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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 14:24:37 GMT
I'm not asking you if it's understandable. I'm asking you if you believe that people should be hurt by speech. If you do, I'm asking you why you believe they should be. I'm not going to let you just ignore answering this if we're going to continue to have a conversation. There's no reason why one should be hurt by anything. Doesn't mean you should tolerate being hurt by bullies, just because you're struggling to shrug it off like an ultra-rational person could. ?? So you'd say that if someone stabs you, you shouldn't be cut by the knife?
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 14:28:38 GMT
There's no reason why one should be hurt by anything. Doesn't mean you should tolerate being hurt by bullies, just because you're struggling to shrug it off like an ultra-rational person could. ?? So you'd say that if someone stabs you, you shouldn't be cut by the knife? Ok you shouldn't be "emotionally hurt" by anything
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 14:29:57 GMT
?? So you'd say that if someone stabs you, you shouldn't be cut by the knife? Ok you shouldn't be "emotionally hurt" by anything So if you agree that people shouldn't be hurt by speech, how can we help those people so that there's a better change that they're not longer hurt by speech? Why don't we work on that?
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 14:36:25 GMT
Ok you shouldn't be "emotionally hurt" by anything So if you agree that people shouldn't be hurt by speech, how can we help those people so that there's a better change that they're not longer hurt by speech? Why don't we work on that? And verbal abusers get free rein while we work on that? And the bullied adopt Uncle Tom-ism until either they're no longer hurt by deliberate attempts to hurt them or the abusers start liking them for being their punching bag? No thanks.
We can work on toughening people up as well, but that doesn't mean we should tolerate bullying of the not-so-tough in the meantime.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 14:40:45 GMT
So if you agree that people shouldn't be hurt by speech, how can we help those people so that there's a better change that they're not longer hurt by speech? Why don't we work on that? And verbal abusers get free rein while we work on that?
How about an answer to how we can help those people and why we don't work on that?
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 14:55:31 GMT
And verbal abusers get free rein while we work on that?
How about an answer to how we can help those people and why we don't work on that? Sure, I mean I'm all for "re-educating" the bully. But if it's not working, then continued bullying shouldn't be tolerated.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 14:57:12 GMT
How about an answer to how we can help those people and why we don't work on that? Sure, I mean I'm all for "re-educating" the bully. But if it's not working, then continued bullying shouldn't be tolerated. "Re-educating the bully" is helping people not be upset by speech? Is the bully the person upset by speech?
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 15:13:01 GMT
Sure, I mean I'm all for "re-educating" the bully. But if it's not working, then continued bullying shouldn't be tolerated. "Re-educating the bully" is helping people not be upset by speech? Is the bully the person upset by speech? Sorry, I misunderstood you. How do you propose training people not to get upset by verbal abuse? And what should be done in the meantime?
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 16:59:32 GMT
"Re-educating the bully" is helping people not be upset by speech? Is the bully the person upset by speech? Sorry, I misunderstood you. How do you propose training people not to get upset by verbal abuse? And what should be done in the meantime? It's just like we try to help people not freak out when they hear helicopters, just in case that's a symptom of their PSTD, or when we try to help people with agoraphobia be capable of dealing with certain public situations, or when we try to help people with paranoia realize that not everyone is out to get them, or when we try to help people with certain kinds of OCD not have to wash their hands until they bleed. There's no guarantee that we can cure those things, but it is possible to help many people with those problems. And what do we do until they can get more systematic help? We do the same thing we do in the above situations: as friends, family members, etc., we try to help folks cope with their conditions as best as we can and try to help them be rational about it, lessen the reactions, and so on.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 17:29:51 GMT
And what do we do until they can get more systematic help? We do the same thing we do in the above situations: as friends, family members, etc., we try to help folks cope with their conditions as best as we can and try to help them be rational about it, lessen the reactions, and so on. And let bullies away with their vindictiveness? I can't agree there.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 20:09:35 GMT
And what do we do until they can get more systematic help? We do the same thing we do in the above situations: as friends, family members, etc., we try to help folks cope with their conditions as best as we can and try to help them be rational about it, lessen the reactions, and so on. And let bullies away with their vindictiveness? I can't agree there. The problem is that you're seeing it as there being something inherently wrong with speech. There isn't. There's nothing wrong with any speech.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 2, 2017 22:37:10 GMT
And let bullies away with their vindictiveness? I can't agree there. The problem is that you're seeing it as there being something inherently wrong with speech. There isn't. There's nothing wrong with any speech. No I'm not. The speech rightly or wrongly does hurt people and purposefully using it to hurt people shouldn't be tolerated. You seem to be saying that because people have no logical reason to be hurt by verbal abuse, such abuse is not wrong. My stance is that until we get to the stage where people are unfazed by verbal abuse, then it is wrong.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 2, 2017 23:16:03 GMT
You seem to be saying that because people have no logical reason to be hurt by verbal abuse, such abuse is not wrong. Correct, because the flaw is in the reaction, not the speech itself.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Aug 3, 2017 1:26:58 GMT
Pronoun trouble. It's not he doesn't have to shoot you now. It's he doesn't have to shoot me now. Well I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Aug 5, 2017 1:05:45 GMT
Wow, this topic went off the rails but I guess that's to be expected. I'll try to add my two cents. First off, work places can have their own rules without needing government laws to force them. More importantly, I've always been a believer that you can't legislate compassion. Things are different than they were years ago but it's not because of new laws. We are a constantly evolving species and we're learning more and more that judging someone based on what they're born as is wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 21:35:31 GMT
Here in Canada they're making it a law that you need to address people by their prefered pronoun or face consequences. Any pronoun they choose, including made up imaginary words. Do the people pushing for this speak for the LGBT community? Anyway, I plan to have some fun with the new laws. I am a Dolphin. I will be expecting people to address me by my prefered pronoun in my native Dolphin language. If they resist, I will expect the Human Rights Tribunal to stand up for my rights. I will not be discriminated against. If we're going to play the fun pronoun game I get to play too. If you're the dolphin, I am the Walrus,
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