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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 23, 2019 23:48:02 GMT
It's a bad question, actually. The question of whether free will exists is not like the question of whether dark matter exists. It isn't something you can be right or wrong about. Rather, it is just a stance you take over a concept. In that way it is like the Ātman, there is no circuitous route to describe it or convey it, it must be perceived directly. I think you discount the possibility of directly perceiving free will. Perhaps your mother was frightened by fundamentalists when carrying you.
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Jul 8, 2019 13:00:16 GMT
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 16, 2019 18:52:30 GMT
I think you discount the possibility of directly perceiving free will. I think you discount the possibility that free will is not a thing which can be perceived but rather an abstract concept that has little utility outside of largely pointless debates in philosophy.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 17, 2019 11:57:04 GMT
I think you discount the possibility of directly perceiving free will. I think you discount the possibility that free will is not a thing which can be perceived but rather an abstract concept that has little utility outside of largely pointless debates in philosophy. I'm certain I understand very well that people might be mistaken about what they "perceive." I am only suggesting the possibility that some of them are not mistaken. The "utility" of the perception compares with any concept in philosophy, which of course many people consider more useful than bare science.
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 17, 2019 12:39:04 GMT
I'm certain I understand very well that people might be mistaken about what they "perceive." I am only suggesting the possibility that some of them are not mistaken. No one can perceive free will in the same sense that they can perceive a color or pain. That just isn't what free will is, period. If I'm wrong about this, you will be able to provide clear, unambiguous cases of free will being perceived that are as unassailable as cases of someone seeing an apple or feeling a pin prick. You can't.
The only sense in which free will can be perceived at all is if you classify free will as being in the same class of characteristics as "wit" or "leadership". I'd recommend that approach, but that is just one of many positions philosophers have adopted about what free will is.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 17, 2019 21:39:06 GMT
I'm certain I understand very well that people might be mistaken about what they "perceive." I am only suggesting the possibility that some of them are not mistaken. No one can perceive free will in the same sense that they can perceive a color or pain. That just isn't what free will is, period. If I'm wrong about this, you will be able to provide clear, unambiguous cases of free will being perceived that are as unassailable as cases of someone seeing an apple or feeling a pin prick. You can't.
The only sense in which free will can be perceived at all is if you classify free will as being in the same class of characteristics as "wit" or "leadership". I'd recommend that approach, but that is just one of many positions philosophers have adopted about what free will is.
The Hindus stated it rather succinctly, there is no indirect route to perceive the Ātman, you either perceive it or you do not. There are however ways that you can be given hints. Those might be of service if you were near realization anyway. It can be similar with free will. There are ways to help you see it. There is however no guarantee of success, especially if you are obstinate in your rejection of it. There is no way I can "force" you to see it as one can force you to see that white light splits into colors . I am not the sort who depends on force anyway though.
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Post by faustus5 on Jul 18, 2019 10:36:02 GMT
The Hindus stated it rather succinctly, there is no indirect route to perceive the Ātman, you either perceive it or you do not. There are however ways that you can be given hints. Those might be of service if you were near realization anyway. It can be similar with free will. There are ways to help you see it. There is however no guarantee of success, especially if you are obstinate in your rejection of it. There is no way I can "force" you to see it as one can force you to see that white light splits into colors . I am not the sort who depends on force anyway though. In other words, you want to turn free will into another supernatural, mystical bit of unverifiable, meaningless nonsense, just like your concept of God. Hope that works for you. I prefer a more sober approach.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:27:44 GMT
To an extent. The way we express our individuality is more dictated by culture than anyone likes to think. Even the way we process information comes down to the society in which we were raised and the language we use to communicate and to interpret visual/aural stimulus. We can make our own choices, but we can never escape the influence that existing in a world crafted by other humans has on us.
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Post by telegonus on Jul 27, 2019 18:29:27 GMT
I find the question too broad for my liking and I can't answer it even to my own satisfaction much less anyone else's. There's always the Unknown and "unknowable" factors, as presented, rather simplistically, I admit, in many episodes of The Twilight Zine TV series. I think of the man with the unending nightmare of facing the executioner every time he (presumably) wakes up.
In real life there are still choices that we make as much because we're genetically predisposed to certain behaviors and thought patterns (not specifically but generally), yet there are always variations, as determined by upbringing, health (mental and physical) and the century one is born in.
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Post by Ass_E9 on Aug 6, 2019 21:43:01 GMT
Yes, you do not need a lawyer to write a basic one for you.
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Post by Cooper, the Golden Retriever on Sept 7, 2019 18:11:38 GMT
YES.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 12, 2019 22:34:19 GMT
Who can say?
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Post by siberianhusky on Sept 30, 2019 6:34:37 GMT
Free will no exist. Under capitalism, workers do will of working class. In worker's state, everyone do will of workers and great leader like Lenin or Stalin.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 1:17:04 GMT
yes but in terms of needing nutrients and the absolute minimum good health to live, no. If that makes sense
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Post by mslo79 on Oct 5, 2019 6:16:19 GMT
Anyone who's Christian (especially Catholic) knows the answer is... yes. because if God forced us to love him and do what he says we would not have free will and it would not be a true act of love towards Him on our part.
"If you love Me[Jesus Christ], you will keep My commandments." - John 14:15
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Post by onethreetwo on Oct 5, 2019 6:37:00 GMT
Anyone who's Christian (especially Catholic) knows the answer is... yes. because if God forced us to love him and do what he says we would not have free will and it would not be a true act of love towards Him on our part. "If you love Me[Jesus Christ], you will keep My commandments." - John 14:15 I don't think free will can exist. Can I choose to do the morally right thing every time? No, I can't. So I don't have that choice. In a sense, we're all cursed. We can choose right and wrong, but we can't choose to be perfect. We are imperfect in nature. Just like we can't choose to be completely evil 100% of the time. So if I can't choose the morally right behavior every single time, does that means I only have free will some of the time? Do we have limited free will? Why can't I choose the morally right behavior every time?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 12:10:35 GMT
Anyone who's Christian (especially Catholic) knows the answer is... yes. because if God forced us to love him and do what he says we would not have free will and it would not be a true act of love towards Him on our part. "If you love Me[Jesus Christ], you will keep My commandments." - John 14:15 I don't think free will can exist. Can I choose to do the morally right thing every time? No, I can't. So I don't have that choice. In a sense, we're all cursed. We can choose right and wrong, but we can't choose to be perfect. We are imperfect in nature. Just like we can't choose to be completely evil 100% of the time. So if I can't choose the morally right behavior every single time, does that means I only have free will some of the time? Do we have limited free will? Why can't I choose the morally right behavior every time? The very choice itself is free will. What youre talking about is strength of character or perhaps conscience
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