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Post by notoriousnobbi on Jun 27, 2021 22:59:53 GMT
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Jul 9, 2021 4:02:43 GMT
79 years ago, Germany and her allies invaded the USSR. The opening page of one of the darkest chapters in human history.
Could it have worked? There was no real endgame. The A-A Line (Arkhangelsk to Astrakhan) or the Urals is usually the objective for the Nazis. But would hte Soviets have fought on from Siberia? Could they have carried on the war? Even with support from the US. Supplies would have come through Vladivostok, provided the Japanese allowed it. Certainly, it wouldn't have lasted. As Alexander, the Mongols, Napoleon et al found out, it was easier to take lands than keep them.
stalin's war by sean mcmeekin, just out—has some good stuff on this. Also about how much of a comical schmuck FDR was dealing with Stalin.
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Jul 9, 2021 6:13:30 GMT
Everything turned out well in the end.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 9, 2021 12:04:24 GMT
79 years ago, Germany and her allies invaded the USSR. The opening page of one of the darkest chapters in human history.
Could it have worked? There was no real endgame. The A-A Line (Arkhangelsk to Astrakhan) or the Urals is usually the objective for the Nazis. But would hte Soviets have fought on from Siberia? Could they have carried on the war? Even with support from the US. Supplies would have come through Vladivostok, provided the Japanese allowed it. Certainly, it wouldn't have lasted. As Alexander, the Mongols, Napoleon et al found out, it was easier to take lands than keep them.
stalin's war by sean mcmeekin, just out—has some good stuff on this. Also about how much of a comical schmuck FDR was dealing with Stalin. Have the e-book, haven't got to it yet.
FDR needed the Soviets in one the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands. Operation Downfall would have been a bloodbath of epic proportions. Some projections of 1,000,000 US casualties, 4-5,000,000 Japanese deaths. The IJA had reinforced the garrisons on Kyushu and Honshu with elite troops from the Kwantung Army in China. Kwangtung Army troops had been sent to Saipan and Okinawa and that didn't go well. And the US Intelligence services had radically underestimated the number of aircraft the Japanese had on the Home Islands, they thought ~2000 but there was well over 6000. Each one a Kamikaze aimed at the US fleet. I'd forgive Roosevelt for trading Poland for lessening the horror of Operation Downfall. Of course, he had no way of foreseeing Fat Man and Little Boy. Read Richard B. Frank's Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Jul 10, 2021 12:55:14 GMT
stalin's war by sean mcmeekin, just out—has some good stuff on this. Also about how much of a comical schmuck FDR was dealing with Stalin. Have the e-book, haven't got to it yet.
FDR needed the Soviets in one the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands. Operation Downfall would have been a bloodbath of epic proportions. Some projections of 1,000,000 US casualties, 4-5,000,000 Japanese deaths. The IJA had reinforced the garrisons on Kyushu and Honshu with elite troops from the Kwantung Army in China. Kwangtung Army troops had been sent to Saipan and Okinawa and that didn't go well. And the US Intelligence services had radically underestimated the number of aircraft the Japanese had on the Home Islands, they thought ~2000 but there was well over 6000. Each one a Kamikaze aimed at the US fleet. I'd forgive Roosevelt for trading Poland for lessening the horror of Operation Downfall. Of course, he had no way of foreseeing Fat Man and Little Boy. Read Richard B. Frank's Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire.
stalin wanted the japs & usa to fight. fdr was a complete fool.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 10, 2021 15:42:55 GMT
Have the e-book, haven't got to it yet.
FDR needed the Soviets in one the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands. Operation Downfall would have been a bloodbath of epic proportions. Some projections of 1,000,000 US casualties, 4-5,000,000 Japanese deaths. The IJA had reinforced the garrisons on Kyushu and Honshu with elite troops from the Kwantung Army in China. Kwangtung Army troops had been sent to Saipan and Okinawa and that didn't go well. And the US Intelligence services had radically underestimated the number of aircraft the Japanese had on the Home Islands, they thought ~2000 but there was well over 6000. Each one a Kamikaze aimed at the US fleet. I'd forgive Roosevelt for trading Poland for lessening the horror of Operation Downfall. Of course, he had no way of foreseeing Fat Man and Little Boy. Read Richard B. Frank's Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire.
stalin wanted the japs & usa to fight. fdr was a complete fool. And they did. But not because of Stalin. Since the military took over in the 20's, Japan was the most anti-Communist state on Earth and that included Nazi Germany. I doubt they listened to Stalin. Their xenophobia, greed, utter disdain for anyone not Japanese and the feeling of inferiority they got a Versailles and the Washington Naval Treaties pushed Japan into the Pacific War, NOT Stalin. Read John Toland's The Rising Sun
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Jul 10, 2021 21:31:29 GMT
stalin wanted the japs & usa to fight. fdr was a complete fool. And they did. But not because of Stalin. Since the military took over in the 20's, Japan was the most anti-Communist state on Earth and that included Nazi Germany. I doubt they listened to Stalin. Their xenophobia, greed, utter disdain for anyone not Japanese and the feeling of inferiority they got a Versailles and the Washington Naval Treaties pushed Japan into the Pacific War, NOT Stalin. Read John Toland's The Rising Sun
i'll check out that book---thanks!
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