TFA theories exposed!!

Apples and oranges comparison.
I was on IMDb when TPM was released and I defended it for years with hundreds of posts.
- Young, 9 year old Anakin on IMDb from 1999 to 2003 was never criticized for being the best human pod racer in the galaxy.
- At that time it was just accepted that Anakin could do amazing things.

Don't confuse the criticism of Lloyd's poor acting with the broad acceptance that a male character could do incredible things (especially when TPM was released).

Strawman argument.
No one I know of is saying that Rey was as good a pilot as Luke.
- The comparison is usually between Rey and 9 year old Anakin.
- Fact; Rey is a pilot.
Anakin is not a pilot.
- Untrained Anakin and Rey (a pilot) show about equal piloting skills in evading enemies.
- Untrained Anakin fires weapons from a fighter and destroyed the droid control ship.
Rey never fires a weapon from a ship.

5 years old starts the beginning of the sixth year. That year is 365/6 days long.
A person can be 5 years old for 364 days and if they were full time in boarding school (including summer school), they could get instruction for almost that long a time ~300 days.
- Luke got a few minutes of Force instruction in ANH and then uses the Force.
- Rey could have gotten instruction of a time period up to about three hundred days before going to Jakku.

Instruction within ~three hundred days is much longer than a few minutes.

It contradicts nothing.
Force abilities can improve in a struggle with an opponent.
That is established in the fight between Luke and Vader in ESB.
At the beginning of the fight Luke is terrible. As Vader says; "All too easy."
But as the fight goes on Luke gets much better.

Another strawman argument which I've seen no one promote.

The reason for Kylo's defeat is a combination of many things.
As for Rey's high level in using a staff, that is in the film.

A misunderstanding of a label of behavior.
No one who is lucid/competent is 100% unfocused or 100% focused.
Behavior varies.

For a high level Force user, Kylo has several episodes where he is very unfocused.
The existence of his tantrums support that.

Imo this argument does not make sense and is wishful thinking.
- A wounded person can walk but they are still wounded. A wound where blood is falling on the ground is extremely serious.
- In the situation, serious wound and where a planet is exploding, extending the fight with Finn is a very bad idea.
It is either;
1. Kylo was injured and could not quickly defeat a mediocre former Stormtrooper.
2. Kylo is delusional and just wants to play while a planet explodes around him and he bleeds out.
#2 does not make sense.
Therefore the logical conclusion is that Kylo actions are because he was injured.

* An example of how crippling such an injury can be to a Force user is shown with Obi-Wan's fight against Dooku in AOTC where eventually Obi-Wan could no longer effectively use his Force power.

That is due to a combination of Rey's relatively poor skills and Kylo even in a very diminished state being better.
But Kylo was making a terrible mistake when he tried to mind control Rey again.
He was bleeding out and losing power.
And there came a moment when Rey had the ability to beat him.

This theory does not make sense as I've discussed because it argues that Kylo extending the fight with Finn was a good idea.
It wasn't. Not with the planet exploding around them and with Kylo bleeding out.
The evidence suggests that once the fight with Finn begins, Kylo has lost most of his Force power.

1. Wrong. Kylo knocks Rey out at Maz Kanata's place.
2. Rey resisting Kylo's mind probe is no different that Leia resisting Vader's mind probe in ANH. A minor setback.
But while Vader is calm in such a situation, Kylo falls apart mentally and runs to Snoke which is one of many examples of Kylo's mental problems.
3. Sometimes the Star Wars franchise adds something new.
For instance 9 year old Anakin with no pilot training destroying the droid control ship.

* What is needed is; can what happens be explained with what has been established in the franchise?
The franchise shows how a trained Force user can lose their power (in ANH) which could lead to a defeat (with TFA).

Imo at least, BB ;-)

No need.
Several of your arguments were very good (imo).
Your breakdown of the Kylo in the woods fight was the best I've seen by a harsh critic of TFA.
Because of what you wrote, I've had to adjust my argument about that scene. Bravo.

* I'm fine with a debate.
I just suggest this.
That you don't spew personal insults at me.

Unlike IMDb, this site will not tolerate abusive language.
On IMDb I was the target of abuse for years and frankly I just don't want to go through that again.

* So if you want, we can try again with our discusssion.

Imo at least, BB ;-)


PS. For a possible start to getting our discussion going again. 

The IMDb forum comments are available on the web.

I'll clarify my view of this.
1. The claim on IMDb or here has to be as you wrote;

"Rey's piloting credentials are just as good as Luke Skywalker's."

- A general comparison of just piloting kills will not work with your topic.
For instance, I've compared Rey's piloting skills to Luke's many times to point out that she had never fired a weapon from a ship.
So she could never be as good a fighter pilot as Luke who shot down ships and who blew up the Death Star.
2. I made a mistake with my response to you when I wrote;

"No one I know of is saying that Rey was as good a pilot as Luke."

There were harsh critics on IMDb who would throw around wild claims like "Rey is better than Luke!".
- Imo that needs to be ignored with your topic. IMDb harsh critics will say many things to stir up arguments.
- What I should have written was;

'No supporter of TFA I know of is saying that Rey was as good a pilot as Luke.'

After all, the TFA theories which are being exposed would be made by TFA supporters not harsh IMDb critics.

This might have come from a person who was bashing TFA.
It's not a thoughtful film theory imo.
- What does amateur mean?
It looked like Kylo had a job with the First Order, meaning he was a professional and not an amateur/working for free.
- Kylo also had the freeze trick. They was very impressive.
- Was he overal as good as Vader, Dooku, Palpatine or Maul? Imo no.
Snoke said that Kylo needed more training. Kylo was still a learner.
Things should be more specific than that he was an amateur imo.

It's our privilege to do what we wish within the rules.

If there's an IMDb quote by a supporter saying that Rey is as good a pilot as Luke, including as a fighter pilot, then I'll accept that as evidence that a supporter of TFA had a poorly thought out film theory.
- But something to consider. If we have to hunt down for evidence on IMDb for some obscure supporter film theory, then all that says is that someone on IMDb said something wrong. Does it really warrant a thread on this site to knock down this obscure supporter film theory from IMDb?
- There have been lots of comments on this site about TFA.
- I just wonder if it wouldn't be better to quote someone on this site?

But anyway, that's just my view.
And I'm most willing to agree to disagree.

;-)