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Post by ant-mac on Jul 4, 2019 14:41:02 GMT
1. I expect there are some who don't like her because she is a female. In fact, I've read or heard comments that state that straight out. However, there are also others who dislike her for other reasons. Naturally. My contention is not that everybody who dislikes her in the role does so because vagina. My contention is that most people who dislike her in the role do so for that reason, whether they admit it or not. It's reflective of the age we live in, actually. Back in the day one could be openly racist or sexist. Over time that's come to be seen as unacceptable, and there is a social (and sometimes legal) price to pay for displaying such attitudes. So what we get now is very much cloaked bigotry. So you get a bigot who will claim "Oh, I'm just complaining about bad actors and bad stories"... but the bad actors and bad stories complained about are almost exclusively women, or works featuring women. Such people know they can't admit the motivations behind their hate for Jodie Whittaker or Daisy Ridley or whoever. So for instance, season 11 is a "ratings disaster" according to some. It began with 10.96 million viewers and dropped to 6.65 by the end of the season. But season 10 went from 6.68 million to 5.3. Season 9's ratings began at 6.68 and dropped to 5.3. Meaning that by the end of this cataclysmic ratings drop, Season 11's ratings were comparable to the opening high points of seasons 9 and 10. So where are all the posts and youtube videos by these same people crying about what a ratings disaster Capaldi was? Where are all the posts telling us what a shit Doctor Capaldi is, how he's failed to connect with the public? Can you point them out to me? No you cannot, because they never happened. Because it's not actually about the ratings. The ratings are an excuse that some people have seized on to criticise Jodie Whittaker. Are some people actually concerned about the ratings? Perhaps. But unless you can show me that person also making similar - and worse! - complaints about season 9 and 10, then that person's complaints about the ratings are a lie. No, this is absolutely nonsensical. Turning the Doctor or the Master into women isn't a slap to the people who created the characters, or to anybody else. The Doctor changes. Time Lords change. This has been baked into the show since the first regeneration. You asked if the showrunners think female characters can't stand on their own. Clearly they do not think that, companion or not. Romana is not the Doctor. She's not a version of the Doctor. She's her own person. Again, there is no 'have to'. They do what they think will work best. I understood what you said. I was saying that the complaint as stated is nonsensical. 1. Well, I for one prefer the Doctor as a male, although as I previously stated, I think the TV show should've ended at the end of the Doctor's "natural" lifespan. I also want Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Beatrix Kiddo and Alice Abernathy - among others - to remain female. I see nothing wrong with having personal preferences. Do you? And the ratings figures you yourself quoted indicate what a massive plunge series 11 suffered in comparison to series 9 or series 10. Have you tried looking up YouTubers' reactions to Steven Moffat? I thought Peter Capaldi's era - and to be honest the rest of New Who - was just one disappointment after another, but I never blamed the actors involved for that disappointment. I hold the show runners responsible. Perhaps other people do likewise? Various actors who have played the Doctor in the past have all received criticism at one point or another. Why should she be any different? I've been complaining about New Who ever since that fucking dustbin burped! But I doubt anyone's been paying attention. 2. No, but doing that while ignoring the fact that there are already female characters available and ready for use is a slap in the face to those who created those original characters. 3. I was referring to the male characters who've been transformed into females without any rational or logical reason. 4. She is a similar character with many similar motivations. And as stated, she has out-Doctored the Doctor more than once. She was and remains a female counterpart and every bit the equal to him. 5. For better or worse. 6. Well, I would be dishonest if I didn't mention I feel the same about much of what you've said. However, each to their own.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:54:49 GMT
1. Well, I for one prefer the Doctor as a male, although as I previously stated, I think the TV show should've ended at the end of the Doctor's "natural" lifespan. Why? And how even despite that, it's still higher rated than either of them. So I repeat - where are the complaints about Capaldi and what a terrible Doctor he was? I have looked, yes. And sure, there are criticisms. But there is nothing like the vitriol that there is now. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. Sorry, but that's just bullshit. No it isn't. Especially not when the people who created those characters are the ones who set out to make their characters changeable.
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 4, 2019 16:25:01 GMT
1. Well, I for one prefer the Doctor as a male, although as I previously stated, I think the TV show should've ended at the end of the Doctor's "natural" lifespan. Why? And how even despite that, it's still higher rated than either of them. So I repeat - where are the complaints about Capaldi and what a terrible Doctor he was? I have looked, yes. And sure, there are criticisms. But there is nothing like the vitriol that there is now. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. Sorry, but that's just bullshit. No it isn't. Especially not when the people who created those characters are the ones who set out to make their characters changeable. 1. I believe every story deserves a beginning, a middle and an end. This isn't necessarily an original concept or suggestion by me, but rather based upon a theory about the structure of storytelling that I believe was first put forward by Aristotle. I simply happen to agree with that principle. Of course, this doesn't mean that other stories cannot also be told within the same universe - or multiverse. just so long as those stories also have a beginning, a middle and an end. It could be the story of a Time Lady travelling through space and time in her time capsule righting wrongs, although first, I'd much rather see a story told from the Dalek perspective, but that's just me. 2. Have you considered the possibility that he wasn't? Or that he's simply a better actor than his replacement? It does happen, you know. I wonder what the internet would've said about Peter Davison replacing Tom Baker, or Colin Baker replacing Peter Davison, if it had existed the way it does now, but back in the 1980s? 3. I've seen vitriol towards Steven Moffat and Chris Chibnall as well as Peter Capaldi and Jodie Whittaker. I've also seen vitriol from Chris Chibnal and Jodie Whittaker. It's hypocrisy to ignore the fact that it's a two way street. 4. Simply because you disagree does not mean it's bullshit. To paraphrase William Shakespeare, "There are more opinions on the internet and real life, Graham, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." And to whom do you refer when you say the people who created the original characters set out to make them changeable? And in what way are these original characters meant to be changeable?
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 4, 2019 18:51:06 GMT
Nothing lasts forever. James Bond has run its course too.
Doctor Who has the novelty of changing the character reincarnation but even that gets old.
The show was always progressive in design though-since the Doctor-outside of the Amicus film-is a benevolent alien.
I believe the creator also arrived from Canada?
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 5, 2019 14:15:21 GMT
Nothing lasts forever. James Bond has run its course too. Doctor Who has the novelty of changing the character reincarnation but even that gets old. The show was always progressive in design though-since the Doctor-outside of the Amicus film-is a benevolent alien. I believe the creator also arrived from Canada? There was more than one creator. Sydney Newman: April 1, 1917 – October 30, 1997, was a Canadian film and television producer, who played a pioneering role in British television drama from the late 1950s to the late 1960s. CE Webber: 9 April 1909 – June 1969, was a British television writer and playwright. He is best remembered for his contribution to the creation of the famous science fiction series DOCTOR WHO while working as a staff writer for the BBC in the early 1960s. Donald Wilson: 11 September 1910 – 6 March 2002, was a British television writer and producer, known for his work on co-creating the TV series DOCTOR WHO.
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Post by Doctor Omega on Jul 6, 2019 14:41:46 GMT
TIME-OUT OBSERVATION: ANT-MAC: Well reasoned, intelligent argument backed up by thorough research. GRAHAM: Half-baked reactionary nonsense, based on the questionable assumption that it's all about, well... "Hating Vaginas" (or something? ), while holding Whittaker (and presumably all future female Doctors) up above - and immune to - criticism. No research or figures to back up claims; merely sulky sniping. CONCLUSION: If Graham has a coat, he should perhaps get it now.
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 6, 2019 17:25:31 GMT
TIME-OUT OBSERVATION: ANT-MAC: Well reasoned, intelligent argument backed up by thorough research. GRAHAM: Half-baked reactionary nonsense, based on the questionable assumption that it's all about, well... "Hating Vaginas" (or something? ), while holding Whittaker (and presumably all future female Doctors) up above - and immune to - criticism. No research or figures to back up claims; merely sulky sniping. CONCLUSION: If Graham has a coat, he should perhaps get it now. I think we're just two different people with two different approaches to the same objective. We both seem to support the same objective of diversity and variety, but just differ on how we'd like to see it achieved or implemented. Graham seems happy to see various existing fictional characters ret-conned from their originally established gender, race and so forth. Where as I'd sooner see the creation of a new fictional character or the further development of a more suitable previously existing character to meet any current story-telling goals. At least, that's how I perceive the matter. Of course, others may disagree.
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Post by Doctor Omega on Jul 17, 2019 12:38:08 GMT
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Post by Doctor Omega on Jul 17, 2019 12:48:10 GMT
CHIBNALL: It's just a stupid, rubbish awards thing, Jodie. Don't take it personally! JODIE: (Sobbing.) You bastard! (Cuts him off and throws her mobile in the nearest river.).
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Post by lordquesterjones on Jul 17, 2019 13:49:57 GMT
I thought all the Doctors were great.
But it's still tooooooo gay!
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 28, 2019 9:08:15 GMT
I thought all the Doctors were great. But it's still tooooooo gay! May I ask which definition of the word "gay" you're using on this occasion? I'm personally aware of three... Happy, homosexual and lame.
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Post by lordquesterjones on Jul 28, 2019 15:54:44 GMT
I thought all the Doctors were great. But it's still tooooooo gay! May I ask which definition of the word "gay" you're using on this occasion? I'm personally aware of three... Happy, homosexual and lame. All of them.
Except the happy one.
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Post by ant-mac on Jul 28, 2019 18:52:40 GMT
May I ask which definition of the word "gay" you're using on this occasion? I'm personally aware of three... Happy, homosexual and lame. All of them.
Except the happy one.
Thank you for the clarification.
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Post by Doctor Omega on Aug 7, 2019 14:59:11 GMT
The Thirteenth Doctor Gets Her Clothes | The Woman Who Fell To Earth | Doctor Who
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Post by darkpast on Mar 4, 2020 7:49:50 GMT
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Mar 4, 2020 22:36:49 GMT
I think the DOCTOR WHO franchise is dead - now that the powers that be have decided that the only way to keep the show "fresh" and "relevant" is to make the Doctor a woman. There was a time when I was interested in checking out the new series, but that time has passed. And welcome back to this forum, Doctor Omega! I bet you find yourself saying "I'm not sexist" a lot.
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Mar 4, 2020 22:38:19 GMT
I think it's doing fine, and the "controversy" is a nontroversy. So the ratings plummeting even with shit stupid white lib hypocrites tuning in for an episode or two so they can virtue signal about being woke is "doing fine"? That white lib logic is always so odd. You have no problem with the UK being OVERWHELMINGLY white while parading the multicultural Dr Who cast around as if it's typical when it's the exact opposite? Women hurt my feelings!!!!!!!!!
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Post by poelzig on Mar 5, 2020 1:11:59 GMT
So the ratings plummeting even with shit stupid white lib hypocrites tuning in for an episode or two so they can virtue signal about being woke is "doing fine"? That white lib logic is always so odd. You have no problem with the UK being OVERWHELMINGLY white while parading the multicultural Dr Who cast around as if it's typical when it's the exact opposite? Women hurt my feelings!!!!!!!!! Awww poor little creepy crusader. I'm sure no one here or anywhere is surprised women hurt your feelings. You reek of desperation which is bad enough. Add in your personality which is a weird combination of pathetic virtue signalling and impotent rage and it's obvious why most (all?) women reject you. Most women are more capable than you are so stop trying to be their crusader with your "heroic" posts and tweets and treat them like normal people. They will still reject you most likely but you will look less clueless.
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