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Post by Doctor Omega on Sept 18, 2017 21:27:28 GMT
So what do YOU think of the state of the Doctor Who franchise now?
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Post by Doctor Omega on Sept 18, 2017 21:43:23 GMT
As regards the state of the franchise, well, I kinda miss the days when it was a virtual cottage industry.
A quiet stream of novelisations.
A completely unfaithful and eccentric comic strip - singular - running in some obscure comic or other.
No spin offs except one about a robot dog, with a terrible theme tune.
Barely any merchandise anyway - which was easy on the wallet/pocket money.
No tone meetings with the writers or directors.
No episodes made to sell toys, (Hello new Cybermats!)
It just seems to have gotten a little too big for it's own good i.m.o.
I also, truly, believe that, when the entirety of New Who is on a metaphorical shelf, alongside the original series, that it will be mainly Classic Who that is being pulled off the shelf and watched again and again, despite it's tiny budget. That will be the ultimate proof. The great leveller.
I honestly suspect that a large proportion of "New Who" episodes will be nice to own, but will, in comparison, be rarely pulled down off the shelf as much as the classic ones.
Just a gut feeling, but I honestly think the new series makers blow their own trumpet so much a lot of the time that their conceit spoils the very product that they are making.
The original creators of the classic show were just jobbing whatevers, doing the best they could, in an air of quiet budgetary and time-crunched desperation.
And desperation is, of course.......
Now everything is done with much more freedom of time and a bigger budget.
But I don't think it is necessarily better.
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Post by alpha128 on Sept 19, 2017 11:25:48 GMT
I think the DOCTOR WHO franchise is dead - now that the powers that be have decided that the only way to keep the show "fresh" and "relevant" is to make the Doctor a woman.
There was a time when I was interested in checking out the new series, but that time has passed.
And welcome back to this forum, Doctor Omega!
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Post by Doctor Omega on Sept 19, 2017 11:53:09 GMT
Thank you Alpha!
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Post by azzajones on Sept 21, 2017 22:26:38 GMT
I also, truly, believe that, when the entirety of New Who is on a metaphorical shelf, alongside the original series, that it will be mainly Classic Who that is being pulled off the shelf and watched again and again, despite it's tiny budget. That will be the ultimate proof. The great leveller. I honestly suspect that a large proportion of "New Who" episodes will be nice to own, but will, in comparison, be rarely pulled down off the shelf as much as the classic ones. You're probably right about that, consider Star Trek with all the show that came after the original most fans still consider the 60's original the best by far. It may be TV had much better writers in the 60's.
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Post by Doctor Omega on Sept 25, 2017 21:32:47 GMT
I think that that is true.
I think that we have all read those puff pieces by people involved with the current show, where they have talked about an upcoming episode and waxed lyrical about how emotional this episode is going to be - and how moved the cast were upon reading a particular scene. And how brilliant the acting is going to be.
Then you watch the entire season and are left somewhat disappointed that these magnificent moments somehow eluded you while you were watching each episode.
The old writers and creatives did not waste time crowing about how great a season was going to be.
They were too busy getting that bloody script written for a week next Tuesday or the show doesn't get on the air! Or doing a page one rewrite because what had been handed in by that new writer was bloody awful!
In other words, honing their craft on the job and testing their abilities, often to the max. And producing both rubbish and brilliance, probably in equal measure.
When it was rubbish, my God, it could be profoundly rubbish! But when it was brilliant, my God, it was creatively brilliant.
The new series, cushioned by time and a reasonable budget, has never had to wing it and has never been as restricted by time and budget pressures as the old show was. They have never been desperate.
But art thrives on restrictions. And desperation is the mother of invention. The current, safe series has never been as bad as the old series could be. But I would contend that it has also never been as creatively, madly brilliant as the old series could be too.
Add to that, a possible level of conceit on the part of it's creatives, who are just a little bit too prone to boasting in advance about the delights we are going to experience - and also, I suspect, not adept at taking criticism very well (for I doubt that any of the mainstays of New Who would react to you going up to them and suggesting in any way that "That script could have been just a little bit better!" with either good grace or self deprecating humour) - and I think you therefore have a series that is neither great or awful.
Just safe and, ultimately....mehh!
And I think that history will consign it to being rarely as watched as the original show as a result.
Because it will, I believe, in retrospect, be safe, bland, a bit boring and, ultimately, less fascinating to look at as a whole than the Classic show.
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Post by alpha128 on Sept 25, 2017 23:18:31 GMT
(The old writers) were too busy getting that bloody script written for a week next Tuesday or the show doesn't get on the air! Or doing a page one rewrite because what had been handed in by that new writer was bloody awful! ... art thrives on restrictions. And desperation is the mother of invention. When I read the above, I was reminded of "The Invasion of Time". That serial had a very troubled production history, but when I first saw it, I loved it. I still do, and own it on DVD. In fact it's #9 on my Top 10 Classic Who Stories.
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Post by Doctor Omega on Sept 25, 2017 23:58:35 GMT
Yes, I used to love reading the novelisation of that.
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Post by azzajones on Sept 26, 2017 0:31:06 GMT
I may be wrong about this, but I'm under the impression that during the 60's TV would hire Sci-fi writers to write Sci-fi shows, but nowadays TV doesn't - they instead hire writers that can appeal to the widest demographic (i.e. Russell T. Davies)
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Post by alpha128 on Sept 26, 2017 0:35:44 GMT
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Post by Doctor Omega on Jun 23, 2019 10:16:14 GMT
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Post by Zos on Jun 23, 2019 16:51:25 GMT
It's returned to what it should be which is a children's tv show. Just because some misogynistic nerds started to get the hump doesn't mean that people should forget what it is. This whole generation who watch kids sci fi and superhero stuff need to give themselves a reality check and stop taking this old nonsense so seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 17:33:32 GMT
So what do YOU think of the state of the Doctor Who franchise now? I think it's doing fine, and the "controversy" is a nontroversy.
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Post by ant-mac on Jun 26, 2019 22:13:02 GMT
It's returned to what it should be which is a children's tv show. Just because some misogynistic nerds started to get the hump doesn't mean that people should forget what it is. This whole generation who watch kids sci fi and superhero stuff need to give themselves a reality check and stop taking this old nonsense so seriously. Strange, I always thought DOCTOR WHO was a family TV show. I remember spending countless hours watching Classic Who with my mum as a child, a teenager and even an adult. And why shouldn't people take film or TV they enjoy seriously if they wish? That's why many of them are fans and not just casual viewers. If that happens to be their passion, then it's their right to put as much time and effort into it as they wish to. Just because you don't have any regard for "this old nonsense", doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.
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Post by poelzig on Jun 26, 2019 22:27:10 GMT
I also, truly, believe that, when the entirety of New Who is on a metaphorical shelf, alongside the original series, that it will be mainly Classic Who that is being pulled off the shelf and watched again and again, despite it's tiny budget. That will be the ultimate proof. The great leveller. I honestly suspect that a large proportion of "New Who" episodes will be nice to own, but will, in comparison, be rarely pulled down off the shelf as much as the classic ones. You're probably right about that, consider Star Trek with all the show that came after the original most fans still consider the 60's original the best by far. It may be TV had much better writers in the 60's. You're wrong. Most fans consider The Next Generation the best Trek series. The fact you say by far makes you even more wrong. The fact you think TV had better writers in the 60's makes me wonder if you even watch TV at all.
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Post by poelzig on Jun 26, 2019 23:33:51 GMT
So what do YOU think of the state of the Doctor Who franchise now? I think it's doing fine, and the "controversy" is a nontroversy. So the ratings plummeting even with shit stupid white lib hypocrites tuning in for an episode or two so they can virtue signal about being woke is "doing fine"? That white lib logic is always so odd. You have no problem with the UK being OVERWHELMINGLY white while parading the multicultural Dr Who cast around as if it's typical when it's the exact opposite?
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Post by Zos on Jun 27, 2019 9:42:35 GMT
It's returned to what it should be which is a children's tv show. Just because some misogynistic nerds started to get the hump doesn't mean that people should forget what it is. This whole generation who watch kids sci fi and superhero stuff need to give themselves a reality check and stop taking this old nonsense so seriously. Strange, I always thought DOCTOR WHO was a family TV show. I remember spending countless hours watching Classic Who with my mum as a child, a teenager and even an adult. And why shouldn't people take film or TV they enjoy seriously if they wish? That's why many of them are fans and not just casual viewers. If that happens to be their passion, then it's their right to put as much time and effort into it as they wish to. Just because you don't have any regard for "this old nonsense", doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. I have great regard for it as children's or, as you wish, family TV. Not much for obsessives who get their knickers in a twist when it aims for it's target audience or who believe in a time and space travelling alien with two hearts who regenerates but start screaming like foresaid children when he regenerates into a woman. It is nonsense it's what the word means. Enjoy it by all means but obsessing over men in tights movies is a bit silly once one is over say 13?
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Post by ant-mac on Jun 27, 2019 11:09:24 GMT
Strange, I always thought DOCTOR WHO was a family TV show. I remember spending countless hours watching Classic Who with my mum as a child, a teenager and even an adult. And why shouldn't people take film or TV they enjoy seriously if they wish? That's why many of them are fans and not just casual viewers. If that happens to be their passion, then it's their right to put as much time and effort into it as they wish to. Just because you don't have any regard for "this old nonsense", doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. I have great regard for it as children's or, as you wish, family TV. Not much for obsessives who get their knickers in a twist when it aims for it's target audience or who believe in a time and space travelling alien with two hearts who regenerates but start screaming like foresaid children when he regenerates into a woman. It is nonsense it's what the word means. Enjoy it by all means but obsessing over men in tights movies is a bit silly once one is over say 13? Oh, it's not what I wish, it's what it's been described as by the BBC itself from time to time over the decades. As for its target audience, I once heard that described as "kids of all ages, from nine to ninety". And I simply assume that like any normal fan base of a long-running franchise, many of its viewers liked it the way it was. After all, that's why they were fans in the first place. Is there something wrong with that? Surely everyone is entitled to have a personal opinion, especially when it's about something they feel passionate about. What do "men in tights" films - whatever they might be - have to do with a long running science fiction franchise from the UK? And exactly why do you believe there must be an age limit on people who show an interest in such things? From what I've personally witnessed of the MCU phenomenon over the last decade, I'd have to say you're definitely in the minority with that opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 16:08:55 GMT
I think it's doing fine, and the "controversy" is a nontroversy. So the ratings plummeting The ratings have not plummeted. Mistake 1. I've watched every episode of Doctor Who produced since I was seven years old. I also own every episode ever made, sans the missing ones of course. Mistake 2. I don't parade Doctor Who around, mate. I'm a fan, not a producer. I just watch and enjoy it. Mistake 3. Cramming so many mistakes into such a short post... efficient of you. I'm impressed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 16:25:30 GMT
I have great regard for it as children's or, as you wish, family TV. Not much for obsessives who get their knickers in a twist when it aims for it's target audience or who believe in a time and space travelling alien with two hearts who regenerates but start screaming like foresaid children when he regenerates into a woman. It is nonsense it's what the word means. Enjoy it by all means but obsessing over men in tights movies is a bit silly once one is over say 13? Oh, it's not what I wish, it's what it's been described as by the BBC itself from time to time over the decades. As for its target audience, I once heard that described as "kids of all ages, from nine to ninety". Doctor Who has a long tradition of adding in "something for the dads", as they call it. Such as Peri and her outfits Or who could forget my favourite companion, Leela (No, not my favourite because she's a pretty girl in leather. My favourite because she's extremely primitive and completely uneducated... but also very smart, an excellent judge of character who frequently spots bad guys before the Doctor does, extremely tough and deadly, to the extent that the Doctor has to keep stopping her from just murdering the bad guy outright, and all around very, very capable.) It's absolutely reasonable to not like it when the show changes. And if people want to walk away from it because of the changes, that's fair. But the thing about Who is that is has always changed, and people have always complained. Every new Doctor that came along was the Death of Doctor Who in the minds of some fans. The show goes on regardless. Dislike the changes if you want to, or feel you must. But the changes aren't going to stop. If things get bad for the show, the only thing that will happen is that it will change again... and again... and again.
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