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Post by Jedan Archer on Oct 16, 2017 12:54:11 GMT
No that is a straw man.
Ancient story: artistic progress and interpretation keep old arts alive. Applies to entertainment too, Batman & Joker are relevant for decades bc they changed dramatically. Iron Man & Co will sink to C-grade popularity again when the actors leave, unless the MCU reinvents itselves.
But guys like you will see to it that the MCU dies with them. Really, every franchise gets the fans it deserves.
Solid point, but those DC characters have existed in film for decades. With any luck we'll see reinventions of Marvel characters similar to what we've seen with Batman and Joker. Agreed, or what we've seen with the X-Men who were reinterpreted with new actors and new tone, and it worked. We do not even have to bring up the radical deconstruction example of Logan.
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Post by charzhino on Oct 16, 2017 13:03:32 GMT
Continuity is overrated and ultimately destroys the spectacle of the stand alone film. Atleast DCEU have realised this and are adjusting. Having so many dead rubber MCU movies that are simply set ups for the next maybe financially profitable but sorely lacking in creative freedom.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 15:56:27 GMT
No, what the writer of that comment is saying is that MCU Dictator Kevin Feige thinks that giving directors creative freedom would result in continuity errors so Feige runs MCU like a Dictator and doesn't give their directors any creative freedom at all, but in the end Feige's dictatorship style still failed to prevent continuity errors as MCU's timeline is seriously broken and MCU now has to create a new timeline that retconns most of the past movies. Then you clearly don't know what a film producer does. They keep the production in check which also means continiuity. Directors like James Gunn and Taika Waititi are the directors and are in charged creativitely, Feige is in charged financially and logically. And the writer of the article is saying that despite Feige being a Dictator at MCU and not giving their Directors any creative freedom at all, MCU's continuity is still broken. So in the end, Feige's dictatorship style didn't work any better than Fox giving the X-Men directors creative freedom because MCU's timeline is still seriously broken and MCU is now scrambling to come up with a new timeline that will retconn most of their previous movies. |
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Oct 16, 2017 16:03:09 GMT
Then you clearly don't know what a film producer does. They keep the production in check which also means continiuity. Directors like James Gunn and Taika Waititi are the directors and are in charged creativitely, Feige is in charged financially and logically. And the writer of the article is saying that despite Feige being a Dictator at MCU and not giving their Directors any creative freedom at all, MCU's continuity is still broken. So in the end, Feige's dictatorship style didn't work any better than Fox giving the X-Men directors creative freedom because MCU's timeline is still seriously broken and MCU is now scrambling to come up with a new timeline that will retconn most of their previous movies. I just explained what Kevin Feige does for the MCU, and you still call him a dictator. He's just doing his job. If that's the case, all producers of the PGA are dictators. It's like calling your boss a dictator.  |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 16:06:13 GMT
This isn't new an argument but was discussed in all arts for centuries, and a general consensus amongst the more sophisticated cinephiles and art lovers. I take one Mozart over a dozen Salieris. I take one masterpiece over a dozen mediocrities. I take artistic expression over stale paint-by-numbers efforts. The Logan and MCU is just the B-Movie example of that. Losing the pseudo-dogmatic straight jacket and allowing for artistic expression allowed the filmmakers in this case to create a out of the box masterwork instead of another mediocrity. I do not care if Logan is a parallel elseworld universe, or in-universe, canon or non-canon, in continuity or not - these are artificial not artistic qualifications. That's true. MCU fans think that "it's all connected" is important, but "it's all connected" is really unimportant. Most people that watched Logan or Wonder Woman didn't care if or how those movies connected to the X-Men universe or to the DCEU. They only cared that they paid money to watch that movie and not to watch an ad for the next movie or watch a few 15-second post-credit clips that have nothing to do with the movie. "It's all connected" means nothing if the movies are awful, like MCU movies are. And as for continuity, that elements is showing several severe cracks in MCU and most other universes anyway, cracks have a tendency to become worse untill breaking. Yep, that's the problem with "It's all connected." Sooner or later, it's going to cause continuity errors and timeline screw-ups. And that's exactly what's happened to MCU now. MCU made "It's all connected" their biggest selling point. So now they're screwed because "It's all connected" has resulted in massive continuity errors and timeline screw-ups within MCU and the only way they can fix it now is to come up with a new timeline that retconns most of its previous movies. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 16:07:58 GMT
Just make a good film. I don't care what the continuity relationship of it is to other films. Any relationship can work. Agreed. MCU fans think that "it's all connected" is important, but "it's all connected" is really unimportant. Most people that watched Logan or Wonder Woman didn't care if or how those movies connected to the X-Men universe or to the DCEU. They only cared that they paid money to watch that movie and not to watch an ad for the next movie or watch a few 15-second post-credit clips that have nothing to do with the movie. "It's all connected" means nothing if the movies are awful, like MCU movies are. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 16:20:16 GMT
No that is a straw man.
Ancient story: artistic progress and interpretation keep old arts alive. Applies to entertainment too, Batman & Joker are relevant for decades bc they changed dramatically. Iron Man & Co will sink to C-grade popularity again when the actors leave, unless the MCU reinvents itselves.
But guys like you will see to it that the MCU dies with them. Really, every franchise gets the fans it deserves.
Solid point, but those DC characters have existed in film for decades. With any luck we'll see reinventions of Marvel characters similar to what we've seen with Batman and Joker. That's not going to happen as long as MCU Dictator Kevin Feige refuses to give Directors any creative freedom and fires every Director who has a new idea. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 16:21:22 GMT
Continuity is overrated and ultimately destroys the spectacle of the stand alone film. Atleast DCEU have realised this and are adjusting. Having so many dead rubber MCU movies that are simply set ups for the next maybe financially profitable but sorely lacking in creative freedom. Agreed. MCU fans think that "it's all connected" is important, but "it's all connected" is really unimportant. Most people that watched Logan or Wonder Woman didn't care if or how those movies connected to the X-Men universe or to the DCEU. They only cared that they paid money to watch that movie and not to watch an ad for the next movie or watch a few 15-second post-credit clips that have nothing to do with the movie. "It's all connected" means nothing if the movies are awful, like MCU movies are. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 16, 2017 16:34:08 GMT
And the writer of the article is saying that despite Feige being a Dictator at MCU and not giving their Directors any creative freedom at all, MCU's continuity is still broken. So in the end, Feige's dictatorship style didn't work any better than Fox giving the X-Men directors creative freedom because MCU's timeline is still seriously broken and MCU is now scrambling to come up with a new timeline that will retconn most of their previous movies. I just explained what Kevin Feige does for the MCU, and you still call him a dictator. He's just doing his job. If that's the case, all producers of the PGA are dictators. A Dictator is someone who is against giving people freedom. So that would be MCU Dictator Kevin Feige, who is against giving Directors creative freedom. Not all producers of the PGA are like that. It's like calling your boss a dictator. My current and last couple of bosses have been cool. But I've had over 20 bosses in the past 24 years and 1 of my previous bosses, I would categorize her as a "slave driver". She basically thought that the company owned you and you were there to serve the company 24 x 7. |
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Oct 16, 2017 16:38:04 GMT
I just explained what Kevin Feige does for the MCU, and you still call him a dictator. He's just doing his job. If that's the case, all producers of the PGA are dictators. A Dictator is someone who is against giving people freedom. So that would be MCU Dictator Kevin Feige, who is against giving Directors creative freedom. Not all producers of the PGA are like that. If that's the case, no director would want to work for Marvel Studios, and here we have prestige directors like Taika Waititi and Ryan Coogler directing upcoming Marvel movies. They're willing to work with Feige, even if that does mean they lose some of their creative freedom. |
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Oct 16, 2017 16:57:56 GMT
I just explained what Kevin Feige does for the MCU, and you still call him a dictator. He's just doing his job. If that's the case, all producers of the PGA are dictators. A Dictator is someone who is against giving people freedom. So that would be MCU Dictator Kevin Feige, who is against giving Directors creative freedom. Not all producers of the PGA are like that. It's like calling your boss a dictator. My current and last couple of bosses have been cool. But I've had over 20 bosses in the past 24 years and 1 of my previous bosses, I would categorize her as a "slave driver". She basically thought that the company owned you and you were there to serve the company 24 x 7. You know dictator is a wrong and unfair assessment of him. As usual, it's just your pathetic way of ranting against the MCU. But he's running one of the most successful franchise right now that many studios are investing in, a lot, and it's his vision as well. So its his job to find the right directors and producers that will create the vision he wants. He's not going to give some director a million dollars and tell them to have a go at it and do what they want. He trying to keep every film as consistent as possible. That's how movie making business works, especially with big franchises and those who are running it. It's the same thing with Star Wars. The reason why the directors got fired is because they're basically working on someone else turf with millions of their dollars. They weren't paid to make their own film. If you even had a half of brain, you'd understand. But lately though, especially with Thor 3 and Black Panther, he has been giving more creative freedom for them. He has finally found the right balance of enforcing his vision while letting the director put his own stamp on it without completely taking over Feige's vision |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 16, 2017 17:06:29 GMT
I just explained what Kevin Feige does for the MCU, and you still call him a dictator. He's just doing his job. If that's the case, all producers of the PGA are dictators. A Dictator is someone who is against giving people freedom. So that would be MCU Dictator Kevin Feige, who is against giving Directors creative freedom. Not all producers of the PGA are like that. It's like calling your boss a dictator. My current and last couple of bosses have been cool. But I've had over 20 bosses in the past 24 years and 1 of my previous bosses, I would categorize her as a "slave driver". She basically thought that the company owned you and you were there to serve the company 24 x 7. If Kevin Feige is against giving directors creative freedom then he wouldn't have instructed James Gunn to "make a pure James Gunn film" when he was assigned as director of Guardians of the Galaxy. You once again illustrate that you don't know what goes on in the industry very well. Typically when a director is interviewed for the role of director of a film in a franchise they meet with the producer(s) and if their vision matches up well with them they most likely will get the job. If there are no production troubles, and dailies show that the film is turning out very good then the producer has no need to step in, if there are troubles and there are some iffy areas that are in need of fixing then they have to step in. Remember, this has to be a genuine crowd pleaser, if it were to fail to meet that expectation it may struggle at the box office and lose the company money, not too mention if the end result is less than desired it can damage the overall franchise that it rests in. And before you bring up Iron Fist or Inhumans Feige has no role to play in Marvel's television division and didn't make the call to have those shows produced, he never did any interviews or other press for them and nobody involved in either production has said anything of him. Feige's just involved in the movie division. Also, every job is different, and since you don't state what profession you currently hold or have held we can assume it is certainly not media related. For all we know you probably flip burgers at McDonalds or work at a convenient store. Neither job is anywhere close to film or television production, just an FYI. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 16, 2017 17:14:36 GMT
Continuity is overrated and ultimately destroys the spectacle of the stand alone film. Atleast DCEU have realised this and are adjusting. Having so many dead rubber MCU movies that are simply set ups for the next maybe financially profitable but sorely lacking in creative freedom. Agreed. MCU fans think that "it's all connected" is important, but "it's all connected" is really unimportant. Most people that watched Logan or Wonder Woman didn't care if or how those movies connected to the X-Men universe or to the DCEU. They only cared that they paid money to watch that movie and not to watch an ad for the next movie or watch a few 15-second post-credit clips that have nothing to do with the movie. "It's all connected" means nothing if the movies are awful, like MCU movies are. Because Logan was set further in the future than any prior X-Men film people didn't have to get too wrapped up the other X-Men films because it was neither here nor there. Despite this there ARE connections between it and prior installments and many are speculating later X-Men related media will tie into it in some way shape or fashion. People were introduced to Wonder Woman on film with last year's Batman v Superman, which definitely wasn't very subtle in how they used her in its promotional material. The photograph Bruce finds is a huge part of her own movie. Try again. |
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Post by scabab on Oct 16, 2017 18:40:25 GMT
Yeah let's get back on topic, it only takes one little comment to kick things off.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 16, 2017 20:32:47 GMT
Yes, they have, dramatically so. They haven't. If anything it's cyclical. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 16, 2017 20:33:18 GMT
Continuity is overrated and ultimately destroys the spectacle of the stand alone film. Spoken like a true reactionary. I suppose you think we should go back to reading by candlelight? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 16, 2017 20:34:23 GMT
Solid point, but those DC characters have existed in film for decades. With any luck we'll see reinventions of Marvel characters similar to what we've seen with Batman and Joker. Agreed, or what we've seen with the X-Men who were reinterpreted with new actors and new tone, and it worked. We do not even have to bring up the radical deconstruction example of Logan.
Logan didn't deconstruct anything, it was wholly predictable. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 20:35:10 GMT
Continuity is overrated and ultimately destroys the spectacle of the stand alone film. Spoken like a true reactionary. Its only wrong if the MCU does it. If the FoX-Men films and DCEU films could do it worth a damn, they'd be singing praises to the continuity gods. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 17, 2017 2:26:03 GMT
Yes, they have, dramatically so. They haven't. If anything it's cyclical. No, Star Trek has changed dramatically since TOS. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 17, 2017 9:52:32 GMT
They haven't. If anything it's cyclical. N, Star Trek has changed dramatically since TOS. It hasn't , if anything it's been cyclical. They try to change it and it goes back after a little while. |
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