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Post by faustus5 on Aug 6, 2017 13:57:04 GMT
This is strictly based on science. No, it is strictly based on your ignorance.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 6, 2017 14:02:32 GMT
This is strictly based on science. No, it is strictly based on your ignorance. Where is your consciousness located?
It's located in your physical brain.
If you make a copy of your physical brain, it's just a copy.
This is science.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 7, 2017 17:07:33 GMT
Where is your consciousness located?
It's located in your physical brain.
If you make a copy of your physical brain, it's just a copy.
This is science. Science has absolutely nothing to say about personal identity and the validity of a so-called "copy". That's a purely philosophical issue. But your head is so far up your dumb ass you can't tell the difference.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 7, 2017 22:41:11 GMT
Where is your consciousness located?
It's located in your physical brain.
If you make a copy of your physical brain, it's just a copy.
This is science. Science has absolutely nothing to say about personal identity and the validity of a so-called "copy". That's a purely philosophical issue. But your head is so far up your dumb ass you can't tell the difference. There's no reason to be insulting unless you have nothing else to stand on. Noted. Ask yourself where your thoughts are taking place. In your brain. If you get a brain injury, then your thought processes can be impeded. You can be rendered unconscious. If the injury is serious enough, you may have to relearn how to speak. If the injury is extremely serious, it can cause brain death. At this point, families usually decide to pull the plug because what was "you" has already died, although your body is alive in a vegetative state. If you'd already made a copy of your brain through some kind of technology that doesn't exist yet, your family could have a copy of your personality, consciousness, etc, while burying your old brain. The new brain would remember everything you knew up to the point of the copy being made, but it would be a copy. Your original brain and stream of consciousness would be gone (along with all the memories that had occurred after the copy had been made). ----------- Think of this another way (and the following is a true story that was made into a TV movie at some point)... A High School star with many accomplishments and sports trophies (as I recall) had a freak head injury during a party outing with friends one night. When he woke up in the morning, his entire memory was gone (including knowledge of how to speak, the English language, and even how to walk). He was like a newborn baby. His brain wasn't damaged in a way that would make him unable to do these things. He simply had to relearn them. All of them. So he was a non-potty trained teenager who needed to be taught everything from scratch with the help of his family. He did learn. He became a new person who could function well. He was smart and he was still their son, although he never regained any of the memories of his original life. After a time, it became clear that he couldn't compete with his original "self" who had spent all those years making accomplishments and winning trophies. So he asked his family to have a funeral for the person who had been lost. He was like a new child for them in their former child's body, and he wanted to be recognized as himself without feeling the need to compete with the person he used to be. So they had a funeral for the lost child that he had been - and he was accepted as a new person. The concept of "self" isn't a religious idea or some mythical idea for human beings.If you have nothing else to say about any of this except more insults, then don't bother.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 7, 2017 22:45:40 GMT
faustus5 I've just read much of your history. You had almost nothing of value to say. You merely attempted to insult people in every conversation I saw, instead.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 8, 2017 17:04:45 GMT
faustus5 I've just read much of your history. You had almost nothing of value to say. You merely attempted to insult people in every conversation I saw, instead. You still haven't posted so much as a single scientific argument to support your ideas, since you obviously don't know what actual science is.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 8, 2017 17:38:44 GMT
faustus5 I've just read much of your history. You had almost nothing of value to say. You merely attempted to insult people in every conversation I saw, instead. You still haven't posted so much as a single scientific argument to support your ideas, since you obviously don't know what actual science is. You don't know how to argue at all except to say that whoever disagrees with you hates science or hates movies or hates whatever is being discussed. I have a Master of Science in Computer Science. You know nothing about anything except how to insult people for daring to disagree with you.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 9, 2017 10:46:19 GMT
I have a Master of Science in Computer Science. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject in this thread, which you are woefully unable to grasp with any intelligence.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 9, 2017 11:25:04 GMT
Yes.
I am not afraid.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 12:35:36 GMT
I have a Master of Science in Computer Science. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject in this thread, which you are woefully unable to grasp with any intelligence. This is how you respond to people who disagree with you on absolutely any subject. You have no depth at all. At least I've gone into the (scientific) way the brain works. You've done nothing.
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Post by general313 on Aug 9, 2017 15:17:24 GMT
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject in this thread, which you are woefully unable to grasp with any intelligence. This is how you respond to people who disagree with you on absolutely any subject. You have no depth at all. At least I've gone into the (scientific) way the brain works. You've done nothing. Faustus is right about this. Science has nothing to say on the matter because we have no evidence and no theory that could be tested to answer the question. I think the closest we can come (which is not all that close in my opinion) is to how much importance we attach to a particular computer. If your personal computer got irreparably damaged, and you had a full backup of the hard drive just before the accident, and you faithfully reinstalled your software on an identical model, you'd very quickly stop thinking about the fact that you're using a replacement computer.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 15:33:04 GMT
This is how you respond to people who disagree with you on absolutely any subject. You have no depth at all. At least I've gone into the (scientific) way the brain works. You've done nothing. Faustus is right about this. Science has nothing to say on the matter because we have no evidence and no theory that could be tested to answer the question. I think the closest we can come (which is not all that close in my opinion) is to how much importance we attach to a particular computer. If your personal computer got irreparably damaged, and you had a full backup of the hard drive just before the accident, and you faithfully reinstalled your software on an identical model, you'd very quickly stop thinking about the fact that you're using a replacement computer. Human beings are not computers.
You'll have to trust me on this. If someone could make an instant clone of you (as you are right now with all your thoughts) - would it be you? If they killed you after making the clone, would your clone be you (the person who exists right now)? Maybe it wouldn't matter to anyone else that your clone is a copy, but it would matter to you if someone said, "Ok, now you are going to die because we want the clone to take over your life."I'm talking about reality here - not religion or superstition. If someone is killed so that a copy can take over, the killed person (the original person who had lived his/her entire life up until that moment) is dead. The copy is not the original. This shouldn't be so difficult to understand - honestly.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 15:37:05 GMT
Judging from what some people are saying here, I take it that "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" movies shouldn't have been a problem for the humans in the movies since the body snatchers did actually replace people along with their earlier memories.
The whole plots should be reconsidered, in this case.
The Body Snatchers were just doing what they knew how to do and no one should have fought them over it - right?
So were the Body Snatchers (the ones who actually created new bodies, not the most recent version that changed people with a virus) the good guys who should have been left alone?
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Post by general313 on Aug 9, 2017 15:39:50 GMT
Faustus is right about this. Science has nothing to say on the matter because we have no evidence and no theory that could be tested to answer the question. I think the closest we can come (which is not all that close in my opinion) is to how much importance we attach to a particular computer. If your personal computer got irreparably damaged, and you had a full backup of the hard drive just before the accident, and you faithfully reinstalled your software on an identical model, you'd very quickly stop thinking about the fact that you're using a replacement computer. Human beings are not computers.
You'll have to trust me on this. ^ Philosophy I'm not sure. What I'm sure of is that science has no answer to this question at the present time. More philosophical speculation with no scientific backing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 16:49:16 GMT
No, it is strictly based on your ignorance. Where is your consciousness located?
It's located in your physical brain.
If you make a copy of your physical brain, it's just a copy.
This is science.But the transporter doesn't (usually) make a copy of you. It disassembles you and then reassembles you elsewhere. If I take your car apart and post the pieces to a mechanic in China one by one, then the mechanic reassembles them there, it's not a copy of your car. It's the same original car. That's what a transporter typically does to your body.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 9, 2017 16:54:19 GMT
Human beings are not computers.
You'll have to trust me on this. Considering that mainstream scientific models of how the minds works are all computational to some degree or other, you have earned nothing but distrust on this subject. Yes, it is foolish to take the "brain-as-computer" approach too literally, but it has considerable merit so long as you are cautious about what you mean.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 18:33:18 GMT
Where is your consciousness located?
It's located in your physical brain.
If you make a copy of your physical brain, it's just a copy.
This is science. But the transporter doesn't (usually) make a copy of you. It disassembles you and then reassembles you elsewhere... Say no more - I've already said that if the transporter actually transports my own molecules, then it's not a problem for me!!
If I'm the one going - all of me and not a copy of me - then I am the one who will arrive at the other transporter station. I don't mind the idea of being disassembled and reassembled elsewhere. Not in the slightest. My only concern has been the idea of "recycling" my molecules and using new ones at the destination to build "me" out of new materials. This would be a copy of me. If it's not happening, then NO PROBLEM.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:06:52 GMT
But the transporter doesn't (usually) make a copy of you. It disassembles you and then reassembles you elsewhere... My only concern has been the idea of "recycling" my molecules and using new ones at the destination to build "me" out of new materials. This would be a copy of me. If it's not happening, then NO PROBLEM. Are you aware that virtually all of the molecules within your body get swapped out for different ones on a regular basis? Rather like the Ship of Theseus. Do you think that makes you less "you"?
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Post by SciFive on Aug 9, 2017 19:28:27 GMT
My only concern has been the idea of "recycling" my molecules and using new ones at the destination to build "me" out of new materials. This would be a copy of me. If it's not happening, then NO PROBLEM. Are you aware that virtually all of the molecules within your body get swapped out for different ones on a regular basis? Rather like the Ship of Theseus. Do you think that makes you less "you"? Oh, this isn't a problem. Over the course of years, my molecules get renewed or whatever. It doesn't happen all at once in the blink of an eye, though. My concern is self-awareness (stream of consciousness) that occurs while individual molecules are renewed over a span of years and years. It's the stream of consciousness that I wouldn't want to lose. By the way, the dawning self-awareness in newborn humans is incredible to watch. Their bodies change rapidly over the course of days, weeks, months and years - but their self-awareness is a steady stream that becomes more aware and more communicative as time passes and their little bodies change.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:36:31 GMT
Are you aware that virtually all of the molecules within your body get swapped out for different ones on a regular basis? Rather like the Ship of Theseus. Do you think that makes you less "you"? Oh, this isn't a problem. Over the course of years, my molecules get renewed or whatever. It doesn't happen all at once in the blink of an eye, though. My concern is self-awareness (stream of consciousness) that occurs while individual molecules are renewed over a span of years and years. It's the stream of consciousness that I wouldn't want to lose. Don't you lose that every night when you sleep?
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