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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 19, 2017 8:10:13 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences.
Any pronoun they choose, including made up imaginary words.
Do the people pushing for this speak for the LGBT community?
Anyway, I plan to have some fun with the new laws.
I am a Dolphin.
I will be expecting people to address me by my prefered pronoun in my native Dolphin language.
If they resist, I will expect the Human Rights Tribunal to stand up for my rights. I will not be discriminated against. If we're going to play the fun pronoun game I get to play too.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jul 19, 2017 12:52:39 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences. Any pronoun they choose, including made up imaginary words. Do the people pushing for this speak for the LGBT community? Anyway, I plan to have some fun with the new laws. I am a Dolphin. I will be expecting people to address me by my prefered pronoun in my native Dolphin language. If they resist, I will expect the Human Rights Tribunal to stand up for my rights. I will not be discriminated against. If we're going to play the fun pronoun game I get to play too. The spirit of the law is clearly to protect trans people. The only people who are going to demand really weird pronouns are right-wingers trying to attack trans rights.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 19, 2017 13:20:14 GMT
Dolphin is not a pronoun. Now would you like to be referred to as a he or a she dolphin? A male dolphin is called 'bull'. Right now I'm a male dolphin, but tomorrow... who knows?
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 19, 2017 13:22:37 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences. Any pronoun they choose, including made up imaginary words. Do the people pushing for this speak for the LGBT community? Anyway, I plan to have some fun with the new laws. I am a Dolphin. I will be expecting people to address me by my prefered pronoun in my native Dolphin language. If they resist, I will expect the Human Rights Tribunal to stand up for my rights. I will not be discriminated against. If we're going to play the fun pronoun game I get to play too. The spirit of the law is clearly to protect trans people. The only people who are going to demand really weird pronouns are right-wingers trying to attack trans rights. Actually, I hear many trans people don't think the pronoun issue is all that relevant. Most of them just want to be addressed by the other pronoun. All this stuff about over 20 pronouns is silly nonsense. Calling someone by their made up pronoun will not make their life any easier. If what pronoun someone uses when addressing you has that much impact on your mental state then you are destined to suffer unless you get some good therapy.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jul 19, 2017 13:33:42 GMT
Actually, I hear many trans people don't think the pronoun issue is all that relevant. Most of them just want to be addressed by the other pronoun. Sure but this law will make sure they do get to be called by that other pronoun. As you say, how many will actually want to be called anything other than "he", "she" or "they"? But if there are a very few who would prefer something else then fair enough.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 19, 2017 13:38:10 GMT
Actually, I hear many trans people don't think the pronoun issue is all that relevant. Most of them just want to be addressed by the other pronoun. Sure but this law will make sure they do get to be called by that other pronoun. As you say, how many will actually want to be called anything other than "he", "she" or "they"? But if there are a very few who would prefer something else then fair enough. The law compelling people to use made up words is stupid, so I will draw attention to how stupid that law is by expecting people to use my pronoun. If someone doesn't use my pronoun, I will say it hurts my feelings. Who is anyone to doubt my statement? If I say my feelings are hurt THAT'S ALL I NEED TO PROVE MY CASE.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jul 19, 2017 14:22:26 GMT
Sure but this law will make sure they do get to be called by that other pronoun. As you say, how many will actually want to be called anything other than "he", "she" or "they"? But if there are a very few who would prefer something else then fair enough. The law compelling people to use made up words is stupid, so I will draw attention to how stupid that law is by expecting people to use my pronoun. If someone doesn't use my pronoun, I will say it hurts my feelings. Who is anyone to doubt my statement? If I say my feelings are hurt THAT'S ALL I NEED TO PROVE MY CASE. What good will that do though? The law is to stop people getting away with deliberately calling people by pronouns they hate as a form of abuse (eg repeatedly calling a transwoman "he"). Sure as a side-effect there's a loophole that means if someone wants you to only use the pronoun "sphworcle" when referring to him/her/sphworcle you have to do it but are you really likely to bump into that except when it's people like you taking the piss? It seems undermining the law by drawing attention to this unintended and essentially harmless loophole would do more harm than good.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 19, 2017 14:47:06 GMT
The law compelling people to use made up words is stupid, so I will draw attention to how stupid that law is by expecting people to use my pronoun. If someone doesn't use my pronoun, I will say it hurts my feelings. Who is anyone to doubt my statement? If I say my feelings are hurt THAT'S ALL I NEED TO PROVE MY CASE. What good will that do though? The law is to stop people getting away with deliberately calling people by pronouns they hate as a form of abuse (eg repeatedly calling a transwoman "he"). Sure as a side-effect there's a loophole that means if someone wants you to only use the pronoun "sphworcle" when referring to him/her/sphworcle you have to do it but are you really likely to bump into that except when it's people like you taking the piss? It seems undermining the law by drawing attention to this unintended and essentially harmless loophole would do more harm than good. If people accept poorly written laws then those laws will never change. As it is, this law is a great way to go after someone who might not like me personally for reasons other than my gender or sexuality. All I have to do is prove they didn't respect whatever pronoun I choose, and say my feelings were hurt and I wasn't respected as a person.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 16:07:59 GMT
I have no problem with people using xe and xir for gender neutral (or whichever one wins out).
I think it actually fits better than they or them because that implies plural which would be hard to do with contracts ect.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 20, 2017 3:45:51 GMT
A male dolphin is called 'bull'. Right now I'm a male dolphin, but tomorrow... who knows? So you are full of bull then? Right up to the brim.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jul 20, 2017 11:48:40 GMT
Do murder laws protect everyone from being killed? There would probably be a lot more murders without murder laws. Just because a law is not 100% effective, that doesn't mean it's not effective at all.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jul 20, 2017 14:38:09 GMT
The majority of people know how to act and behave and if someone is going to pre-mediate to kill somebody, I would say they would do it regardless, laws or not. You don't believe punishment is an effective deterrent then?
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 1, 2017 22:06:22 GMT
I don't like any laws that dictate speech in any form. I don't care what people want to call themselves or have others call them, but that shouldn't be enforced by law.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Aug 1, 2017 23:30:55 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences. Any pronoun they choose, including made up imaginary words. Do the people pushing for this speak for the LGBT community? Anyway, I plan to have some fun with the new laws. I am a Dolphin. I will be expecting people to address me by my prefered pronoun in my native Dolphin language. If they resist, I will expect the Human Rights Tribunal to stand up for my rights. I will not be discriminated against. If we're going to play the fun pronoun game I get to play too. Dolphin is an interesting choice. Trudeau thinks he's the dauphin!
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 2, 2017 12:23:51 GMT
The majority of people know how to act and behave and if someone is going to pre-mediate to kill somebody, I would say they would do it regardless, laws or not. You don't believe punishment is an effective deterrent then? Do you really believe that people should be punished for not using a pronoun? Anyway, it's all a bit strange to me. For years the argument for equal rights for gay people was that they were born that way, and I agree with that. But these new laws seem to state that gender AND sexuality can be 'fluid', and change at a whim from day to day, and that people can choose what gender and/or sexuality they want.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 12:37:24 GMT
Do you really believe that people should be punished for not using a pronoun? Depends on the circumstances. For instance, if someone has been told a colleague prefers to go by "she" and yet purposefully refers to her as "he" then they deserve to be reprimanded. I don't see it as any different to calling a black colleague the n-word. Obviously I'm not saying slips of the tongue or not knowing the situation should be punishable. I feel that's too simple an interpretation. The idea is more that some people are born with more fluid gender and sexuality than others. That doesn't mean that some people aren't just simply born gay or straight or trans or cis just that some are also born somewhere in the middle ground.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 2, 2017 12:41:39 GMT
Do you really believe that people should be punished for not using a pronoun? Depends on the circumstances. For instance, if someone has been told a colleague prefers to go by "she" and yet purposefully refers to her as "he" then they deserve to be reprimanded. I don't see it as any different to calling a black colleague the n-word. Obviously I'm not saying slips of the tongue or not knowing the situation should be punishable. I feel that's too simple an interpretation. The idea is more that some people are born with more fluid gender and sexuality than others. That doesn't mean that some people aren't just simply born gay or straight or trans or cis just that some are also born somewhere in the middle ground. Wow. It must be hell to wake up every day and not know if your gender has switched from what it was yesterday.. Do the parents ask 'What's your gender like today sweetie?'
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 12:46:41 GMT
Depends on the circumstances. For instance, if someone has been told a colleague prefers to go by "she" and yet purposefully refers to her as "he" then they deserve to be reprimanded. I don't see it as any different to calling a black colleague the n-word. Obviously I'm not saying slips of the tongue or not knowing the situation should be punishable. I feel that's too simple an interpretation. The idea is more that some people are born with more fluid gender and sexuality than others. That doesn't mean that some people aren't just simply born gay or straight or trans or cis just that some are also born somewhere in the middle ground. Wow. It must be hell to wake up every day and not know if your gender has switched from what it was yesterday.. Do the parents ask 'What's your gender like today sweetie?' I'm not gender fluid so I couldn't tell you. But just because you find something hard to fathom doesn't mean it's not a thing.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Aug 2, 2017 12:51:11 GMT
Wow. It must be hell to wake up every day and not know if your gender has switched from what it was yesterday.. Do the parents ask 'What's your gender like today sweetie?' I'm not gender fluid so I couldn't tell you. But just because you find something hard to fathom doesn't mean it's not a thing. Oh, I believe it's a thing, for about 0.001 % of the population. They believe in it, so it must exist. IMO it's all a bunch of narcissistic naval gazing. If they want to walk a spiritual path at some point they will learn that they are not their bodies and not their genders. By identifying with the body they make their suffering inevitable.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 12:53:47 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences. Yikes, that's pretty ridiculous. You know how I feel about any speech laws.
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