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Post by DSDSquared on Oct 17, 2017 18:04:47 GMT
I am not talking about quality or writing or anything. I am simply talking about structure of the releases. We can most agree that BvS was a disaster. One of the problems was that they tried to copy the MCU with the extended universe all in one movie and it failed. If they did this, I feel that they would have been far more successful:
Man of Steel Solo Batman film of high quality Wonder Woman Justice League
It is a simply change, but a very important one. Neither Man of Steel nor Wonder Woman had to shoe horn a bunch of other characters in. Batman could have done the same. Imagine a high quality Batman solo film in the vein of the warehouse fight in BvS? Think about how much more excited we would be over the team up? That was one of the main reasons Marvel became so huge. They introduced all of these characters slowly and when we finally got to see them all together it was an event.
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Post by primeone on Oct 17, 2017 18:33:31 GMT
What they have up until JL is fine. The writing was the problem, but I would’ve done it like this:
Man of Steel Batman v Superman The Dawn of Justice Suicide Squad Wonder Woman Justice League
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Oct 17, 2017 19:01:48 GMT
No thank you, that would be anticlimactic. Your thesis is a form over substance argument, but it there is clearly another factor: People want fresh faces and heroes. This is the secret ingredient in times of existing demand paired with galloping superhero fatigue. When they appear is only of lesser concern.
I am more interested in WW, Flash, Aqua and Black Cyborg origin stories. I have seen enough Batman solo origin films for a life, and nobody will top Nolan. This the reason why there is no Batman solo film yet. Supes was OK because his origin film is from the 70s.
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Post by ThatGuy on Oct 17, 2017 19:48:00 GMT
No thank you, that would be anticlimactic. Your thesis is a form over substance argument, but it there is clearly another factor: People want fresh faces and heroes. This is the secret ingredient in times of existing demand paired with galloping superhero fatigue. When they appear is only of lesser concern. I am more interested in WW, Flash, Aqua and Black Cyborg origin stories. I have seen enough Batman solo origin films for a life, and nobody will top Nolan. This the reason why there is no Batman solo film yet. Supes was OK because his origin film is from the 70s. 1: His name is Cyborg. And 2: Yes. The thing that the MCU did that none of the others did was bring in characters that wasn't done to death (until Spider-man). I'll give DC credit with Green Lantern, though. That was a noble effort in giving us a new character at least.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 17, 2017 20:16:03 GMT
No thank you, that would be anticlimactic. Building up characters rather than tossing them in half-baked is anticlimactic? No, it's pretty logical. So give them separate movies and build them up properly. Batman existed well enough before Nolan, and frankly his films worked due to having no competition. Giving us a Batman movie set in a Universe that acknowledges magic and aliens and all that stuff is something we HAVEN'T seen in live action before and would be enough to justify another Batman movie.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:02:00 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. No, BvS is criminally underrated. No, it didn't try to copy the MCU formula. I don't see kiddie jokes, non-threatening villains, nor bad writing in BvS.
The whole cinematic universe needs to be connected is stupid. More standalones like Man of Steel and Wonder Woman.
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Post by scabab on Oct 17, 2017 22:10:19 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. No, BvS is criminally underrated. No, it didn't try to copy the MCU formula. I don't see kiddie jokes, non-threatening villains, nor bad writing in BvS. The whole cinematic universe needs to be connected is stupid. More standalones like Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. Man of Steel was not a standalone movie as it directly lead into Batman vs Superman.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:15:32 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. No, BvS is criminally underrated. No, it didn't try to copy the MCU formula. I don't see kiddie jokes, non-threatening villains, nor bad writing in BvS. The whole cinematic universe needs to be connected is stupid. More standalones like Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. Man of Steel was not a standalone movie as it directly lead into Batman vs Superman. Yes, it was a direct lead to Batman v. Superman, but there's no mention of the other heroes, no pointless cameos. It just Clark Kent's story.
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Post by scabab on Oct 17, 2017 22:20:52 GMT
Man of Steel was not a standalone movie as it directly lead into Batman vs Superman. Yes, it was a direct lead to Batman v. Superman, but there's no mention of the other heroes, no pointless cameos. It just Clark Kent's story. That's because they hadn't fully decided that it was the first movie in the DCEU at the time. It only even became a part of the DCEU after that movie made money.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 17, 2017 22:42:57 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. If you're ashamed of comics. No, it's not and no it didn't. Would've been better if it did try Marvel's way. So you hate all levity, despite it being a part of actual life, you hate the villains not being the stars of the show instead of the hero....and you think "Jar of piss" was good writing. Lovely, a refugee from Bizarro World. Except when DCEU does it? Because it does.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:53:58 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. If you're ashamed of comics. No, it's not and no it didn't. Would've been better if it did try Marvel's way. So you hate all levity, despite it being a part of actual life, you hate the villains not being the stars of the show instead of the hero....and you think "Jar of piss" was good writing. Lovely, a refugee from Bizarro World. Except when DCEU does it? Because it does. I'm not ashamed of comics. I haven't picked up a Marvel comic since I was like 12. I still read DC comics. And the DCEU's big thing isn't "It's all connected." It's connected, but that's not what's most important. Being connected loses creative freedom in writing and directing, making all of them look the same. They're just commercials for The Avengers. Why wasn't there any post credit scenes in Wonder Woman? Because it's not a commercial for Justice League. It's its own story. Iron Man doesn't need be in Captain America 3 or Spider-Man, nor does Hulk need to be in Thor 3. Make solo adventures with your heroes Marvel. The DCEU and X-Men movies don't feel like commercials for upcoming films.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:54:52 GMT
So basically, you're babying these boards because MCU fans can't handle an opinion that's not theirs? Gotcha. And did you delete my respond to the raptor? I'm "babying" both boards because the same thing happens on both. If Marvel fans can't handle negativity then that is their problem but insults towards other people won't be allowed anymore. No I didn't delete your post. I edited your post to remove the insult. If you don't like me tampering with your posts then don't insult people. But you take the MCU fans' sides in all arguments. Biased much. You're like a dad to all MCU babies.
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Post by scabab on Oct 17, 2017 23:06:58 GMT
I'm "babying" both boards because the same thing happens on both. If Marvel fans can't handle negativity then that is their problem but insults towards other people won't be allowed anymore. No I didn't delete your post. I edited your post to remove the insult. If you don't like me tampering with your posts then don't insult people. But you take the MCU fans' sides in all arguments. Biased much. You're like a dad to all MCU babies. My taking taking sides with anyone has zero to do with which series they prefer. As I've removed posts calling people Marveltards I've also done the same for those who call people DC Fanatics. Nobody on either side is to insult anybody. Though in general it does seem that that it is the DC Fans that cause more of the conflict. In any case this thread isn't about me, it's about DC and their direction so let's get back to that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 17, 2017 23:16:47 GMT
If you're ashamed of comics. No, it's not and no it didn't. Would've been better if it did try Marvel's way. So you hate all levity, despite it being a part of actual life, you hate the villains not being the stars of the show instead of the hero....and you think "Jar of piss" was good writing. Lovely, a refugee from Bizarro World. Except when DCEU does it? Because it does. I'm not ashamed of comics. I haven't picked up a Marvel comic since I was like 12. I still read DC comics. Eh, your loss. They want it to be. They just don't have the brains for it. Says you. They build up to something while telling their own stories, if that's what you mean. It's an origin story, same way First Avenger was and Iron Man 1 was and Thor 1 was. They had some connections to one another but kept to themselves at the same time. Why not? The whole point of a Shared Universe is that characters can come and go without it being an Avengers film. That's not taking advantage of them all co-existing. That's being lazy. BvS definitely was, and the X-Men movies act like it's still 2000 and are backwards in how they do things instead of being innovative.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 18, 2017 0:25:41 GMT
Indeed, it might have panned out better (no ironic puns please). It's not like they would have faced terrible competition either. Man of Steel was released in a really crowded summer and did fine financially.
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Post by moviemeisters on Oct 18, 2017 4:08:20 GMT
I am not talking about quality or writing or anything. I am simply talking about structure of the releases. We can most agree that BvS was a disaster. One of the problems was that they tried to copy the MCU with the extended universe all in one movie and it failed. If they did this, I feel that they would have been far more successful:
Man of Steel Solo Batman film of high quality Wonder Woman Justice League
It is a simply change, but a very important one. Neither Man of Steel nor Wonder Woman had to shoe horn a bunch of other characters in. Batman could have done the same. Imagine a high quality Batman solo film in the vein of the warehouse fight in BvS? Think about how much more excited we would be over the team up? That was one of the main reasons Marvel became so huge. They introduced all of these characters slowly and when we finally got to see them all together it was an event. Actually, I think what they did was fine in concept, but they should have taken their time with it. The idea of smaller team ups leading up to the big team up is a pretty good one. It's a better build up, I think. The problem is, that they did a team up with their second film. They rushed it, because they desperately wanted their own Avengers. Here's what I would have done: 1) Superman film (with a cameo by an un-powered Hal Jordan or Kyle Raynor (one is in the air force and the other works for a paper, so either one could fit organically in a Superman film)) 2) Batman film (with a cameo by an un-powered Barry Allen (police officers work with Batman all the time, so it fits)) 3) World's Finest film 4) Wonder Woman film (with a cameo by the Atlanteans) 5) Trinity film (Have mainly the Doomsday plot and Apokalips elements from BVS) 6) Justice League (Have short origin flashbacks to Green Lantern, Flash, and Aquaman. Introduce Martian Manhunter to gather the group) 7) The Dark Knight Returns Done!
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Post by Austra on Oct 18, 2017 4:24:11 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. If you're ashamed of comics. As a long time reader of comic books distributed by both companies, I'll say this: Current Marvel comics are crap in comparison to DC comics, whom are killing it. The Marvel cinematic universe deviates from the source material drastically, even for their character attributes. Iron Man, Thor, Ant-man, Doctor Strange all share the same values, and pace of progression. This is due to the Marvel formula. A respect for comics would demand that Marvel try harder when it comes to writing, for both the comics, and the movies. Don't try to use their comics to defend their movies.
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Post by DC-Fan on Oct 18, 2017 6:20:43 GMT
But you take the MCU fans' sides in all arguments. Biased much. You're like a dad to all MCU babies. My taking taking sides with anyone has zero to do with which series they prefer. As I've removed posts calling people Marveltards I've also done the same for those who call people DC Fanatics. Nobody on either side is to insult anybody. Though in general it does seem that that it is the DC Fans that cause more of the conflict. As someone who has been on the receiving end of many insults (1 MCU fan has repeatedly called me a "retard"), I can say that it's actually MCU fans who cause most of the conflict. The strange thing about MCU fans is that they not only constantly hurl insults at DC fans, it seems that MCU fans also constantly hurl insults at X-Men fans too.
I've pointed this out before. It's not really a Marvel vs DC war or an MCU vs DCEU war. It's really an MCU vs DC and Fox and Sony war. MCU fans just seem to hate anything that isn't MCU, including the X-Men movies. And this past summer, MCU fans took their insulting and flaming to a new level ever since Wonder Woman and Logan both started getting mentioned as Oscar contenders.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 18, 2017 10:28:56 GMT
If you're ashamed of comics. As a long time reader of comic books distributed by both companies, I'll say this: Current Marvel comics are crap in comparison to DC comics, whom are killing it. Nah, DC has to keep rebooting every few years. Marvels' never needed a full on reset like they have. Right now all people are complaining about at Marvel is how they can't stand that they gave minority characters and female characters bigger roles. But all those attributes WERE from the comics though. People who complain about that don't know that to begin with.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Oct 18, 2017 10:38:18 GMT
No, the writing and quality of the MCU is crap. No, BvS is criminally underrated. No, it didn't try to copy the MCU formula. I don't see kiddie jokes, non-threatening villains, nor bad writing in BvS. The whole cinematic universe needs to be connected is stupid. More standalones like Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. Man of Steel was not a standalone movie as it directly lead into Batman vs Superman. MoS was a standalone by every definition of the word. All plot points were resolved, Clark went through his arc from troubled, confused child to angry young man to finally someone grown up and knowing where he belongs (role, careeer etc - thus last shot: BIG smile). He defeated his enemies (really dead), got the girl and Martha was alive. There is nothing open and no need to resolve anything.
Of course MoS is now embedded into a bigger narrative structure. But BvS just picked up events and plot points from MoS starting new plot points and narrative arcs (Bats hostile because of superhuman destruction, ending in another arc).
Even serializes shows have standalone episodes. In the end MoS is a standalone movie, as is is WW. Dakprescotfan is right. Maybe you confuse terms like Elseworld, Multiverse with standalone.
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