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Post by hi224 on Sept 25, 2017 23:11:02 GMT
Anyone read that novel about the situation
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Post by MCDemuth on Sept 27, 2017 3:40:43 GMT
I didn't know there was a novel...
But, I have seen a couple documentary and read a couple of articles on the subject...
Personally, I believe Flight 19 is one of the most over-hyped stories to involve the Bermuda Triangle, and it seems strange that people cite this event before any other...
I have heard of some that are more strange and compelling (SEE BELOW)
Don't get me wrong, there are still some interesting mysteries concerning the event...
1.) Why did the flight leader try to get dismissed from flying that day? 2.) Why did his gauges malfunction? 3.) Why did he get confused about where he was, and why did he think they were flying over the Florida Keys, especially when they had not been flying long enough to get there? 4.) Why did he mis-indentify his aircraft? 5.) Why didn't one of the other pilots take command, when they should have know the flight leader had lost it?
And of course... Too add to all that...
6.) A flying boat sent out to search for them "disappeared" as well.
But, the reason why the Bermuda Triangle continues to remain a strong belief in our culture, is because planes and ships are here one minute and gone the next, with out warning. No bad weather, No distress calls, No survivors, and apparently...No wreckage.
Flight 19 defies all of this. We know their flight plan, and with a map, we can know for sure that they were not over the Florida Keys, we have radio transmission logs from them, and can plot their movements... Basically, there is no real mystery about what happened to them. No space warps, no UFOs. They ran out of fuel, and went down at sea. We just don't know the exact spot.
And the flying boat, was described as a flying gas can, which was known for fire problems. There are reports that a ship saw an explosion in the area, which is consistent with the history of that model plane. Again, No space warps, no UFOs... No mystery.
Flight 19 is really one of the more minor incidents that have been reported...
Here are a few that I have heard about that are really much more interesting.
A long time ago, I saw a Bermuda Triangle documentary that claimed, there was a plane flying over Florida, and a radio station on the ground pick up the radio transmissions from the plane. The Pilot radioed that he was over over the town where the radio station was. So the radio guy, went outside and saw the plane flying over head. The mystery is, the pilot also said, that the land looked undeveloped... This is untrue, as the town was like: Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. I can't remember how the tale ended, but this story implied that may the pilot was seeing into Florida's Past.
Another documentary, which I think I have on DVD, notes an airport received a call from an airplane reporting that he was 10 minutes out. Apparently this plane was "low" on fuel. 10 minutes later, the plane did not land and was "missing". No call, no wreckage, nothing. 11 HOURS after this plane was suppose to have been be out of fuel, the tower received a radio call from the pilot, saying he was about 1 minute out, and was preparing to land. The plane didn't land. It went "missing", again. No call, no wreckage, nothing. It was never heard from again.
Then there is the famous tale about the pilot flying in the (1970s?), who encountered electronic fog... and flew through a strange tunnel in the clouds. A trip that should have taken, I think an hour and a half, only took one hour. He arrived 30 Minutes before he was due. The plane just could not have done that on it's own. Either it got one hell of a tail wind, or that tunnel altered space-time. I am sure most skeptics would cite the tail wind, but still... That would have to have been some fast moving wind. Something similar to what "Global 33" initially encountered in the Twilight Zone episode: "The Odyssey Of Flight 33".
None of these have any logical explanation based on how we know things are supposed to work in our world today... You would think, these would get more attention... But no, Flight 19 is really the only thing that most people talk about... and it is simply not that mysterious.
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Post by howardschumann on Oct 10, 2017 23:53:22 GMT
Flight 19 defies all of this. We know their flight plan, and with a map, we can know for sure that they were not over the Florida Keys, we have radio transmission logs from them, and can plot their movements... Basically, there is no real mystery about what happened to them. No space warps, no UFOs. They ran out of fuel, and went down at sea. We just don't know the exact spot. And the flying boat, was described as a flying gas can, which was known for fire problems. There are reports that a ship saw an explosion in the area, which is consistent with the history of that model plane. Again, No space warps, no UFOs... No mystery. Where is the evidence that Flight 19 ran out of fuel? Is that your good idea? No proof that the other plane caught on fire. In neither case was there any wreckage found. Is this straight out of your debunker's manual?
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Post by MCDemuth on Oct 11, 2017 0:42:32 GMT
we have radio transmission logs from themThere are reports that a ship saw an explosion in the area Where is the evidence that Flight 19 ran out of fuel? Is that your good idea? No proof that the other plane caught on fire. In neither case was there any wreckage found. Is this straight out of your debunker's manual? Why don't you learn to READ, and then you will understand that it is NOT "MY GOOD IDEA" or from MY "DEBUNKER's MANUAL"! OK, I will put forth, that we don't know, 100% for sure, that Flight 19 ran out of fuel and crashed. And we don't know, 100% for sure, that the PBM flying boat is related to the explosion that was seen... But, there is no reason to believe that the the PBM flying boat "Mysteriously" disappeared. Unless Aliens blew it up, and there is no indications whatsoever that this is even a possibility. And as for flight 19. They had been flying for hours, and only has so much fuel on board. Do the math if you want, but they radioed that they were running out of fuel, probably at the expected time. Unless aliens scooped them up while they were running on fumes, there can only be one logical event that could have happened just minutes later. They ran out of fuel and crashed. The ocean is huge, and the sea bed is quite unexplored... Just because there wasn't wreckage found, doesn't mean there was anything paranormal going on, especially with the well document evidence that didn't point to an unearthly end.
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Post by howardschumann on Oct 11, 2017 1:58:45 GMT
Where is the evidence that Flight 19 ran out of fuel? Is that your good idea? No proof that the other plane caught on fire. In neither case was there any wreckage found. Is this straight out of your debunker's manual? Why don't you learn to READ, and then you will understand that it is NOT "MY GOOD IDEA" or from MY "DEBUNKER's MANUAL"!Ok. It's a reasonable assumption but still just an assumption. Why is that people are so frightened at the prospect that some things are just a "mystery?" Science has drummed into our head that everything has to have a "reasonable" explanation. Not so. The true nature of UFOs has never been explained.
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Post by howardschumann on Oct 11, 2017 2:03:37 GMT
Flight 19 defies all of this. We know their flight plan, and with a map, we can know for sure that they were not over the Florida Keys, we have radio transmission logs from them, and can plot their movements... Basically, there is no real mystery about what happened to them. No space warps, no UFOs. They ran out of fuel, and went down at sea. We just don't know the exact spot. And the flying boat, was described as a flying gas can, which was known for fire problems. There are reports that a ship saw an explosion in the area, which is consistent with the history of that model plane. Again, No space warps, no UFOs... No mystery. Where is the evidence that Flight 19 ran out of fuel? Is that your good idea? No proof that the other plane caught on fire. In neither case was there any wreckage found. Is this straight out of your debunker's manual? Ok. It's a reasonable assumption but it is still an assumption. Why are people so afraid to admit that some things are mysteries. Science has tried to convince us that everything has a reasonable explanation. Not so. Somethings in life are mysteries. The true nature of UFOs has never been explained, not to mention the nature of reality itself.
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Post by MCDemuth on Oct 11, 2017 2:29:59 GMT
Why is that people are so frightened at the prospect that some things are just a "mystery?" Science has drummed into our head that everything has to have a "reasonable" explanation. Not so. The true nature of UFOs has never been explained. Wow. I can't believe that you are arguing with ME... Compared to many on these boards, I am VERY open minded to the possibility of Aliens & UFOs (Especially in Ancient Times), God & the Paranormal, and creatures like Bigfoot. In Fact, I have spent many hours arguing with Atheists and Non-Believers over these things, and have been called an "idiot", "stupid", "moron", ETC, for believing in "Nonsense"... and I don't even believe in them 100%... I do believe there is more going on with Bermuda Triangle, than just storms at sea... In fact, historical documentation has shown, that many planes and ship vanish in the region on clearly sunny days... I have even provided some examples in an earlier post of some strange events that have happened in the Bermuda Triangle, which can't be easily explained, which does leaving me scratching my head and wondering what is really going on... UFOs? Yep, I do believe that some people have seen strange craft, which were not "Helicopters"... Not sure how to explain them, So it is unreasonable to rule out aliens. But I do seek more concrete proof to be certain! However, when it comes to "Flight 19", the only thing I will agree that is unexplained is how the day began. Compasses spinning, Taylor being confused... ETC. But this happens all the time in every other case. But what when you take a good look at what happened at the end... The maps, their flight plan, their radio transmissions, and the timeline of when all these things happened... It is NOT really a "mystery" as to what happened to them in their final moments... As I said, Flight 19 is most overblown story involving the Bermuda Triangle, because it really is the least "Mysterious".
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Post by howardschumann on Oct 11, 2017 3:01:02 GMT
Why is that people are so frightened at the prospect that some things are just a "mystery?" Science has drummed into our head that everything has to have a "reasonable" explanation. Not so. The true nature of UFOs has never been explained. Wow. I can't believe that you are arguing with ME... Compared to many on these boards, I am VERY open minded to the possibility of Aliens & UFOs (Especially in Ancient Times), God & the Paranormal, and creatures like Bigfoot. In Fact, I have spent many hours arguing with Atheists and Non-Believers over these things, and have been called an "idiot", "stupid", "moron", ETC, for believing in "Nonsense"... and I don't even believe in them 100%... I do believe there is more going on with Bermuda Triangle, than just storms at sea... In fact, historical documentation has shown, that many planes and ship vanish in the region on clearly sunny days... I have even provided some examples in an earlier post of some strange events that have happened in the Bermuda Triangle, which can't be easily explained, which does leaving me scratching my head and wondering what is really going on... UFOs? Yep, I do believe that some people have seen strange craft, which were not "Helicopters"... Not sure how to explain them, So it is unreasonable to rule out aliens. But I do seek more concrete proof to be certain! However, when it comes to "Flight 19", the only thing I will agree that is unexplained is how the day began. Compasses spinning, Taylor being confused... ETC. But this happens all the time in every other case. But what when you take a good look at what happened at the end... The maps, their flight plan, their radio transmissions, and the timeline of when all these things happened... It is NOT really a "mystery" as to what happened to them in their final moments... As I said, Flight 19 is most overblown story involving the Bermuda Triangle, because it really is the least "Mysterious". Okay. Thanks for your point of view. It makes sense.
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Post by hi224 on Oct 11, 2017 3:32:08 GMT
Cant we all get slong here.
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Post by chalk2 on Oct 11, 2017 3:36:09 GMT
Vacationing in Bermuda anyone. lol.
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Post by MCDemuth on Oct 11, 2017 3:45:38 GMT
Cant we all get slong here. What's a "slong"? LOL! Seriously Though, I Usually try to get along with others, or just ignore them when that can't be possible... But what is one supposed to do, when you say you believe in Aliens, and someone starts arguing with you and tells you, to believe in Aliens...
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 29, 2018 3:28:56 GMT
Hey hi224 ... Here's and additional mystery to the "Flight 19" story that you might not have heard about... Or could their even be another mystery concerning Flight 19? Did you notice this information from the article? Maybe I am trying to interpret a conspiracy here, but... That information does make me wonder, Why, The NAVY doesn't want to confirm that (a crew member survived and) one of the planes from Flight 19 has been found... OK, so maybe that plane was not from Flight 19... But then why can't the NAVY, just say... " It's not from Flight 19... But we do know what the deal is with this plane, and that it was involved in a top secret mission, and so we can't tell you anything more about it." There are so many people that would accept no explanations, for TOP SECRET & NATIONAL SECURITY reasons, if the military would just say that... But they DON'T... They just leave it all a big mystery... I think that just creates more problems. Interestingly, if Sgt. George Paonessa did survive, and did send that telegram from the the Naval Air Station in Jacksonville... One has to wonder what happened to him, and why was the military is covering it all up... Maybe "Flight 19" did encounter UFOs after all... LOL! Anyway, I found this to be an interesting new chapter to "Flight 19'"s story... I was trying to find out about what became of the Avenger Wreck that Jon Myhre recovered from the Ocean Bottom in the early 1990s... When I read about this new twist. Sadly, from what I can tell, Neither of the wreck identities have been confirmed or denied conclusively...
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 29, 2018 4:21:08 GMT
Anyway, I found this to be an interesting new chapter to "Flight 19'"s story... I was trying to find out about what became of the Avenger Wreck that Jon Myhre recovered from the Ocean Bottom in (1989)... When I read about this new twist. Sadly, from what I can tell, Neither of the wreck identities have been confirmed or denied conclusively... Well... for those of us that watched the "Unsolved Mysteries" episode in the early 1990s that featured the raising of the wreck... Now we know that the wreckage, did not come from "Flight 19". Mystery Solved... Or Has It? It is very interesting... That this plane, just happened to be where Jon Myhre thought one of the Flight 19 planes had crashed...
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Post by MCDemuth on Jan 29, 2018 5:13:53 GMT
Well... for those of us that watched the "Unsolved Mysteries" episode in the early 1990s that featured the raising of the wreck... Now we know that the wreckage, did not come from "Flight 19". Mystery Solved... Or Has It? It is very interesting... That this plane, just happened to be where Jon Myhre thought one of the Flight 19 planes had crashed... OK, things are getting weirder... During that "Unsolved Mysteries" episode, this was discussed: At the time, it was implied, that ALL FIVE AVENGERS did not belong to "FLIGHT 19" I just now learned of this new information... Are we so sure that there were FIVE separate accidents, at this same spot? What if it were TWO...? So he thinks FOUR of those FIVE planes were part of "Flight 19"... Is it possible?"Flight 19" was the designation of a group of FIVE Grumman TBM Avenger torpedo bombers... FIVE - FOUR = ONE... FOUR crashed in the Ocean. ONE crashed near Sebastian, FL. YES!... So, have all FIVE of the TBM Avengers that were part of "Flight 19" actually been found in two different crash locations? Only time will tell... But one has to wonder... If the military knows that ALL of the planes from "Flight 19" has been found... which according to the statement made by researchers, it seems that it do... Why are they so determined to keep it all a secret? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've always thought the case of "Flight 19", was one of the least mysterious events that occurred in the Bermuda Triangle. When you examine the Maps, the Flight Plan, and review the radio transcripts... It isn't really any mystery what happened to them, after they got lost... They made all of their decision based on believing that they were flying over the Florida Keys, which they were not... We just don't know how or why they got disoriented... But they are not the only ones to have their compasses malfunction. Sure you have the Search Plane that also "disappeared" while searching for "Flight 19", which added more weight to the mystery... But reported indicated that the plane may have exploded, which wasn't very unlikely, given that fact that those planes were called "Flying Gas Cans" So all in all, nothing really mysterious here. We would think that the Military would want to close this case once and for all. And there doesn't seem to be any reason why they wouldn't want to do so... So why don't they? Given the mysterious reputation of this case, involving the "Bermuda Triangle"... Is the Government is trying to hide something? As I jokingly said in a previous post... One has to wonder if "Flight 19" really did have an encounter with UFOs... Anyway... Just one more thing... That plane, just happened to be where Jon Myhre thought one of the Flight 19 planes had crashed... Is it really, a coincidence... that ( what seems like) "100s" of Grumman TBM Avenger Torpedo Bombers, that were flying all around the Bermuda Triangle... were all crashing... and all in the exact same places? I think someone should do a study on that.
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Father Jack
Junior Member
@arsebiscuits
Posts: 2,407
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Post by Father Jack on Jan 29, 2018 7:11:25 GMT
Isn't the whole Bermuda Triangle myth nonsense?
The area has the same amount of lost vessels as expected for the amount of traffic over time.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jan 29, 2018 9:26:20 GMT
How about the theory that they crashed in the Okefenokee Swamp along the Georgia–Florida line?
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