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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2017 16:14:06 GMT
So in our semi final round we wound up with a tie between two big time MCU films for 2nd place. Pick the best films, and the winner goes on to meet The Winter Soldier. I'm only going to leave this one open until the end of the weekend.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 26, 2017 17:06:12 GMT
The Avengers
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2017 17:44:47 GMT
I've got to be honest, Civil War is far more clever. Avengers is unbelievably amazing, a landmark film. But Civil War is on the next level. Blending so many character arc together, weaving multiple plot threads seamlessly, and still having time to nail the introduction of two major characters. I don't even see the argument that Avengers is the better film. I think Civil War is by far the best comic book film ever made. I don't even think it's close.
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Post by spooner5020 on Apr 26, 2017 17:48:45 GMT
I think Civil War is the better film. I still think Avengers was a great movie,but Civil War is smarter and love the fact Spider-Man is in it. It makes me annoyed though when people say they didn't like it because it was nothing like the comic. It was never going to be.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2017 17:54:49 GMT
I think Civil War is the better film. I still think Avengers was a great movie,but Civil War is smarter and love the fact Spider-Man is in it. It makes me annoyed though when people say they didn't like it because it was nothing like the comic. It was never going to be. That is weird to say it wasn't like the comics. Of course it wasn't. The MCU isn't trying to match the comics exactly. It's an alternate universe that is trying to reflect the vibe of the comics and hit a few key points.
So Loki invades Earth, but he doesn't do it in the exact same way.
Thanos collects the infinity gems, but he's not going to do it in the exact same way.
If anybody is sitting around thinking it's going to be the exact story of the comics, they're making a big mistake.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 26, 2017 18:09:35 GMT
I've got to be honest, Civil War is far more clever. Avengers is unbelievably amazing, a landmark film. But Civil War is on the next level. Blending so many character arc together, weaving multiple plot threads seamlessly, and still having time to nail the introduction of two major characters. I don't even see the argument that Avengers is the better film. I think Civil War is by far the best comic book film ever made. I don't even think it's close. Civil War does a great job weaving so many characters into a cohesive storyline, and it certainly has a more emotionally affective third act. But I thought it took too many shortcuts to get there. Zemo's plan being dependent on Tony finding out about the mask at the right time, Ant-Man and Spider-Man having no logical reason or motivation to take part in the airport fight, literally nobody taking 5 minutes to understand where the other side is coming from, etc. I love both flicks, and frankly, Cap's outfit alone makes The Avengers seem dated already-- but the deciding factor for me was the pure joy of The Avengers. Civil War is a downer in too many ways. Watching two heroes fight each other nearly to the death when a conversation could have resolved everything leaves you feeling disappointed in both of them. The action in Civil War gives it an edge over anything we see in the Avengers; yet (at least for me) when the credits roll, I feel like I could go back and watch Avengers again immediately while Civil War makes me want to talk to the characters through the screen like when the defense on my favorite team gives up an easy score. In the end, there is no wrong answer here. Both films are awesome in their own way and the positives far outweigh the negatives.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2017 18:22:21 GMT
I've got to be honest, Civil War is far more clever. Avengers is unbelievably amazing, a landmark film. But Civil War is on the next level. Blending so many character arc together, weaving multiple plot threads seamlessly, and still having time to nail the introduction of two major characters. I don't even see the argument that Avengers is the better film. I think Civil War is by far the best comic book film ever made. I don't even think it's close. Civil War does a great job weaving so many characters into a cohesive storyline, and it certainly has a more emotionally effective third act. But I thought it took too many shortcuts to get there. Zemo's plan being dependent on Tony finding out about the mask at the right time, Ant-Man and Spider-Man having no logical reason or motivation to take part in the airport fight, literally nobody taking 5 minutes to understand where the other side is coming from, etc. I love both flicks, and frankly, Cap's outfit alone makes The Avengers seem dated already-- but the deciding factor for me was the pure joy of The Avengers. Civil War is a downer in too many ways. Watching two heroes fight each other nearly to the death when a conversation could have resolved everything leaves you feeling disappointed in both of them. The action in Civil War gives it an edge over anything we see in the Avengers; yet (at least for me) when the credits roll, I feel like I could go back and watch Avengers again immediately while Civil War makes me want to talk to the characters through the screen like when the defense on my favorite team gives up an easy score. In the end, there is no wrong answer here. Both films are awesome in their own way and the positives far outweigh the negatives. What decided it for me was the absolutely mastery of character development in Civil War, although I agree, you can't truly say there's a wrong answer.
A few notes on your comments
Ant Man and Spidey were asked to participate. I don't see that as being a shortcut at all. I've asked friends to help me move, the only motivation needed here is they respect the person asking them. No other reason is required.
Zemo's plan was fine. A little convenient at times, ok, but I mean really, how picky are we getting here?
And I thought both sides already well understood where the others were coming from. Tony did not trust any information coming from Bucky and Cap didn't care about Tony's new rules. I could explain it more, but it would take awhile, but suffice it to say I thought it was pretty clear.
Caps outfit in Avengers was the direct result of Colson's design, so that's why it's more comicbooky. I don't see that as dated, just a fan costume quite literally.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 26, 2017 19:08:30 GMT
Civil War does a great job weaving so many characters into a cohesive storyline, and it certainly has a more emotionally effective third act. But I thought it took too many shortcuts to get there. Zemo's plan being dependent on Tony finding out about the mask at the right time, Ant-Man and Spider-Man having no logical reason or motivation to take part in the airport fight, literally nobody taking 5 minutes to understand where the other side is coming from, etc. I love both flicks, and frankly, Cap's outfit alone makes The Avengers seem dated already-- but the deciding factor for me was the pure joy of The Avengers. Civil War is a downer in too many ways. Watching two heroes fight each other nearly to the death when a conversation could have resolved everything leaves you feeling disappointed in both of them. The action in Civil War gives it an edge over anything we see in the Avengers; yet (at least for me) when the credits roll, I feel like I could go back and watch Avengers again immediately while Civil War makes me want to talk to the characters through the screen like when the defense on my favorite team gives up an easy score. In the end, there is no wrong answer here. Both films are awesome in their own way and the positives far outweigh the negatives. What decided it for me was the absolutely mastery of character development in Civil War, although I agree, you can't truly say there's a wrong answer.
A few notes on your comments
Ant Man and Spidey were asked to participate. I don't see that as being a shortcut at all. I've asked friends to help me move, the only motivation needed here is they respect the person asking them. No other reason is required.
Zemo's plan was fine. A little convenient at times, ok, but I mean really, how picky are we getting here?
And I thought both sides already well understood where the others were coming from. Tony did not trust any information coming from Bucky and Cap didn't care about Tony's new rules. I could explain it more, but it would take awhile, but suffice it to say I thought it was pretty clear.
Caps outfit in Avengers was the direct result of Colson's design, so that's why it's more comicbooky. I don't see that as dated, just a fan costume quite literally.
Loved what they did with Black Panther in CW. 30 seconds of screen time and you understand T'Challa and his father, their relationship and their world view. Masterful stuff. Less impressive was Ant-Man's inclusion. His entire motivation in his own flick was to be a better father; yet he immediately signs up for a job that will likely land him in prison for breaking international law. He didn't even know these people. Meanwhile Tony signs the accords because he feels guilty about collateral damage-- so he recruits a high school student for a potential standoff with super powered terrorists. The Zemo thing wasn't that big of a deal because you could argue he would've waited for Tony to come eventually, it wouldn't have taken long regardless. But it was convenient that he and Cap showed up at the same time. Cap & Tony's perspectives were totally clear. They just didn't listen to each other. Given the events of TWS, Caps point of view regarding government oversight was totally understandable. But he had to know the world was never going to accept global vigilantism. Black Widow had the most sensible perspective on the situation, and if not for the sake of the plot, he would've listened to her. Nobody bothered to point out that the alien invasion or any of the examples Sec. Ross brought up would've been exponentially worse if the Avengers had not intervened. Nobody pointed out to Tony that the Ultron fiasco was his fault, not the Avengers. For that matter, the airport battle itself was filled with reckless behavior. Scarlet Witch is throwing cars at people! Cap drops a jet bridge onto Spidey's head without any reason to suspect he could carry the weight. I'm trying to imagine what would've happened to Falcon if Vision's laser had hit him instead of War Machine. It was an awesome action set piece. Awesome. But you take a step back and you have to ask yourself why they're being rougher with each other than they are with the villains they fight. Individually any of these things can be excused and forgotten as part of a larger action sequence. But when they continue to prove that the heroes in this flick simply aren't thinking most of the time, it's a problem. I love both flicks. I saw Avengers in theaters four times and CW three, I don't need to be convinced they were both great. But something about the internal logic of CW is always going to seem off to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 4:41:24 GMT
My top two are Iron Man and Winter Soldier but to each his own.
Avengers is is good fun but it relies a lot on the novelty of the team up. Which is fine but I find the story to be a bit lacking. An alien invasion just isn't very compelling compared to the Hydra conspiracy or Tony's war against his own company. I love the characters and all their dynamics but ultimately it's just a fun popcorn flick and not too much more. It does have a lot of charm though.
Civil War is pretty great. It's probably my third fav in the MCU. The plot is very very contrived but that doesn't bother me too much. So between the two CW gets my vote. The above poster does make some great points though. That moment when Cap drops the bridge on Spidey always gets me. HOW DID HE KNOW THAT WOULDNT HAVE SQUASHED HIM??? Seriously?!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 5:50:32 GMT
My vote goes to Avengers because it's not just my favorite movie out of the MCU, it's one of my favorite comic book movies, period.
I agree with a lot of what the poster above me has already said regarding the pure joy of the movie, specifically the moment we saw the team come together on the big screen for the first time. I must have had the biggest, silliest smile on my face for pretty much the entire movie. Nothing beats that for me. As a child it never even occurred to me to dream that I'd be able to see my favorite comic book characters come to life like this. What a thrill The Avengers was and what an exciting ride the MCU has given and continues to give us.
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Post by miike80 on Apr 27, 2017 6:21:00 GMT
My vote goes to Avengers because it's not just my favorite movie out of the MCU, it's one of my favorite comic book movies, period. I agree with a lot of what the poster above me has already said regarding the pure joy of the movie, specifically the moment we saw the team come together on the big screen for the first time. I must have had the biggest, silliest smile on my face for pretty much the entire movie. Nothing beats that for me. As a child it never even occurred to me to dream that I'd be able to see my favorite comic book characters come to life like this. What a thrill The Avengers was and what an exciting ride the MCU has given and continues to give us. The exact reason I voted for Avengers also
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 27, 2017 15:03:48 GMT
My vote goes to Avengers because it's not just my favorite movie out of the MCU, it's one of my favorite comic book movies, period. I agree with a lot of what the poster above me has already said regarding the pure joy of the movie, specifically the moment we saw the team come together on the big screen for the first time. I must have had the biggest, silliest smile on my face for pretty much the entire movie. Nothing beats that for me. As a child it never even occurred to me to dream that I'd be able to see my favorite comic book characters come to life like this. What a thrill The Avengers was and what an exciting ride the MCU has given and continues to give us. The exact reason I voted for Avengers also The funny part is, that's why I vote for Civil War. With all of those characters interacting, it's the film I geek out for even more even without considering the masterfully woven multiple plot threads. Basically anything great you can say about Avengers, I think was even better in Civil War.
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Post by miike80 on Apr 27, 2017 15:55:39 GMT
The exact reason I voted for Avengers also The funny part is, that's why I vote for Civil War. With all of those characters interacting, it's the film I geek out for even more even without considering the masterfully woven multiple plot threads. Basically anything great you can say about Avengers, I think was even better in Civil War. I love Civil War, don't get me wrong, but The Avengers was the event, seeing all those heroes together was novelty at the time
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 27, 2017 17:00:44 GMT
The funny part is, that's why I vote for Civil War. With all of those characters interacting, it's the film I geek out for even more even without considering the masterfully woven multiple plot threads. Basically anything great you can say about Avengers, I think was even better in Civil War. I love Civil War, don't get me wrong, but The Avengers was the event, seeing all those heroes together was novelty at the time Oh I fully agree. Avengers was the event. In terms of must see, yes Avengers is the king, so if that's the criteria, then I don't disagree. I just think Civil War was unquestionably a much more creative and masterful writing project.
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Post by miike80 on Apr 27, 2017 17:11:06 GMT
I love Civil War, don't get me wrong, but The Avengers was the event, seeing all those heroes together was novelty at the time Oh I fully agree. Avengers was the event. In terms of must see, yes Avengers is the king, so if that's the criteria, then I don't disagree. I just think Civil War was unquestionably a much more creative and masterful writing project. It's also the MCU movie i've seen most times ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) but it was really hard picking one of those two
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 27, 2017 21:25:17 GMT
I'm honestly surprised it didn't come down to Winter Soldier vs Civil War because if that was the case I would've voted Winter Soldier no doubt, that film was near perfect, but since it's down to The Avengers vs Civil War then that's a tough one, both great movies (not quite as amazing as Winter Soldier) but Civil War was far deeper and more complex despite The Avengers having a bigger impact. This isn't the final. These two were just tied for second, so it's a play in to meet Winter Soldier.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 23:59:45 GMT
I'm honestly surprised it didn't come down to Winter Soldier vs Civil War because if that was the case I would've voted Winter Soldier no doubt, that film was near perfect, but since it's down to The Avengers vs Civil War then that's a tough one, both great movies (not quite as amazing as Winter Soldier) but Civil War was far deeper and more complex despite The Avengers having a bigger impact. This isn't the final. These two were just tied for second, so it's a play in to meet Winter Soldier. Well this is awkward, I should've read your first post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 6:37:30 GMT
I personally didn't feel Civil War flowed as well as Avengers. The movie felt rushed as if part of the story got cut or glossed over so that they could get everybody on the screen together and give the audience a big fight. I get that that's the nature of things when adapting something from one medium to another but I really felt like I was seeing an incredibly abbreviated version of something that should have been bigger and deeper than what we got (and no, I never read Civil War so I'm not comparing it to the comic book).
Avengers flowed more smoothly and naturally imo. Maybe it's because it had five other movies leading to its release so a lot of the story had already been built up through these previous movies and it didn't feel like a lot of things were missing. Maybe it was the first team-up movie of its kind so I'm just biased. Maybe it all just comes down to personal preference and what works for me doesn't work for someone else. Either way, I think both movies are good. I just prefer Avengers and tend to rewatch it more often.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 28, 2017 14:37:07 GMT
I personally didn't feel Civil War flowed as well as Avengers. The movie felt rushed as if part of the story got cut or glossed over so that they could get everybody on the screen together and give the audience a big fight. I get that that's the nature of things when adapting something from one medium to another but I really felt like I was seeing an incredibly abbreviated version of something that should have been bigger and deeper than what we got (and no, I never read Civil War so I'm not comparing it to the comic book). Avengers flowed more smoothly and naturally imo. Maybe it's because it had five other movies leading to its release so a lot of the story had already been built up through these previous movies and it didn't feel like a lot of things were missing. Maybe it was the first team-up movie of its kind so I'm just biased. Maybe it all just comes down to personal preference and what works for me doesn't work for someone else. Either way, I think both movies are good. I just prefer Avengers and tend to rewatch it more often. Hum, I didn't feel that way at all. I thought it took a lot of time building to the situation. They didn't have the group melee until after their initial hunting of Crossbones led to the explosion, and then days of buildup to being presented with the Accords, and then Peggy died, and then the UN bombing, and then tracking down bucky, and then bucky's escape, and introducing spiderman, and then the airport battle.
I don't see how that's rushing anything to be honest. I felt like I can watch every second over and over and it's a nice slow build.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 28, 2017 22:22:33 GMT
Hmm... hard call to make. Avengers is just so much fun and I have to say I liked it better, but Civil War was a harder movie to make with better acting all around and a more emotionally oriented storyline, not to mention a final fight that had more impact.
So with that said, I have to give it to Civil War.
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