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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 23:58:36 GMT
I was gonna post this in the Trek section but it might be more fun here.
The question is, once you're copied and your matter is dissembled then rebuilt in a new location, is that new you... really you?
Would you have any existential concerns about using such a device?
At first, you might think no based on the immediacy of the act but what if (like the prestige) I showed you your copy first. You knew that you were about to die (albeit painlessly) and be replaced by the copy (which had all your memories up to that point). Would that change your view on the transporter?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jun 20, 2017 0:00:40 GMT
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Post by general313 on Jun 20, 2017 0:32:19 GMT
I was gonna post this in the Trek section but it might be more fun here. The question is, once you're copied and your matter is dissembled then rebuilt in a new location, is that new you... really you? Would you have any existential concerns about using such a device? At first, you might think no based on the immediacy of the act but what if (like the prestige) I showed you your copy first. You knew that you were about to die (albeit painlessly) and be replaced by the copy (which had all your memories up to that point). Would that change your view on the transporter? There's no way to know for sure, any more than it is possible to know if the person next to you is a p-zombie. I suppose a materialist might be more comfortable with the idea than someone who believes in souls (the latter group has to consider possibilities of body/soul separation and reunification). I'd probably take the risk if it involved going to some really cool place that I couldn't get to any other way, like a habitable planet in another solar system, knowing that after I took the trip I (or my copy) would not have gained any knowledge about the risks in question. |
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camimac
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Post by camimac on Jun 20, 2017 1:35:44 GMT
It is a very interesting concept, especially the way you explain it. You state that you are a copy. You also state that your matter is disassembled and rebuilt in a new location. Usually when I think about a copy, I think about making a copy on a Xerox machine. When you are done you still have the original and a copy. The same thing is true when you talk of a clone. You have an original, and a copy too.
If your matter is disassembled and rebuilt in a new location that does not really sound like a copy. And, if that's how the transporter worked, then the only problem that I would have getting on a transporter would come from the fear of having some tragic transporter accident. One of those accidents where my matter isn't rebuilt and I end up dead. If memory serves there was a transporter accident like that in Star Trek the motion picture.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 20, 2017 3:13:45 GMT
hell yeah! anything beats the mta at any time of the day or night. I am now leaving well before 6am and the 7 train is standing room >barely< -- before 6am! what the hell are all these people doing going to work now??? [srsly it is not like this usually].
and then you have the twits who do routines,
spew religious propaganda,
public drunks trying to lure children from their parents [and almost succeeding -- srsly, happened last week],
unaccompanied children who do whatever the hell they want on the bus/subway -- running amok, playfighting, running on seats, spitting tictacs at other [paying] riders. [today]
rude people who squeeze their way into a too-small seat, and then proceed to elbow you in the eye repeatedly while playing 'hair salon' [not on their phones]
asshats who insist on entering the train/bus first and then NOT MOVING IN/MOING AWAY FROM THE DOOR!
shitbags who sit like they are beached whales -- when you don't have to.
twats who let their kids doing whatever the hell they want.
morons who don't know to POINT. THE. UMBRELLA. DOWN. and. close. the. damn. thing.
special relationship retards who proceed to push their --wheeled whatever [not including wheelchairs] into sardined trains/busses.
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Post by faustus5 on Jun 20, 2017 10:34:04 GMT
Over every seven years or so, every single atom and molecule in my body has been replaced. The transporter just does it in a matter of seconds, and really that's the only difference. It's the structured information that makes me what I am, not particular atoms and molecules.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jun 20, 2017 16:12:16 GMT
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Post by faustus5 on Jun 20, 2017 16:40:25 GMT
I supposed next you're going to tell me that my mom was wrong when she told me the chewing gum I was swallowing was going to be in my stomach my entire life.  However, I think my point largely remains, because I was talking about molecules and atoms, not cells. Living cells are thermodynamic engines constantly processing materials. Even a cell that lives my entire life is inputting and outputting atoms and molecules the entire time. |
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 17:14:28 GMT
Yes. I don't really care for continuous personal identity, it doesn't matter to me whether it is true or not.. Although I do think if you are defining continuous personal identity as some thread between "me" at my conception from me to my death bed then yes it exists due to multiple reasons. I buy into the memory theory, a form of the body theory and what I have called role theory which as far as I know was created by me.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jun 20, 2017 17:33:42 GMT
I supposed next you're going to tell me that my mom was wrong when she told me the chewing gum I was swallowing was going to be in my stomach my entire life. However, I think my point largely remains, because I was talking about molecules and atoms, not cells. Living cells are thermodynamic engines constantly processing materials. Even a cell that lives my entire life is inputting and outputting atoms and molecules the entire time. Ah fair enough then |
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Post by general313 on Jun 20, 2017 18:11:05 GMT
I supposed next you're going to tell me that my mom was wrong when she told me the chewing gum I was swallowing was going to be in my stomach my entire life. However, I think my point largely remains, because I was talking about molecules and atoms, not cells. Living cells are thermodynamic engines constantly processing materials. Even a cell that lives my entire life is inputting and outputting atoms and molecules the entire time. I believe that teeth are the only part of the body that don't exchange molecules. Everything else, including bone does. So from that point of view the transporter trip should be fine, since no one worries about loss of identity when their teeth are pulled out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:16:31 GMT
At first, you might think no based on the immediacy of the act but what if (like the prestige) I showed you your copy first. You knew that you were about to die (albeit painlessly) and be replaced by the copy (which had all your memories up to that point). Would that change your view on the transporter? So the copy would not have the memory of the experience: "oh God I am about to be replaced by a copy." If so then it wouldn't be a direct copy of the living conscious thing. It's like I am painting on photoshop. I save the file, then work on it for another hour or so but the laptop crashes so I have to use the old copy but all the unsaved work is gone. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:39:05 GMT
At first, you might think no based on the immediacy of the act but what if (like the prestige) I showed you your copy first. You knew that you were about to die (albeit painlessly) and be replaced by the copy (which had all your memories up to that point). Would that change your view on the transporter? So the copy would not have the memory of the experience: "oh God I am about to be replaced by a copy." If so then it wouldn't be a direct copy of the living conscious thing. In the original example, neither do you. You're oblivious to what's about to happen. I used the second example (where you do know) to show that being aware of it is really the only difference between them yet one is terrifying while the other is not. I guess you could say it's the difference between being shot in the face and shot in the back of the head. |
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Post by yezziqa on Jun 20, 2017 19:04:16 GMT
Hell no! Have you seen just how many accidents occur when they are using that thing? I'm amazed that it has been approved at all.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:14:38 GMT
So the copy would not have the memory of the experience: "oh God I am about to be replaced by a copy." If so then it wouldn't be a direct copy of the living conscious thing. In the original example, neither do you. You're oblivious to what's about to happen. I used the second example (where you do know) to show that being aware of it is really the only difference between them yet one is terrifying while the other is not. I guess you could say it's the difference between being shot in the face and shot in the back of the head. Right, but if you don't recall the second experience (after the fact) there is still unsaved work no matter what you were thinking about at that exact time. In the first example one could be thinking about baking a cake or maybe in that instant they figured out something important. That would be lost. The ideal setup for the computer one is that the file is saved as it turns off. (In the transporter setup this is where you are disassembled by the machine and it collects all of the information.) The computer file is then copied and pasted as a new file and the former file is then deleted without being reactivated. So for the second example, if you still are alive and recall the terrifying experience of about to be shot in the face then you might believe it was a success and be more likely to do it again because you survived the experience of being shot in the face. Sort of like going on a roller coaster, since it's less scary the second time. |
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Jul 2, 2017 20:06:46 GMT
The only way I'd go back to NYC
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Post by Ass_E9 on Jul 3, 2017 4:17:48 GMT
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geezer
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Post by geezer on Jul 6, 2017 4:14:25 GMT
Be afraid...be very afraid!!
Seriously, this is a very interesting topic.
One can argue that when you are "dematerialized" and your molecules and atoms are broke down for transport, you are killed....gone. Rematerialized, you are merely a copy.
Of course, this could only be know by experiments if such a technology was possible.
If the brain is reconstructed exactly like the original, would it still contain the memories, feelings, experiences, ie personality?
If you believe in a soul, would that stay with you?
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Post by general313 on Jul 6, 2017 15:17:30 GMT
Be afraid...be very afraid!! Seriously, this is a very interesting topic. One can argue that when you are "dematerialized" and your molecules and atoms are broke down for transport, you are killed....gone. Rematerialized, you are merely a copy. Of course, this could only be know by experiments if such a technology was possible. If the brain is reconstructed exactly like the original, would it still contain the memories, feelings, experiences, ie personality? If you believe in a soul, would that stay with you? Even running the "experiments" wouldn't answer anything. How do you know that you are you and not a copy of you? What does that even mean? How do you know that when you wake up every day you aren't a copy of yesterday's you (while in deep sleep)? |
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jul 6, 2017 15:26:10 GMT
Yes, a transporter would be very handy. No more daily commute to work you beam back and forth, and it would also cut out the tedious amount of time spent at airports when you go on holiday, just beam straight to the resort. And if you're traveling on a tight budget you wouldn't even need a hotel, just beam back home at the end of the day. Of course your electricity bill might go up.
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