|
Post by Marv on Jul 26, 2017 18:54:59 GMT
The answer is no, they cannot expect others to kill them. Whether fortunately or unfortunately, I agree. Essentially I don't think we should be able to force anyone to kill anyone, so the expectation should not be there.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 26, 2017 19:03:21 GMT
I answered that quite clearly. I must confess I do not think it was very clear, let me see if I understand: A person who is depressed but physically capable is able to end their lives because they do not require assistance, but a person who is bedridden and in extreme pain that will not end is not able to end their lives because they would require assistance. Does that sum up your view point? You're missing the point by switching responsibility.
I am saying no one else but the one who wants to kill themselves is obligated to help them with that. If you think they are then you are wrong.
That has nothing to do with people who are out there that are willing to help someone kill themselves.
But I already said this so maybe you still won't get it...
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Jul 26, 2017 19:07:39 GMT
I must confess I do not think it was very clear, let me see if I understand: A person who is depressed but physically capable is able to end their lives because they do not require assistance, but a person who is bedridden and in extreme pain that will not end is not able to end their lives because they would require assistance. Does that sum up your view point? You're missing the point by switching responsibility.
I am saying no one else but the one who wants to kill themselves is obligated to help them with that. If you think they are then you are wrong.
That has nothing to do with people who are out there that are willing to help someone kill themselves.
But I already said this so maybe you still won't get it...
I have never said anyone is required to help kill others, wow, I have no idea at all why you would think that was a stance I was prepared to argue. we may have got crossed wires, I have no idea why you replied to me if this is the argument you are making as I never made any argument of the sort.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jul 26, 2017 19:43:07 GMT
Chronic depression and mental illness are not "acts" in the first place No, they're mental conditions that drive the act. It seems their nature would comment on the act. "You need to be less selfish" isn't generally heard in response to people suffering mental conditions, mostly because the actions taken are due to the mental condition, not a personality aspect we'd ascribe to a more balanced individual. For instance, dubbing a chronically depressed narcoleptic "lazy" would sort of ignore the nature of the issue. True. But I would never call a chronically depressed narcoleptic "lazy" because narcolepsy is a medical condition outside of their control. They are not choosing to fall asleep. Being horny drives pedophiles to molest children. Being a pedophile is the sickness and I don't blame them for being sick. But molesting children is a choice, and the law absolutely holds them accountable as criminal sex offenders when they do. The fact that they are sick, or that their sickness compelled them to act becomes irrelevant at that point because they chose to harm someone else.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jul 26, 2017 19:45:07 GMT
A) I'm glad that you conceded that you were in fact wrong about Alzheimer's. Not everyone here has such humility. B) What's your point? b. My point is that there are circumstances where one chooses suicide although they are not yet unwell, the do it to avoid the future when they will not have that opportunity, or to avoid the pain entirely. Tony Scott for example. Okay, but I do not believe the statistics reflect that most suicides are done by people using this motive. I'm more curious about the people who are NOT dying of some terminal illness who decide to commit suicide.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Jul 26, 2017 19:49:09 GMT
b. My point is that there are circumstances where one chooses suicide although they are not yet unwell, the do it to avoid the future when they will not have that opportunity, or to avoid the pain entirely. Tony Scott for example. Okay, but I do not believe the statistics reflect that most suicides are done by people using this motive. I'm more curious about the people who are NOT dying of some terminal illness who decide to commit suicide. I had not realised you were looking at the statistically common suicides, this is why I do not think your OP was well constructed, it was so vague as to make any answer wrong as long as you introduce a qualifier to the OP.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 26, 2017 19:52:49 GMT
You're missing the point by switching responsibility.
I am saying no one else but the one who wants to kill themselves is obligated to help them with that. If you think they are then you are wrong.
That has nothing to do with people who are out there that are willing to help someone kill themselves.
But I already said this so maybe you still won't get it...
I have never said anyone is required to help kill others, wow, I have no idea at all why you would think that was a stance I was prepared to argue. we may have got crossed wires, I have no idea why you replied to me if this is the argument you are making as I never made any argument of the sort. I never said you did.
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Jul 26, 2017 19:58:55 GMT
I have never said anyone is required to help kill others, wow, I have no idea at all why you would think that was a stance I was prepared to argue. we may have got crossed wires, I have no idea why you replied to me if this is the argument you are making as I never made any argument of the sort. I never said you did. You never sad I didn't.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 26, 2017 21:15:59 GMT
Why would I say that you didn't say that if that wasn't the topic of conversation?
|
|
|
Post by gadreel on Jul 26, 2017 21:19:45 GMT
Why would I say that you didn't say that if that wasn't the topic of conversation?
I'm kidding. I was just being silly, I think we got our wires crossed.
|
|
fatpaul
Sophomore
@fatpaul
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
|
Post by fatpaul on Jul 27, 2017 7:46:20 GMT
'Is suicide an acceptable method of dealing with depression?'
Fella, if you think suicide is the answer then do what you think is right as it doesn't matter what other people think but just to rest your mind, I clicked acceptable. Just one little request tho! I've asked a question of one of your posts on another thread so if you don't mind answering it first before you off yourself, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Btw, I like the way you have loaded the poll, if it was a rolling die, it would land on a corner! But did you know that you have inadvertently created a false dichotomy. I hope no one noticed, don't want you to get more depressed... anyways... forget I mentioned it!
|
|
|
Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Jul 27, 2017 10:53:32 GMT
Suicide is always terrible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 17:54:16 GMT
It should be everyone's right. Nobody chose to be born, and nobody should owe their suffering to somebody else (except perhaps a parent with young children). I suppose that by definition, it could be called selfish since it prioritises one's own interests; but it is justifiable to be selfish some times, and most of the people who criticise suicide as selfish have no concept of the scale of sacrifice that they are asking someone else to make (and have likely never have made such a profound sacrifice for someone else in their lives).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 17:56:20 GMT
It may not be selfish although it is almost always stupid &/or irrational. I don't get how it can be stupid, and especially not how it can be irrational. But you are a theist, of course. Certain methods of attempting suicide are stupid and irrational. But if you have a problem, what better to do with it than solve it? If you succeed and there is nothing in the afterlife, then you've no need of whatever brighter future may have lay waiting round the corner had you clung on to life.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 28, 2017 17:59:26 GMT
I'm not basing my view of suicide on my religious beliefs except maybe in the context of valuing life over death.
There's plenty of rational reason to counter the stupidity of suicide.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 18:02:17 GMT
I'm not basing my view of suicide on my religious beliefs except maybe in the context of valuing life over death. There's plenty of rational reason to counter the stupidity of suicide. Religious views usually do tend to bleed into questions such as this one, which is why I am anti-religion. And what are some of the rational reasons not to commit suicide, apart from the selfless acts of sacrifice for the sake of others? What's more rational to do about a problem other than solving it and pre-empting any future problems?
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 28, 2017 18:13:02 GMT
I'm not basing my view of suicide on my religious beliefs except maybe in the context of valuing life over death. There's plenty of rational reason to counter the stupidity of suicide. Religious views usually do tend to bleed into questions such as this one, which is why I am anti-religion. And what are some of the rational reasons not to commit suicide, apart from the selfless acts of sacrifice for the sake of others? What's more rational to do about a problem other than solving it and pre-empting any future problems? You are the one arguing for it's awesomeness, I would think you would have a list ready.
|
|
|
Post by general313 on Jul 28, 2017 19:21:37 GMT
Religious views usually do tend to bleed into questions such as this one, which is why I am anti-religion. And what are some of the rational reasons not to commit suicide, apart from the selfless acts of sacrifice for the sake of others? What's more rational to do about a problem other than solving it and pre-empting any future problems? You are the one arguing for it's awesomeness, I would think you would have a list ready. I'm curious to see your list of reasons why it's stupid.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 28, 2017 19:28:39 GMT
You are the one arguing for it's awesomeness, I would think you would have a list ready. I'm curious to see your list of reasons why it's stupid. Making yet another list about this bores me. I'm not realy here to argue the point again and I am making that assessment as a statement of fact rather than debate.
I've said plenty on the subject in the past and it shouldn't come as a shocker that at least a few people would have issues with the notions of suicide being a good thing.
Most reasons should be common sense and if they don't seem that way, then they would hardly be convincing for someone who is pro-suicide as the smart choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 20:22:15 GMT
I think since almost everyone here already addressed this isn't a fair question, I'm not going to answer this question but give my own opinion about it. I think it's not okay to call people selfish for committing suicide or even having the thoughts about suicide. It's good to be understanding and not try to shame them for it because shaming people only makes their condition worse. We all experience our own suffering so we should be able to relate to each other to some degree, and you should understand that nothing in life is perfect and suicides are understandable even it's not the answer. If you're going to judge someone negatively for killing themselves for whatever reason it shows your own issue of lack of empathy. Therefore, you should focus on where you're flawed in your own way of thinking instead of focusing on someone else's ways of thinking. This would really help you get a better perspective and not to think so black and white.
|
|