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Post by Tunaman09 on Feb 5, 2017 6:31:21 GMT
There is no board for it so I thought here would be a good place for people to discuss it. I'm currently watching it and I am 3 episodes in so far. I am enjoying the parts out in crew of the Canterbury and the UN parts on Earth more than the detective at Ceres station thing but they are starting to tie in together so am looking forward to seeing where it goes. There are 10 episodes on Netflix but IMDB says there are 23 episodes so I assume Season 2 is out soon. Is anybody else watching? What are your thoughts.
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ironjade
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Post by ironjade on Feb 5, 2017 12:52:25 GMT
I like it and it fits right in with Thomas Jane's oddball choices of things in which to appear. Unlike Killjoys etc. it isn't teen oriented and the storyline is complex enough to keep me interested. In terms of visuals, the money is definitely on the screen. My only complaint is that Jonathan Banks' character was killed off so early.
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Post by kevin on Feb 5, 2017 19:00:42 GMT
I've seen the first 5 episodes so far and I really like it. The world-building is great and the story is very intruiging as well. From what I've heard, the second season (at least the first two episodes of it) have been recieved very well, with an average of 8.79/10 on Rotten Tomatoes. I really hope it stays this good, because it's been a long time since we had a great sci-fi show set in space.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 6, 2017 2:44:46 GMT
This is a space travel science fiction TV series highly regarded by most professional critics with good viewer ratings. I should like "The Expanse" a lot. Yet, after 3 episodes there isn't much there for me to latch on to in terms of main characters / main story. And I'm usually pretty good at figuring that out. SPOILERS- The people on a Ceres station are upset because of water / air rationing. The people blame Mars or maybe earth. - There is a missing woman who may be a terrorist who knew people on the Ceres station. A detective investigates. - There is a freighter hauling ice. It was attacked (maybe by a Mars ship). There are survivors in a shuttle. But a Mars navy ship crew tells the shuttle crew that a Mars ship did not attack the freighter. - A woman leader of the UN on earth seems to be manipulating politicians on earth about Mars. Does she want war? Maybe. - And there are terrorists who haven't told their story yet. I'll probably stick it out. It's OK (passable) so far. BB ;-)
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Post by Tunaman09 on Feb 6, 2017 21:21:03 GMT
Just watched episode 4 'CQB'
Much better episode, more scenes set in space and less on Earth and Ceres allowed the episode to flow better
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 7, 2017 9:02:26 GMT
Episode 4 adds some info but the main story / character motivations remain vague; SPOILERS - The people on the Ceres station are not only upset because of water / air rationing. But some people there get stoned and bet on dangerous flying. - The missing woman who may be a terrorist who knew people on the Ceres station; The detective keeps investigating and finds someone with an implant. Another detective is stabbed but is alive. - The freighter hauling ice was not attacked by a Mars ship. The freighter survivors leave in a shuttle from the Mars ship. The Mars navy ship was attacked by unknown ships and the Mars ship self destructs. - The woman leader of the UN on earth watches the stars on the roof of her house. She keeps track of some events. - An OPA terrorist leader on Tycho station (who is a work supervisor) says the OPA wants more jobs. - The Mormons are spreading to other planets. This remains OK (passable) so far. BB ;-)
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 8, 2017 4:20:10 GMT
Episode 4 adds some info but the main story / character motivations remain vague; SPOILERS - The people on the Ceres station are not only upset because of water / air rationing. But some people there get stoned and bet on dangerous flying. - The missing woman who may be a terrorist who knew people on the Ceres station; The detective keeps investigating and finds someone with an implant. Another detective is stabbed but is alive. - The freighter hauling ice was not attacked by a Mars ship. The freighter survivors leave in a shuttle from the Mars ship. The Mars navy ship was attacked by unknown ships and the Mars ship self destructs. - The woman leader of the UN on earth watches the stars on the roof of her house. She keeps track of some events. - An OPA terrorist leader on Tycho station (who is a work supervisor) says the OPA wants more jobs. - The Mormons are spreading to other planets. This remains OK (passable) so far. BB ;-) The Belters were depending on that ice shipment from the Canterbury. When the Cant was destroyed, and with it the ice payload, Ceres was put into an emergency water ration, which pissed everyone off. That's why we get the scene of Detective Miller showering and getting his water cut off by the automated system -- then later, when he's searching Julie Mao's apartment, he realizes she's got almost 100% of her water allotment because she shipped out aboard the Scopuli and hasn't been home to use her water. The people of Ceres were already angry with the water rations and the missing shipments, but then James Holden sends that broadcast blaming Mars for destroying the Canterbury, and that sends everyone into a frenzy -- that's what causes the riots, which eventually lead to Havelock getting attacked and impaled by angry Belters. Remember, the Belters/Ceres residents are already people who feel disenfranchised by Earth and Mars -- they feel like they're squeezed between two tense super powers, neither of whom care that the Belt is in poverty. It is tricky figuring out just how Julie Mao and the Scopuli figure into all this. I agree, that could have been handled better than it was. The only consolation is that it is explained in detail through flashbacks, so we don't have to rely on exposition to put the pieces together. Then when the MCRN Donnager finds the Knight (the Canterbury's shuttle), the Mars officers are understandably angry that Holden blamed them for destroying the Canterbury. At this point both Earth and Mars are realizing that someone is trying to push them both into war, but they don't know who's behind it and they don't know why. That's why the MCRN officer, Lopez, interrogates each surviving member of the Cant -- in a nice little detail, they show Lopez putting what looks like a pill on his tongue. That's called an "eidetic" in some science fiction stories, and basically it's a futuristic form of "loading" all the details about someone's life and past history into memory. Instead of reading through hundreds of files on each prisoner, the interrogator can simply consume an eidetic and have all known information about the prisoners committed to his memory instantly, giving him a massive advantage in pulling information from them. When Captain Yao of the Donnager tells Lopez and MCRN marines to get Holden and company off the ship, she gives Lopez a storage drive containing all the close-range combat information from the attacking stealth ships, the specifics of their drive signatures, and every other bit of information gleaned about the ships during the battle. This is important because that information might help identify who built the ships, and who is behind the attacks. It would be like if U.S. pilots encountered a never-before-seen air superiority jet that equaled or surpassed the F-22, despite the fact that no other nation is known to have that capability. There would be a pretty short list of nations that have the resources to engineer something like that, and not knowing about it ahead of time is an extraordinary and ultimately fatal intelligence failure. Mostly, I agree with you...there's way too much going on in the beginning and the show doesn't do enough to show us why all these things are relevant. However, it does get better. I watched the first two episodes of S2 last week and I'm almost done re-watching S1. I feel like The Expanse has incredible potential, but it hasn't reached that potential yet. Season 2 is supposed to be a lot better, so I'm hoping that's true...it's very rare to get a good space show these days.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 8, 2017 5:38:19 GMT
Mostly, I agree with you...there's way too much going on in the beginning and the show doesn't do enough to show us why all these things are relevant. However, it does get better. I watched the first two episodes of S2 last week and I'm almost done re-watching S1. I feel like The Expanse has incredible potential, but it hasn't reached that potential yet. Season 2 is supposed to be a lot better, so I'm hoping that's true...it's very rare to get a good space show these days. I appreciate all the information and encouragement to continue. I will eventually push on with "The Expanse" but I might watch a few episodes from season 2 of "Dark Matter" just for a respite. I need a break with a simpler space travel science fiction show. If "The Expanse" were the only space travel SF series, then I'd slog through it no matter what. But it isn't. BB ;-)
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 8, 2017 5:41:23 GMT
Episode 5 was in some ways a struggle; it adds vague info to a main story / characters which was already vague. There are as many questions as answers from this episode and this time I needed to watch bits again to keep track. SPOILERS - The Ceres station has an OPA operative named Anderson Dawes. Dawes talks to the detective, Joe, about getting the man who stabbed Joe's partner, Dmitri. Dawes has the man who committed the assault locked up. - Dawes wants Ceres to be independent (due to low gravity and poor air). - Joe, talks to someone about the missing woman, Julie, who may be a terrorist. Her dad is rich. Julie was helping others before she disappeared. The detective keeps investigating figuring that the man with the implant was selling information and Julie wanted to see this "data broker". - Joe has a theory that Julie is connected to the freighter hauling ice (the Canterbury) that was destroyed as well as the Mars ship, (Donnager), which was also destroyed. But that theory is not explored. Joe is kidnapped at the end of the episode. - The freighter (Canterbury) survivors traveling in a shuttle from the Mars ship (Donnager) need a place to go. They agree to the offer from the OPA terrorist leader, Fred Johnson, to go to Tycho station. Johnson gives instructions to change the shuttles transponder code. - A transmission from one of the shuttle survivors (that a Mars ship destroyed the Canterbury) has gotten out and caused riots on Ceres. - Flashback 11 years ago to Anderson station which had civilians protesting poor treatment of children. It was destroyed by a UN officer who turns out to be Fred Johnson, also known as the Butcher of Anderson station. - The woman leader of the UN on earth? Nothing about her. - The Mormons? Also nothing. ** The series is becoming more annoying as it drags along. I thought "Dark Matter" had become too simple in the middle of season 2. But now I'm thinking, I'd like to switch back to DM for a while just to watch a straight science fiction story for a change. BB ;-)
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rowan
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Post by rowan on Feb 8, 2017 10:46:51 GMT
So none of you have read the book(s) on which this is based? That would be 'Leviathian Wakes' by James S.A Corey. His series of books is called Expanse, there are so far six books and as far as I can see each season of the TV series will cover one book. The books, incidentally, are far superior to the TV series - they made some uncalled-for changes in the plot for TV which have simply confused the issue - especially as regards the end which is completely different from the book and in such a way as to change the whole rest of plotline as well - ie none of the following seasons can now follow the books. Something there was no need for - I always get the feeling TV showrunners do this out of sheer power-hungriness, they cannot bear the idea that it isn't their original story!
Anyway, I definitely recommend the books if you like space operas!
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OldDood
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Post by OldDood on Feb 8, 2017 11:31:00 GMT
So none of you have read the book(s) on which this is based? That would be 'Leviathian Wakes' by James S.A Corey. His series of books is called Expanse, there are so far six books and as far as I can see each season of the TV series will cover one book. The books, incidentally, are far superior to the TV series - they made some uncalled-for changes in the plot for TV which have simply confused the issue - especially as regards the end which is completely different from the book and in such a way as to change the whole rest of plotline as well - ie none of the following seasons can now follow the books. Something there was no need for - I always get the feeling TV showrunners do this out of sheer power-hungriness, they cannot bear the idea that it isn't their original story! Anyway, I definitely recommend the books if you like space operas! Well, it is true that showrunners 'change' what is in the novels they produce their shows from I do not think they simply changed the show from the books out of 'Power-Hungriness'. I feel they were a bit more pragmatic. Plus the cost of producing the show would have factors too. I am sure they were under the gun with the 1st season to get the go ahead for a 2nd season. Since they have more episodes to work with for the 2nd season I am looking forward to some awesome story telling. The TV show is far from perfect. (What is?) For example: I do not like the casting for Bobby Draper at all. Nothing against the actress but in my mind's eye Gunny was physically HUGE and still very attractive. This actress is just way to small for the role and does not 'Intimidate' like the Book Bobby Draper did. Still, they did some very good CGI on this show along with moving the story ahead as best as possible with network TV. It is one of the best Sci-Fi shows produced since the recent Battlestar Galactica and of course my all time favorite Babylon 5.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 6:17:18 GMT
I read the first book before seeing the show, so i was largely unimpressed with the show. It did hold true to the basic plot/ premise of the books, but its messing with the plotlines by putting the scenes/ politics of earth in too early. Had they held back (shown less & told more in terms of dialogue) on the earth scenes it could have built suspense.
Not to mention, the characters are presented well... at face value, but the actors portraying them (w/ exception to Thomas Jayne) have a lot to learn, especially the one they picked to be the "captain of the Roanoke... The show is probably the best sci-fi show out atm, but thats not saying much...
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 11, 2017 6:53:04 GMT
I don't know why SyFy chose this particular series to sink all this money into. There are much better SF books and series they could have used as source material. The Expanse isn't bad, but imagine a series based on The Culture or Known Space.
This past week's episode was just bad. Without getting into spoilers, when these Canadian sci-fi shows try to do bar scenes they always come out cheesy and overwhelmingly...Canadian. It's like every bar in Canada is The Max from Saved By The Bell. Also, the Martian Marines are hilariously wrong in every way. It's clear they didn't have a single person on the writing team who knows anything about the military. With all the attention to detail in so many other departments, you'd think they would at least try to make that part of the show realistic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 7:14:16 GMT
I don't know why SyFy chose this particular series to sink all this money into. There are much better SF books and series they could have used as source material. couldn't agree more. one example is William Gibson's "Sprawl Series." that could make for some epic sci-fi... if Gibson's work could ever be adapted to the screen successfully.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 7:02:50 GMT
I am very disappointed in "The Expanse". The production values are great, but the plot isn't interesting, neither on paper nor the way it is told, and none of the characters feel remotely interesting to me. As such, I actually find the show somewhat annoying.
The best new sci-fi show, hands down, is "Incorporated", also from SyFy. THAT is proper science fiction.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 16, 2017 8:46:58 GMT
After watching a "Dark Matter" episode, I came back to "The Expanse" episode 6 "Rock Bottom". With episode 6 things got so vague and disjointed that I needed to read up about what I watched to get more clarity. (I didn't want to slog through watching this again.) SPOILERS - The woman leader of the UN on earth, Chrisjen Avasarala, is back. She wants a man named Davila to allow her to get information from Davila's spy on Tycho Station about Fred Johnson. Davila at first refuses. Avasarala threatens to stop the parole of Davila's son. Davila caves in to the pressure. Another person, Errinwright, objects to Avasarala methods but she says that Fred Johnson is building a huge ship, he's OPA, (the OPA had Avasarala's son killed) and Johnson needs to be watched. Errinwright gives permission. - The freighter (Canterbury) survivors traveling in a shuttle from the Mars ship (Donnager) arrive at Tycho station run by the OPA leader, Fred Johnson. Johnson interacts with James Holden (who had claimed in a broadcast that a Mars ship destroyed the Canterbury causing riots on Ceres). Johnson gets Holden and the rest of the shuttle crew to try to find Lionel Polanski, supposedly the survivor of the Scopuli, an OPA ship that Johnson sent on a recon mission. Johnson has the Rocinante shuttle changed so it looks like a gas freighter. Johnson takes the dead body of the Mars soldier, Lopez, from the shuttle and gets a data chip from the uniform. The shuttle crew is being spied on. - Uncle Mateo and his nephew are in a ship looking for ore / ice on asteroids. They get boarded by a Mars patrol ship. Mateo has out of date clearance and his cargo is to be confiscated. Mateo is so angry he puts his nephew off the ship and releases his rocks towards the Mars ship. The Mars ship blows up Mateo's ship. - The Ceres station OPA operative, Anderson Dawes, tortures the detective, Joe Miller, about the missing woman Julie Mao. Anderson has two underlings take Joe to be vented into space. The thugs are killed by Octavia who saves Joe. - Joe, had gotten some information from Julie Mao's chip (which she got from the data broker) which includes a video. Joes talks about this to his superior, Captain Shaddid. Joe has more on his theory concerning Julie, that she had information about a bioweapon that was being developed on Phoebe Station. Powerful forces, wanted that weapon; OPA? Unknown ships? Then fighting broke out. Joe gets fired by his superior and is led out of the police office. - The Mormons? Again nothing. * I'll again take a break by watching another "Dark Matter" episode, then I'll come back to do more homework with "The Expanse". Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 19, 2017 2:35:29 GMT
After watching a "Dark Matter" episode, I came back to "The Expanse" episode 6 "Rock Bottom". With episode 6 things got so vague and disjointed that I needed to read up about what I watched to get more clarity. (I didn't want to slog through watching this again.) SPOILERS - The woman leader of the UN on earth, Chrisjen Avasarala, is back. She wants a man named Davila to allow her to get information from Davila's spy on Tycho Station about Fred Johnson. Davila at first refuses. Avasarala threatens to stop the parole of Davila's son. Davila caves in to the pressure. Another person, Errinwright, objects to Avasarala methods but she says that Fred Johnson is building a huge ship, he's OPA, (the OPA had Avasarala's son killed) and Johnson needs to be watched. Errinwright gives permission. - The freighter (Canterbury) survivors traveling in a shuttle from the Mars ship (Donnager) arrive at Tycho station run by the OPA leader, Fred Johnson. Johnson interacts with James Holden (who had claimed in a broadcast that a Mars ship destroyed the Canterbury causing riots on Ceres). Johnson gets Holden and the rest of the shuttle crew to try to find Lionel Polanski, supposedly the survivor of the Scopuli, an OPA ship that Johnson sent on a recon mission. Johnson has the Rocinante shuttle changed so it looks like a gas freighter. Johnson takes the dead body of the Mars soldier, Lopez, from the shuttle and gets a data chip from the uniform. The shuttle crew is being spied on. - Uncle Mateo and his nephew are in a ship looking for ore / ice on asteroids. They get boarded by a Mars patrol ship. Mateo has out of date clearance and his cargo is to be confiscated. Mateo is so angry he puts his nephew off the ship and releases his rocks towards the Mars ship. The Mars ship blows up Mateo's ship. - The Ceres station OPA operative, Anderson Dawes, tortures the detective, Joe Miller, about the missing woman Julie Mao. Anderson has two underlings take Joe to be vented into space. The thugs are killed by Octavia who saves Joe. - Joe, had gotten some information from Julie Mao's chip (which she got from the data broker) which includes a video. Joes talks about this to his superior, Captain Shaddid. Joe has more on his theory concerning Julie, that she had information about a bioweapon that was being developed on Phoebe Station. Powerful forces, wanted that weapon; OPA? Unknown ships? Then fighting broke out. Joe gets fired by his superior and is led out of the police office. - The Mormons? Again nothing. * I'll again take a break by watching another "Dark Matter" episode, then I'll come back to do more homework with "The Expanse". Imo at least, BB ;-) The Mormons are like a long-form Chekhov's gun...the show wants to plant this idea in the audience's head that the Mormons have contracted Fred Johnson and Tycho Station to build the Nauvoo, a colony ship that will carry thousands of passengers on a journey to another star system. Since The Expanse seems to hew closely to known science and doesn't feature magic star drives or anything like that, the Nauvoo trip is expected to take more than a century, with the ship traveling at a fraction of the speed of light. There's mention that the grandchildren of the people who leave on the ship won't even see the end of the journey, so the Mormons had difficulty finding contractors who were willing to build the ship and provide the expertise needed for its systems. Lots of people find the idea of condemning at least two generations to live aboard a ship their entire lives -- being born into it, with no choice in the matter -- unethical. Because the ship can only accelerate to a fraction of the speed of light, it's not fast enough to really take advantage of relativistic time dilation. (By the way, there are lots of great science fiction books exploring the concept of colony ships and the psychological toll of living and dying aboard a ship without ever setting foot on a world.) One of the authors said on Twitter that the Uncle Mateo/Diogo scene was inspired by a single throw-away line from the first book about Belters rebelling against Martian authorities in every way they could. I thought that was a great scene in an anotherwise clunky episode -- it shows us how the Belters really do get the boot heel, and that they have good reasons for despising both Earth and Mars. The Miller storyline is kind of circular. Anderson Dawes wanted Miller to accept his "gift" of the guy who spiked Havelock, but if Miller accepted and went to get payback, he'd be in Dawes' pocket. So he refused, which apparently enraged Dawes enough to order his minions to kill Miller. I like Octavia Muss and the actress who plays here. Pity she didn't have a bigger role.
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 19, 2017 2:41:31 GMT
For anyone who's caught up, didn't this past episode remind you of the Fifth Element? There's now this sentient biomass that has its own world/rock and is speeding toward Earth, already rendering useless the first attempt to by men to destroy it. From the previews for next episode, it looks just like that scene out of the Fifth Element when the president of the UN orders his fleet to fire missiles at the incoming entity...and we can be pretty sure the missiles won't do the job. BTW. Fred Johnson's assistant is fine! I don't know what her name is on the show, but she's a hottie. I hope we see more of her.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 20, 2017 0:40:19 GMT
After watching a "Dark Matter" episode, I came back to "The Expanse" episode 6 "Rock Bottom". With episode 6 things got so vague and disjointed that I needed to read up about what I watched to get more clarity. (I didn't want to slog through watching this again.) SPOILERS - Uncle Mateo and his nephew are in a ship looking for ore / ice on asteroids. They get boarded by a Mars patrol ship. Mateo has out of date clearance and his cargo is to be confiscated. Mateo is so angry he puts his nephew off the ship and releases his rocks towards the Mars ship. The Mars ship blows up Mateo's ship... - The Mormons? Again nothing. * I'll again take a break by watching another "Dark Matter" episode, then I'll come back to do more homework with "The Expanse". Imo at least, BB ;-) The Mormons are like a long-form Chekhov's gun...the show wants to plant this idea in the audience's head that the Mormons have contracted Fred Johnson and Tycho Station to build the Nauvoo, a colony ship that will carry thousands of passengers on a journey to another star system. Since The Expanse seems to hew closely to known science and doesn't feature magic star drives or anything like that, the Nauvoo trip is expected to take more than a century, with the ship traveling at a fraction of the speed of light... One of the authors said on Twitter that the Uncle Mateo/Diogo scene was inspired by a single throw-away line from the first book about Belters rebelling against Martian authorities in every way they could. I thought that was a great scene in an anotherwise clunky episode -- it shows us how the Belters really do get the boot heel, and that they have good reasons for despising both Earth and Mars. Thanks. You explained the Mormon storyline better than the series did. And your information about the generation ship helps to understand other things in the show. As for Uncle Mateo, his scenes seemed like a throwaway moment and your information confirms it. A vague series loaded with story threads, and when it's not necessary, the writers want it to be more overloaded with a throwaway scene. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 20, 2017 9:48:42 GMT
No problem.
So you don't have any problems with Dark Matter, or are your expectations just lower for that show? I watch because of Jodelle Ferland, and because it airs during the summer when nothing else is on, but it's painfully bad sometimes.
The action girl trope is taken beyond the extreme, beaten like a dead horse, resurrected, then beaten again on that show. There isn't a single episode without at least one scene showing 105-pound women beating the everliving hell out of heavily muscled men, to the point where I'm pretty sure Joseph Malozzi just gets off on it.
There are also several references to being "intergalactic traders" and such, making it clear the writers of a science fiction show set in space don't understand what a galaxy is or appreciate its scale. Even in a series that ignores the laws of physics and has ships going light speed, it would still take something like 2.5 million years to reach the closest galaxy, which is more than 12 times the entire history of homo sapiens.
Assuming there are other intelligent civilizations out there, entire species would rise and fall by the hundreds of thousands before someone could travel to Andromeda, make a trade, and return to the Milky Way.
I'm a fan of the BSG reboot series and Star Trek, so obviously I don't mind if science fiction bends the rules of physics, but I admit it does annoy me when the creators and writers behind a science fiction show don't get basic stuff right.
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