what the general consensus should be. Try it too someday.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Feb 21, 2020 17:17:23 GMT
Not as much of a embarrassment as you are bro. I must be ludicrously embarrassing then considering his message, brah. I am not a bandwagon sheeple. I do not derive my opinions from authority or the general consensus, or your perceptions of what the general consensus should be. Try it too someday. Oh neither do I and no one on here either. They're all their own opinions unless you're saying anyone who hate the prequels are just following what the critics say.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 22, 2020 4:55:28 GMT
No. He did not kill her. It’s not unheard of for someone to die from grief, and Star Wars is a fantasy universe anyway.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Feb 22, 2020 14:23:09 GMT
^ cringe², dude you are embarrassing. Not as much of a embarrassment as you are bro. You can chalk up the prequel series as this deep and resonating trilogy with all these political and moral subtexts and underlying themes, and Lucas as this masterful director, but at the end of the day, the general consensus is that the prequel series as a whole is very mediocre at best, with Sith really being the only good one. It's even disingenuous to the OT because of some of the core elements and specific dialogue of the OT that Lucas either decided to retcon or just couldn't follow consistently, and Padme's death and the birth of the twins is a glaring one. Are you going to tell me that the Disney sequel trilogy is written any less stupider? Or has less “ridiculous” plot holes?
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Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 23, 2020 3:57:24 GMT
Anakin's force choke is my take. Sure she wasn't dead there, but couple that with being pregnant with twins, & her entire worlds being scorched, I'd say she did give up after childbirth.
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