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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 16:45:35 GMT
Have about 20 minutes left of MbD and I have to say... Clue. MbD I'd painful with sporadic snippets of 'comedy'. ...which amuses me because, while I like Clue more than you like MbD, I'd say Clue is the one with sporadic snippets of comedy! I suppose it just goes to show how subjective comedy really is.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 16:53:52 GMT
Larcen26 previously wrote: ...which interests me for several reasons, not the least of which is that an acquaintance of mine, a detective-story fan, also sees it this way. While I agree that it's far more of a legitimate story, with an ending, than Murder by Death, which gets lost in plot threads and is uncertain of its parody at the end (I still find it funnier, though), it doesn't really have any clues, does it? (If it does, apologies; I was looking for them the last time I saw the picture and certainly couldn't see any.) I mean, compare that to The Simpsons' mystery parody, "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" which has clues aplenty and deeply understands the murder-mystery format. Compared to that, Clue and Murder by Death both know the words but not the music, the trappings of a murder-mystery but not its essence (I think).
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 16:55:23 GMT
Have about 20 minutes left of MbD and I have to say... Clue. MbD I'd painful with sporadic snippets of 'comedy'. ...which amuses me because, while I like Clue more than you like MbD, I'd say Clue is the one with sporadic snippets of comedy! I suppose it just goes to show how subjective comedy really is. Yeah. And I was more upset with it being so painful for me to watch. You all raved about it. Seeing all these A-listers in MbD I was expecting it to be funnier and of higher quality humor.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 16:57:11 GMT
deembastilleWell, as said, comedy is a subjective thing. I, for one, find Murder by Death hilarious and Clue not very funny. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things.
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 17:01:55 GMT
Yeah. Just thinking... clue was based on the Board Game of that name. I suppose that gives it sort of a Bewitched and Beverly Hillbilly's pass.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 16, 2017 17:05:38 GMT
Larcen26 previously wrote: ...which interests me for several reasons, not the least of which is that an acquaintance of mine, a detective-story fan, also sees it this way. While I agree that it's far more of a legitimate story, with an ending, than Murder by Death, which gets lost in plot threads and is uncertain of its parody at the end (I still find it funnier, though), it doesn't really have any clues, does it? (If it does, apologies; I was looking for them the last time I saw the picture and certainly couldn't see any.) I mean, compare that to The Simpsons' mystery parody, "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" which has clues aplenty and deeply understands the murder-mystery format. Compared to that, Clue and Murder by Death both know the words but not the tune, the trappings of murder-mysteries with their essence (I think). That's true. I don't think there are a lot of "I should have seen that coming" moments in Clue, primarily because the narrative has to fit multiple different endings equally. But all of the different endings are equally feasible and nothing in one contradicts any of the others. There ARE clues, the monkey brains tying Peacock to the cook being the most obvious example, and the cop on the phone... Compared to Murder by Death, which has no clues that mean anything because it's not meant to. If I had to be fancy and come up with some sort of thesis statement I would say: Clue is a comedy within a mystery and Murder by Death is a parody of mystery. Clue is like Shaun of the Dead...an effective Comedy AND an effective Zombie movie that plays with the tropes of the genre. Murder By Death is like Airplane...a send up of the genre that elevates the tropes to a comedic degree.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 17:26:16 GMT
Larcen26Yes, indeed, Mrs. Peacock and the monkey brains--I remember that. That does indeed count as a clue, even if only a minor one. But what's the clue with the cop on the phone (in spoilers!)? I remember that scene, but I can't remember a clue there.
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 17:47:04 GMT
Nalkarj... He as taking bribes from Scarlet and mustard was a client of Scarlet's. He saw both Scarlet and mustard at the party and Scarlet's business.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 17:49:53 GMT
deembastilleYes, but is that a clue, or simply something revealed at the end?
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 16, 2017 18:29:45 GMT
Larcen26 Yes, indeed, Mrs. Peacock and the monkey brains--I remember that. That does indeed count as a clue, even if only a minor one. But what's the clue with the cop on the phone (in spoilers!)? I remember that scene, but I can't remember a clue there. He says something like "I'm in this weird mansion, but weirder is that one if them is my old boss..." then the lead pipe hangs up the phone and hits him...
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 18:40:41 GMT
OK, got it. Righto, I'll concede the point: there are clues in Clue, just (as you said, Larcen26 ) not very many or of much substance. Thanks!
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 19:59:39 GMT
Larcen26 Yes, indeed, Mrs. Peacock and the monkey brains--I remember that. That does indeed count as a clue, even if only a minor one. But what's the clue with the cop on the phone (in spoilers!)? I remember that scene, but I can't remember a clue there. He says something like "I'm in this weird mansion, but weirder is that one if them is my old boss..." then the lead pipe hangs up the phone and hits him... NO. That was the motorist. He was mustard's driver during the war and knew mustard stole fighter plane radios and sold them on the black market.
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 20:00:51 GMT
OK, got it. Righto, I'll concede the point: there are clues in Clue, just (as you said, Larcen26 ) not very many or of much substance. Thanks! And larcen still got it wrong.
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 20:05:24 GMT
deembastilleYes, but is that a clue, or simply something revealed at the end? It is a clue and it was said near the end but only we and the dude on the other end of the phone heard it. The killer didn't need to hear it because that info is what got him killed. Scarlet also filled in some blanks when they were in the study confessing. Salz, did you watch the movie?
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 16, 2017 20:58:21 GMT
OK, got it. Righto, I'll concede the point: there are clues in Clue, just (as you said, Larcen26 ) not very many or of much substance. Thanks! And larcen still got it wrong. OK...no need to relish in it... I haven't seen it in a while... The Motorist has that line... The cop says "Don't I know you" to Yvette...
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Post by deembastille on Nov 16, 2017 21:24:43 GMT
And larcen still got it wrong. OK...no need to relish in it... I haven't seen it in a while... The Motorist has that line... The cop says "Don't I know you" to Yvette... And Yvette worked for Scarlet!
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 16, 2017 21:35:51 GMT
OK...no need to relish in it... I haven't seen it in a while... The Motorist has that line... The cop says "Don't I know you" to Yvette... And Yvette worked for Scarlet! Unless I am mistaken, that was only in the Scarlett ending.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 21:36:03 GMT
Salz, did you watch the movie? Gee, deembastille, that's rather rude. Of course I've watched the movie. Twice. And you know that, too. Unless you think I'm lying about it for some reason known only to you? It is not, and has never been, a favorite of mine. I think it's OK, but nothing particularly special, and I have trouble understanding why a cult following has risen up around it. That's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Certainly not a criticism of anyone for liking it more than I do. Comedy, of all things, is so utterly subjective. I didn't remember clues in it, so I asked, and there are. I was wrong--albeit not substantially, I would argue, for those clues aren't necessary for a final solution (i.e., what I, based on the writings of Scott Ratner, Barry Ergang, Curtis Evans, and others, have called "sudden retrospective illumination," or "the Homer Simpson effect," which seems the sine qua non of mysteries). I don't have the movie in front of me to check every plot detail, which is--again-- why I asked. And--gee whiz--of all movies, this is not the one to expect others to remember even basic concepts of the final solution(s), let alone specific details. With all that breathless running-around they do? With three different, confusing solutions? Nah. You may argue with me all you want about what you see as the movie's virtues, some of which I also see and some of which I do not, but I'm not going to tolerate rudeness.
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Post by Nalkarj on Nov 16, 2017 21:37:23 GMT
Unless I am mistaken, that was only in the Scarlett ending. And the fact that we're uncertain about this goes to demonstrate that this movie, of all movies, breeds uncertainty with three different and contradictory endings/solutions.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 16, 2017 21:44:47 GMT
Unless I am mistaken, that was only in the Scarlett ending. And the fact that we're uncertain about this goes to demonstrate that this movie, of all movies, breeds uncertainty with three different and contradictory endings/solutions. You seem to consider that a negative... I find it brilliant that they set up a story with multiple possible endings where absolutely nothing in the film contradicts those three options.
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