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Post by Vits on May 2, 2020 21:29:02 GMT
In the case of Revenge of the Nerds the girl is seen as one of the villains and I don't think the movie is saying that what he does is okay, it is a comedy that is purposely pushing a moral boundary. I assume you have never watched shows like Family Guy and American Dad, because both of those shows have done far worse stuff than Revenge of the Nerds. Archer? Have you watched that show? That show is about a narcissistic womanizer. The difference is that when those animated shows cross a line, they do it with self-awareness. In REVENGE OF THE NERDS, what Lewis does is presented as naughty and cheeky behavior. A prank of sorts, if you will. There's no acknowledgement of it being a form of rape. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Betty's reaction had been more appropriate, but nope. She gets angry for a couple of seconds, but then realizes that she enjoyed it, so they become a couple. Also, Lewis doesn't do this as part of his revenge plan, so I think Betty initially being a villain is irrelevant to this topic. Family Guy has a joke that insinuates that Quagmire rapes Maggie Simpson. I think (and hope) you're talking about Marge.
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Post by moviemouth on May 2, 2020 21:45:53 GMT
In the case of Revenge of the Nerds the girl is seen as one of the villains and I don't think the movie is saying that what he does is okay, it is a comedy that is purposely pushing a moral boundary. I assume you have never watched shows like Family Guy and American Dad, because both of those shows have done far worse stuff than Revenge of the Nerds. Archer? Have you watched that show? That show is about a narcissistic womanizer. The difference is that when those animated shows cross a line, they do it with self-awareness. In REVENGE OF THE NERDS, what Lewis does is presented as naughty and cheeky behavior. A prank of sorts, if you will. There's no acknowledgement of it being a form of rape. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Betty's reaction had been more appropriate, but nope. She gets angry for a couple of seconds, but then realizes that she enjoyed it, so they become a couple. Also, Lewis doesn't do this as part of his revenge plan, so I think Betty initially being a villain is irrelevant to this topic. Family Guy has a joke that insinuates that Quagmire rapes Maggie Simpson. I think (and hope) you're talking about Marge. I said that I don't support that scene in Revenge of the Nerds. My point was about what TV shows get away with these days compared to movies. Most movies now aren't even allowed or are too afraid to make self-aware jokes about morally questionable things. The scene in Revenge of the Nerds is pandering to the nerds. She is portrayed as one of the "villains" and therefor the rape is taken with a grain of salt and I think it was a horrible choice by the director. I can't speak for the reaction that the writer was trying to get from the audience. I don't assume such things, but in this case it feels gross. There is a similar moment in Sixteen Candles and I give that scene a pass because it is the only seen that bothers me, but it still has a bit of an icky feeling to it. I am talking about Maggie and that is part of the point I am making. That moment isn't self-aware, it is just offensive and shocking for the sake of it. It is one of the most disgusting scenes in the entire show. We see the outside of The Simpsons house and we hear Homer walk in on Quagmire having sex with Marge. Quagmire then kills the entire family and when he gets to Maggie it is subtly insinuated that he makes her give him oral sex before killing her. I see certain things in movies as challenges to the viewers morality and maybe if the rest of Revenge of the Nerds wasn't so unfunny and unlikable then I might have give that scene a pass as well. I don't judge movies in that black and white way. There are things I think and do that are immoral, I don't pretend that I don't. My moral virtues outweigh the dark side of me. I judge movies in the same way.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 2, 2020 23:11:11 GMT
I think it’s a valid argument.
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Post by janntosh on May 3, 2020 4:17:42 GMT
Nope
If hearing an old song in a movie bothers you so much that’s on you. Not the movie
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Post by janntosh on May 3, 2020 4:18:30 GMT
The difference is that when those animated shows cross a line, they do it with self-awareness. In REVENGE OF THE NERDS, what Lewis does is presented as naughty and cheeky behavior. A prank of sorts, if you will. There's no acknowledgement of it being a form of rape. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Betty's reaction had been more appropriate, but nope. She gets angry for a couple of seconds, but then realizes that she enjoyed it, so they become a couple. Also, Lewis doesn't do this as part of his revenge plan, so I think Betty initially being a villain is irrelevant to this topic.I think (and hope) you're talking about Marge. I said that I don't support that scene in Revenge of the Nerds. My point was about what TV shows get away with these days compared to movies. Most movies now aren't even allowed or are too afraid to make self-aware jokes about morally questionable things. The scene in Revenge of the Nerds is pandering to the nerds. She is portrayed as one of the "villains" and therefor the rape is taken with a grain of salt and I think it was a horrible choice by the director. I can't speak for the reaction that the writer was trying to get from the audience. I don't assume such things, but in this case it feels gross. There is a similar moment in Sixteen Candles and I give that scene a pass because it is the only seen that bothers me, but it still has a bit of an icky feeling to it. I am talking about Maggie and that is part of the point I am making. That moment isn't self-aware, it is just offensive and shocking for the sake of it. It is one of the most disgusting scenes in the entire show. We see the outside of The Simpsons house and we hear Homer walk in on Quagmire having sex with Marge. Quagmire then kills the entire family and when he gets to Maggie it is subtly insinuated that he makes her give him oral sex before killing her. I see certain things in movies as challenges to the viewers morality and maybe if the rest of Revenge of the Nerds wasn't so unfunny and unlikable then I might have give that scene a pass as well. I don't judge movies in that black and white way. There are things I think and do that are immoral, I don't pretend that I don't. My moral virtues outweigh the dark side of me. I judge movies in the same way. Pretty much all comedy movies are considered offensive by snowflakes. Why do you think there are hardly any comedies, especially R rated ones right now?
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Post by janntosh on May 3, 2020 4:18:49 GMT
The difference is that when those animated shows cross a line, they do it with self-awareness. In REVENGE OF THE NERDS, what Lewis does is presented as naughty and cheeky behavior. A prank of sorts, if you will. There's no acknowledgement of it being a form of rape. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Betty's reaction had been more appropriate, but nope. She gets angry for a couple of seconds, but then realizes that she enjoyed it, The so they become a couple. Also, Lewis doesn't do this as part of his revenge plan, so I think Betty initially being a villain is irrelevant to this topic.I think (and hope) you're talking about Marge. I said that I don't support that scene in Revenge of the Nerds. My point was about what TV shows get away with these days compared to movies. Most movies now aren't even allowed or are too afraid to make self-aware jokes about morally questionable things. The scene in Revenge of the Nerds is pandering to the nerds. She is portrayed as one of the "villains" and therefor the rape is taken with a grain of salt and I think it was a horrible choice by the director. I can't speak for the reaction that the writer was trying to get from the audience. I don't assume such things, but in this case it feels gross. There is a similar moment in Sixteen Candles and I give that scene a pass because it is the only seen that bothers me, but it still has a bit of an icky feeling to it. I am talking about Maggie and that is part of the point I am making. That moment isn't self-aware, it is just offensive and shocking for the sake of it. It is one of the most disgusting scenes in the entire show. We see the outside of The Simpsons house and we hear Homer walk in on Quagmire having sex with Marge. Quagmire then kills the entire family and when he gets to Maggie it is subtly insinuated that he makes her give him oral sex before killing her. I see certain things in movies as challenges to the viewers morality and maybe if the rest of Revenge of the Nerds wasn't so unfunny and unlikable then I might have give that scene a pass as well. I don't judge movies in that black and white way. There are things I think and do that are immoral, I don't pretend that I don't. My moral virtues outweigh the dark side of me. I judge movies in the same way. Pretty much all comedy movies are considered offensive by snowflakes. Why do you think there are hardly any comedies, especially R rated ones right now?
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Post by Vits on May 3, 2020 8:01:06 GMT
I am talking about Maggie and that is part of the point I am making. That moment isn't self-aware, it is just offensive and shocking for the sake of it. It is one of the most disgusting scenes in the entire show. We see the outside of The Simpsons house and we hear Homer walk in on Quagmire having sex with Marge. Quagmire then kills the entire family and when he gets to Maggie it is subtly insinuated that he makes her give him oral sex before killing her. What's the name of the episode? By the way, by "self-aware" I meant that the writers knew what the subject they were making the joke was about, which wasn't the case with R.O.T.N. Pretty much all comedy movies are considered offensive by snowflakes. Why do you think there are hardly any comedies, especially R rated ones right now? It's the other way around. R-rated comedies have become more frequent and more mainstream since 2005.
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Post by mslo79 on May 3, 2020 12:57:35 GMT
It depends... if 'dated' means in all around style etc than I would say YES. because I think that's generally the main problem with movies pre-1960's is their overall style etc is just too different from more modern standards and it makes it more difficult to enjoy them, especially to a higher degree (as nearly everything that stands out for me is made in the 1960's to date lacking one movie (The Song of Bernadette (1943)). they just tend to lack giving us viewers a stronger emotional response on some level that more modern movies have.
but if someone said something was dated because it's pre-internet or pre-cell phone or something like that then I would disagree with that. because with old technology in old movies, that does not bother me at all.
but I tend to see the "not aged well" comment applying to movies that might have been good in their day but don't really work for viewers now etc. because not all movies are timeless that have appeal across generations of people.
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Post by moviemouth on May 3, 2020 15:38:34 GMT
I am talking about Maggie and that is part of the point I am making. That moment isn't self-aware, it is just offensive and shocking for the sake of it. It is one of the most disgusting scenes in the entire show. We see the outside of The Simpsons house and we hear Homer walk in on Quagmire having sex with Marge. Quagmire then kills the entire family and when he gets to Maggie it is subtly insinuated that he makes her give him oral sex before killing her. What's the name of the episode? By the way, by "self-aware" I meant that the writers knew what the subject they were making the joke was about, which wasn't the case with R.O.T.N.Pretty much all comedy movies are considered offensive by snowflakes. Why do you think there are hardly any comedies, especially R rated ones right now? It's the other way around. R-rated comedies have become more frequent and more mainstream since 2005. Either you aren't explaining it well or I am just not able to get what you are saying. Are you saying it isn't a joke about taking advantage of the hot girl and her liking it after? The way I see it, her liking it is what makes it a joke. If she was horrified after, then the joke would be missing the punchline.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on May 3, 2020 16:31:20 GMT
It depends... if 'dated' means in all around style etc than I would say YES. because I think that's generally the main problem with movies pre-1960's is their overall style etc is just too different from more modern standards and it makes it more difficult to enjoy them, especially to a higher degree (as nearly everything that stands out for me is made in the 1960's to date lacking one movie (The Song of Bernadette (1943)). they just tend to lack giving us viewers a stronger emotional response on some level that more modern movies have. but if someone said something was dated because it's pre-internet or pre-cell phone or something like that then I would disagree with that. because with old technology in old movies, that does not bother me at all. but I tend to see the "not aged well" comment applying to movies that might have been good in their day but don't really work for viewers now etc. because not all movies are timeless that have appeal across generations of people. Well that is just like your opinion, and considering that there are plenty of people who do enjoy the movies just fine, that argument is just wrong.
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Post by politicidal on May 3, 2020 16:52:16 GMT
Yes. But it can be misused in place of other faults the movie suffers from. I’ll say that it’s rare that the entire movie as a whole is noticeably dated, at least in my experience. Even with films, I despise, I’m actually trying hard to think of one that is especially bad because “Oh this has all the worst things movies did back specifically in 1983” or something like that.
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Post by Ass_E9 on May 3, 2020 17:25:41 GMT
Not in order to dismiss a movie outright. I guess it depends on what is being discussed? For example, a movie may be "dated" in such a way that it may be difficult to enjoy in the present day, but otherwise may be made expertly and serve as a valuable cultural artifact that reflects the attitudes of the time. Or be appreciated as a milestone that shows an intermediate step in technical innovation.
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Post by Vits on May 3, 2020 17:32:28 GMT
Are you saying it isn't a joke about taking advantage of the hot girl and her liking it after? The way I see it, her liking it is what makes it a joke. If she was horrified after, then the joke would be missing the punchline. I think the punchline is her initial reaction. She's shocked. If she hadn't changed her mind, it would've been a similar joke than the one earlier when the girls discover that the nerds are in their dorm.
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Post by rudeboy on May 7, 2020 11:47:05 GMT
I'm currently watching Frank Perry's David & Lisa, a critical sensation in its day, which is a good argument for a 'Yes' answer to this question.
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Post by Vits on May 7, 2020 15:38:02 GMT
I'm currently watching Frank Perry's David & Lisa, a critical sensation in its day, which is a good argument for a 'Yes' answer to this question. How so?
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Post by rudeboy on May 8, 2020 1:10:27 GMT
I'm currently watching Frank Perry's David & Lisa, a critical sensation in its day, which is a good argument for a 'Yes' answer to this question. How so? I guess films about mental health issues date more quickly and badly than most other types of movie, due to changing attitudes and developments in treatment etc. The film now comes across as florid and frequently silly, with some stiff acting not helping matters. The film is still watchable (unlike, say, The Three Faces of Eve, which is hopelessly wooden and poor) but hard to take seriously, with poor Janet Margolin communicating entirely in rhyme. A notable exception - and a much earlier film, even - is The Snake Pit, which has moments of silliness too but retains some power, at least in part due to de Havilland's superb performance.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on May 8, 2020 5:01:58 GMT
Worse still (and this applies to films, tv-series, music, and some may also apply it to books) IS..."It's BEFORE my time.". That's the LAMENT EXCUSE I've EVER heard.
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Post by Sarge on May 8, 2020 5:03:57 GMT
"Hasn't aged well" and "doesn't work" are often lazy criticism used when the person can't articulate their likes and dislikes but some movies are so steeped in their culture that today's audiences would find them offensive or incomprehensible, Weird Science, (previously mentioned) Revenge of the Nerds, Ferris Bueller, Easy Rider, Animal House, Fight Club, The Warriors.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on May 8, 2020 8:48:00 GMT
"Hasn't aged well" and "doesn't work" are often lazy criticism used when the person can't articulate their likes and dislikes but some movies are so steeped in their culture that today's audiences would find them offensive or incomprehensible, Weird Science, (previously mentioned) Revenge of the Nerds, Ferris Bueller, Easy Rider, Animal House, Fight Club, The Warriors. Pretty sure there are plenty of people who still enjoy those movies.
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Post by drystyx on May 8, 2020 17:16:18 GMT
I've already stated that it's a lame statement to say, and actually says more about the poster than the movie he or she speaks of.
I'll add that it's most likely used in something that it usually pertains to an event in the movie that we couldn't find believable if it was done today. And that doesn't make it "dated", because it's set in a different time period.
For example, today we all know the shell game and the three shells. But it's ridiculous to assume we'd all be psychic enough to know the trick if we lived in families of farmers, ranchers, even factory or warehouse workers, in 1880.
When events like this make a poster decide, subconsciously, to call a movie "dated", it says more about the poster's lack of ability and education than it does the movie. In fact, if a hero is too "streetwise" for the times, it actually puts most of us more educated people off of the movie, and it actually makes the movie more "dated" by being ridiculous in the assumption that a character in 1880 is astute of facts from 2020.
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