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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 6:40:35 GMT
I am going to do a top 10 and go with
1) Donna (the absolute WORST and most annoying character to appear in the Arrow!!!) 2) Bee Lady 3) Hawkman 4) Hawkgirl 5) Cupid 6) Caculator 7) Ra's al Ghul (not so much horrible but very disappointing) 8) James Olsen 9) Evelyn Sharp (nothing like Starling and making her a teenager was an awful idea) 10) Mon El
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Austra
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I would do anything for Pavlova. Anything!
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Post by Austra on Oct 18, 2017 7:30:14 GMT
- Felicity
- Donna
- Felicity
- Donna
- Felicity
- Donna
- Felicity
- Hawkgirl
- Curtis
- Hawkman
[/quote] Matt Nable made a surprisingly good Ra's, however the material provided was terrible. I still can't believe Marc and Wendy made him ship Olicity. [/ul][/i][/div]
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Oct 18, 2017 8:56:43 GMT
Matt Nable made a surprisingly good Ra's, however the material provided was terrible.I like Matt Nable too, especially after I’d only just started seeing him in Arrow on my Season 3 Blu-rays and coincidentally happened across this interview with him on TV here: Firstly, he seems very down to earth. I know that term gets thrown around a lot, but I believe it applies to him. Secondly, he came across as very candid in this interview. He seemed very honest and didn’t shy away/hold back from talking about stuff that I imagine wouldn’t have been easy to speak about. Thirdly, I know that not everyone was happy with him being cast as Ra’s al Ghul in the show, and he probably received his fair share of haters – but I liked the fact that they went with an unexpected casting of the role. No, he may not be what one conjures up in their mind when thinking of the character, but neither was Liam Neeson, yet I thought he was great in the movie interpretation, just like I think Matt was similarly able to make his own stamp on the role/make it his own. And honestly, after watching this^ interview, it made me like him more than I already did thanks to his honesty and just simply coming across as a genuinely nice guy. I hadn’t seen Matt Nable in anything before Arrow (that I can recall), but I’ve watched him in a few different things since then. I hope he continues to find success. My favourite moment from Matt Nable as Ra's al Ghul was actually in the Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 episode 'Left Behind'. His reaction to Firestorm was hilarious, I thought (I finally found the video that includes it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFfueU4_Z-w - the moment I'm referring to takes place at 0:54-0:55). Sorry for getting OT from your thread, DebLovesBeccy. I'll get back to you on my least favourite 'Arrowverse' characters.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 12:58:31 GMT
My problem with Ra's al Ghul wasn't the actor and I agree with both of you that he was a good choice for the role. My main problem was they took away all his powers and the Lazarus Pit and they then brought in Damian Dhark in the following season and gave him all the powers Ra's al Ghul should have had and also gave him his own Lazarus Pit. I think Ra' was poorly handled and could have been so much better if the writers spent more time on him but unlike other previous villains it seemed like they wanted to get rid of him and I was expecting him to come back the following season with the help of the Lazarus Pit or for there to be a scene at the end with somebody taking him to the Lazarus Pit but none of that happened. With Damian having all the powers it also makes no sense why him and his people didn't just go in and take out Ra's al Ghul by themselves.
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Post by dazz on Oct 18, 2017 14:06:02 GMT
1 - Donna 2 - Hawkgirl 3 - Hawkman 4 - Prometheus 5 - Felicity 6 - Olsen 7 - Bee Bitch 8 - Cupid 9 - Stein 10 - Rip
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Post by General Kenobi on Oct 18, 2017 23:19:15 GMT
Donna (I had actually forgotten her until this post) Felicity The Bee Lady Hawkman Hawkgirl Vandal Savage Count Vertigo Cupid Jimmy Olsen Firefly
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Oct 19, 2017 10:31:40 GMT
My problem with Ra's al Ghul wasn't the actor and I agree with both of you that he was a good choice for the role. My main problem was they took away all his powers and the Lazarus Pit and they then brought in Damian Dhark in the following season and gave him all the powers Ra's al Ghul should have had and also gave him his own Lazarus Pit. I think Ra' was poorly handled and could have been so much better if the writers spent more time on him but unlike other previous villains it seemed like they wanted to get rid of him and I was expecting him to come back the following season with the help of the Lazarus Pit or for there to be a scene at the end with somebody taking him to the Lazarus Pit but none of that happened. With Damian having all the powers it also makes no sense why him and his people didn't just go in and take out Ra's al Ghul by themselves. I think what I appreciated about Matt Nable’s portrayal of Ra’s al Ghul was how ‘quiet’ he was. Granted, I haven’t watched Season 3 in some time, so I may have forgotten the time he ‘lost his cool’ as it were, but on the whole I just remember him speaking at normal volume levels and *not* yelling his lines – like so many villains tend to do. The majority of the time, I find villains who yell a lot and who are trying to be intimidating by raising their voices every other minute, in fact have the opposite effect – it just becomes old/stale and non-effective. ‘Quiet menace’ is the much better way to go, I think. Matt Nable’s Ra’s seemed rather ‘laid-back’ and ‘chilled’ a lot of the time, and especially in the Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 episode ‘Left Behind’ which I mentioned above^. Obviously at this point in time he hadn’t ‘gone crazy’ (like he seemed to do in the latter half of Season 3 when he was forcing Oliver and Nyssa to get married), he just seemed mildly annoyed at the Legends being in his home (his reaction to Firestorm is worth mentioning again, as it’s just so subtle and understated. Two guys combining to making a flaming dude apparently didn’t faze him – which is understandable given that he’d managed to stay alive a lot longer than regular people thanks to his ‘immortal hot tub’ aka the Lazarus Pit). To me it makes sense that someone who had lived as long as him would feel weary and like he’d ‘seen it all’ and had grown tired of everything. I just find that it’s the ‘quieter’ villains who are more effective when they eventually *do* let their rage get the better of them and have outbursts, as it’s more ‘unexpected’ then. This is just my opinion, of course.
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Post by General Kenobi on Oct 19, 2017 17:34:45 GMT
This is quickly turning into the Matt Nable Appreciation thead. So I don't think anyone will mind if I too jump on the bandwagon. Matt Nable was a good Ra's al Ghul. He was not over the top, or hammy. he was full of menace and charm and restraint and power. Where the character falls apart is not in Nable's performance, but in the scripts he had to work with. And despite that he still turned out a memorable performance that made you wonder what he could have done with better material.
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Post by dazz on Oct 19, 2017 21:50:32 GMT
Matt Nable was the Arrowverse equivalent of Jake The Snake in 80's WWF, and that is a good thing to say the least, but no more needs to be said at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 6:48:41 GMT
1 - Donna 2 - Hawkgirl 3 - Hawkman 4 - Prometheus 5 - Felicity 6 - Olsen 7 - Bee Bitch 8 - Cupid 9 - Stein 10 - Rip I noticed you mentioned Prometheus on your post Dazz and I can't remember if we talked about it before but have you seen what the original Prometheus is like in the comic books and would you have preferred him over the version we got in Season 5 of 'Arrow?' The original Prometheus is very different and he wears anl armoured costume with advanced technology in his steel cap that allows him to predict his opponent's every move in battles. He also has super-strength and is described as a dark reflection of Batman. I didn't mind the 'Arrowverse' version of the character that much but I would like to see the real version of him in the movies.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 7:05:09 GMT
This is quickly turning into the Matt Nable Appreciation thead. So I don't think anyone will mind if I too jump on the bandwagon. Matt Nable was a good Ra's al Ghul. He was not over the top, or hammy. he was full of menace and charm and restraint and power. Where the character falls apart is not in Nable's performance, but in the scripts he had to work with. And despite that he still turned out a memorable performance that made you wonder what he could have done with better material. I agree with both of you and it is a shame the writers didn't give him better material to work with. I think he would have been a bigger thread to Oliver if he had the powers he had in the comic books and Arkham games 'cause he would have been able to teleport in their battles, disappear, make multiple versions of himself to confuse Oliver and turn into a big sand version of himself. That would have been great to have seen on screen and they couldn't do that in the Nolan movies 'cause they made them too realistic which lead to us getting a small version of bane without the venom or Titan and also prevented them from using a lot of Batman's super powered villains. Some people like more grounded versions of villains but I prefer to see them with powers and would love the 'Arkham' version of Ra in the movies along with a proper 8-10 foot version of Bane with the venom.
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Post by dazz on Oct 20, 2017 7:58:00 GMT
1 - Donna 2 - Hawkgirl 3 - Hawkman 4 - Prometheus 5 - Felicity 6 - Olsen 7 - Bee Bitch 8 - Cupid 9 - Stein 10 - Rip I noticed you mentioned Prometheus on your post Dazz and I can't remember if we talked about it before but have you seen what the original Prometheus is like in the comic books and would you have preferred him over the version we got in Season 5 of 'Arrow?' The original Prometheus is very different and he wears anl armoured costume with advanced technology in his steel cap that allows him to predict his opponent's every move in battles. He also has super-strength and is described as a dark reflection of Batman. I didn't mind the 'Arrowverse' version of the character that much but I would like to see the real version of him in the movies. Nah wasn't aware of him prior to the show, I wouldn't have minded had he had powers as that explains the quick ability to cover ground in his ability, Prometheus's skill is OTT even for Arrow, he literally has all of 4 years to become Prometheus, only 1 of which to train under Talia who herself only trained Oliver for a few months 5 years earlier, so it's hardly like she was an expert in Oliver's style and tactics, as we have seen Oliver improved greatly over the course of the show in real time, by S3's end he was trained by and could defeat Ras himself, so how could Prometheus stand a chance ever against Oliver when he's had only a few years to Olivers decade and only 1 year training with his most skilled teacher?
Also the shitty writing for his backstory that meant every other story element needed to use so much gymnastics and shenanigans just to jump through these stupid hoops to justify and go against so much other stuff that made sense just pisses me off, like why did Talia train him? Oliver defeated Ra's in honourable combat as Ra's wanted him to, her anger wasn't even at what he did to the league which would have worked as Oliver twice defeated the demons head and twice took the position and bestowed it on people who destroyed it, Malcolm in his pettiness and Nyssa outright out of shame for what the league become, instead it's wah you killed my daddy for what? so Talai & Chase have a specific bond.
Prometheus was S5 in a nutshell which is Arrow since MG took over, so much promise but shitty delivery on interesting ideas rendering the show a shadow of it's former self, thank god 90% of the actors deliver in a way that makes watching this stuff fun...somewhat.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Oct 20, 2017 8:38:32 GMT
Characters who annoy and/or bore me:
Adrian Chase
Amanda Waller
Andy Diggle
Brie Larvan/Bug-Eyed Bandit
Carrie Cutter/Cupid
Carter Hall/Hawkman
Cecil Adams/Count Vertigo
Curtis Holt/Mr. Terrific
Hartley Rathaway/Pied Piper
Iris West
Leslie Willis/Livewire
Malcolm Merlyn
Moira Queen
Non
Sam Lane
Snapper Carr
Characters I’m undecided on:
Amaya Jiwe/Vixen
Evelyn Sharpe/Artemis
Eve Teschmacher
Maggie Sawyer
M’gann M’orzz
Mon-El
Nate Heywood/Steel
Rene Ramirez/Wild Dog
Wally West
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Post by General Kenobi on Oct 20, 2017 15:09:40 GMT
Man, hearing "original Prometheus" used to describe the character created by Grant Morrison makes me feel old. Because I remember the original Prometheus, who fought Blue Beetle back in the early 1980s. The second guy to take up that moniker is much better character though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 9:36:53 GMT
Felicity and Donna. The rest I can deal with
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 9:38:29 GMT
This is quickly turning into the Matt Nable Appreciation thead. So I don't think anyone will mind if I too jump on the bandwagon. Matt Nable was a good Ra's al Ghul. He was not over the top, or hammy. he was full of menace and charm and restraint and power. Where the character falls apart is not in Nable's performance, but in the scripts he had to work with. And despite that he still turned out a memorable performance that made you wonder what he could have done with better material. I agree with both of you and it is a shame the writers didn't give him better material to work with. I think he would have been a bigger thread to Oliver if he had the powers he had in the comic books and Arkham games 'cause he would have been able to teleport in their battles, disappear, make multiple versions of himself to confuse Oliver and turn into a big sand version of himself. That would have been great to have seen on screen and they couldn't do that in the Nolan movies 'cause they made them too realistic which lead to us getting a small version of bane without the venom or Titan and also prevented them from using a lot of Batman's super powered villains. Some people like more grounded versions of villains but I prefer to see them with powers and would love the 'Arkham' version of Ra in the movies along with a proper 8-10 foot version of Bane with the venom.
Ra's was epic in that game. Agreed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 9:39:41 GMT
Donna (I had actually forgotten her until this post) Felicity The Bee Lady Hawkman Hawkgirl Vandal Savage Count Vertigo Cupid Jimmy Olsen Firefly Firefly? Which tv show?
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Post by General Kenobi on Oct 22, 2017 13:25:46 GMT
He was in the first season of"Arrow". He was an ex-firefighter out for revenge. Never wore his comics costume but a firefighter's uniform.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 6:49:58 GMT
Nah wasn't aware of him prior to the show, I wouldn't have minded had he had powers as that explains the quick ability to cover ground in his ability, Prometheus's skill is OTT even for Arrow, he literally has all of 4 years to become Prometheus, only 1 of which to train under Talia who herself only trained Oliver for a few months 5 years earlier, so it's hardly like she was an expert in Oliver's style and tactics, as we have seen Oliver improved greatly over the course of the show in real time, by S3's end he was trained by and could defeat Ras himself, so how could Prometheus stand a chance ever against Oliver when he's had only a few years to Olivers decade and only 1 year training with his most skilled teacher?
Also the shitty writing for his backstory that meant every other story element needed to use so much gymnastics and shenanigans just to jump through these stupid hoops to justify and go against so much other stuff that made sense just pisses me off, like why did Talia train him? Oliver defeated Ra's in honourable combat as Ra's wanted him to, her anger wasn't even at what he did to the league which would have worked as Oliver twice defeated the demons head and twice took the position and bestowed it on people who destroyed it, Malcolm in his pettiness and Nyssa outright out of shame for what the league become, instead it's wah you killed my daddy for what? so Talai & Chase have a specific bond.
Prometheus was S5 in a nutshell which is Arrow since MG took over, so much promise but shitty delivery on interesting ideas rendering the show a shadow of it's former self, thank god 90% of the actors deliver in a way that makes watching this stuff fun...somewhat.
I can see why you have a problem with Talia's motivation. I was under the impression when she first came into the show she had a falling out with her Father and she wouldn't have cared about Oliver killing her Father since she was never even mentioned in the third season. Then there were rumours Damian Dhark's Wife was going to turn out to be Talia but that obviously didn't happen but apparently Talia loved her Father and was more loyal to him than Nyssa which doesn't make an awful lot of sense. Talia being added so late in the show after Ra had been killed off was confusing too and I think it would have worked better if they had her in Season 3 as somebody who was close to Ra and then she went away after he was killed off and came back looking for revenge on Oliver or they replaced Talia with Lady Shiva and had Shiva come to Star City to get revenge on Oliver for killing her former master and wanting to take over as the new Demon's head.
In the comic books Lady Shiva is the most deadliest member of the League of Assassins and is a better fighter than Ray himself. Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Batgirl etc have all struggled when they have come up against her in battle so it would have made more sense to have had Lady Shiva be the one that trained Prometheus and after Oliver defeated Prometheus he could have gone on to face Lady Shiva in the following season. Talia on the other hand was never that good of a fighter and one of the main reasons she become such a threat was 'cause she had her own group called the 'League of Shadows' and she mixed the Man-Bat formula with the Lazarus Pit and got them to all go into it and they turned into flying demons. Prometheus could have been handled a lot better and one other character that could have been handled better that comes to mind is Anarky.
I think they changed Anarky too much not having him as a teenage boy with a group of followers. His followers were what made him so much more dangerous ‘cause they listened to him and would do anything for him. Anarky had the ability to turn people who were feeling disillusioned with their lives to his side like ISIS do in real life and the writers should have played that out in 'Arrow.' I don't think he was as bad as some other versions of characters they did like the awful version of Firefly cdull pointed out but when you think about what they could have done with him it was disappointing and they could have had Anarky and his followers turn a lot of the young people of Star City against the Green Arrow and then had them out in the streets with Anarky masks protesting and burning things down and when Oliver unmasked him as a teen they could have had somebody take a picture of Oliver attacking him and then put it in a newspaper saying Green Arrow was attacking children which could have lead to more joining Anarky’s group. I don't think they understood the character or what he represented either. Anarky was an anarchist not a psychopath and he was disillusioned with life and wanted to take down all the corporations ‘cause he believed they were all corrupt. He was originally meant to be the third Robin and in some of the comic books become good.
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Post by dazz on Oct 23, 2017 17:20:02 GMT
I can see why you have a problem with Talia's motivation. I was under the impression when she first came into the show she had a falling out with her Father and she wouldn't have cared about Oliver killing her Father since she was never even mentioned in the third season. Then there were rumours Damian Dhark's Wife was going to turn out to be Talia but that obviously didn't happen but apparently Talia loved her Father and was more loyal to him than Nyssa which doesn't make an awful lot of sense. Talia being added so late in the show after Ra had been killed off was confusing too and I think it would have worked better if they had her in Season 3 as somebody who was close to Ra and then she went away after he was killed off and came back looking for revenge on Oliver or they replaced Talia with Lady Shiva and had Shiva come to Star City to get revenge on Oliver for killing her former master and wanting to take over as the new Demon's head.
In the comic books Lady Shiva is the most deadliest member of the League of Assassins and is a better fighter than Ray himself. Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Batgirl etc have all struggled when they have come up against her in battle so it would have made more sense to have had Lady Shiva be the one that trained Prometheus and after Oliver defeated Prometheus he could have gone on to face Lady Shiva in the following season. Talia on the other hand was never that good of a fighter and one of the main reasons she become such a threat was 'cause she had her own group called the 'League of Shadows' and she mixed the Man-Bat formula with the Lazarus Pit and got them to all go into it and they turned into flying demons. Prometheus could have been handled a lot better and one other character that could have been handled better that comes to mind is Anarky.
I think they changed Anarky too much not having him as a teenage boy with a group of followers. His followers were what made him so much more dangerous ‘cause they listened to him and would do anything for him. Anarky had the ability to turn people who were feeling disillusioned with their lives to his side like ISIS do in real life and the writers should have played that out in 'Arrow.' I don't think he was as bad as some other versions of characters they did like the awful version of Firefly cdull pointed out but when you think about what they could have done with him it was disappointing and they could have had Anarky and his followers turn a lot of the young people of Star City against the Green Arrow and then had them out in the streets with Anarky masks protesting and burning things down and when Oliver unmasked him as a teen they could have had somebody take a picture of Oliver attacking him and then put it in a newspaper saying Green Arrow was attacking children which could have lead to more joining Anarky’s group. I don't think they understood the character or what he represented either. Anarky was an anarchist not a psychopath and he was disillusioned with life and wanted to take down all the corporations ‘cause he believed they were all corrupt. He was originally meant to be the third Robin and in some of the comic books become good.
Even with Lady Shiva though the justification they used is wrong imo, wanting revenge on Oliver for the reason they used doesn't work, it's a thing they constantly do in the show in that they get so close to a logical and reasonable point but then fuck it up, it's like in S4 when Laurel brought back Sara, the argument she and Oliver had could have worked but it didn't because the writers choose the wrong elements to use, instead of being mad Oliver never told her about the pit after saving Thea Laurel's whole you don't tell me because you don't respect me pov would work if she were arguing about how he didn't tell her he was facing Ra's the first time, or that he was going to trade himself for Thea's life, because that's the truth where as the why didn't you tell me about the pit makes no sense as Oliver practically spent no time with Laurel to tell her about it, but everyone else had months to tell her but didn't, so why she was angry with him made no sense and she should have been more pissed at everyone else for that than him.
If Talia's grudge was because Oliver basically destroyed the League which she viewed as her birth right then that makes sense, hell that could ultimately tie in with Chase and his anger to Oliver because Oliver destroyed his "birth right" as well, which would explain why finding out his father hated him and was about to disown him or whatever it was Chase pretended to break over wouldn't matter to him, or if they both hold grudges because Oliver didn't simply kill their fathers but took that away from them, makes them more evil and petty but makes 20x more sense than the shit they gave us.
As for Anarky I agree they messed that character up, and he would have been a great villain for S5 or S6 had they not wasted him, I mean a anarchist inspiring the disillusioned into creating anarchy would be the perfect set up for Oliver to face as a season long problem both as Mayor and as Green Arrow, also it would fit with the shows pseudo batman motif and give Oliver and the show their own Joker style villain, this would have worked better as a reason to have the villain stick around as much whilst facing off regularly with the good guys also, Anarky could much like Joker see GA as the ying to his yang, that without order there cant be disorder because if all things are chaos then chaos is the norm sort of thing, so Anarky would want GA alive because he gives him contrast and a challenge to face and the insanity for this could make sense, unlike with Dahrk and others who just keep Oliver alive because it's a TV show and we need to stretch this out over 23 episodes.
Arrow's general lack of sense is the thing that annoys me most about this show, like Oliver wanting Diggle to become GA, Diggle is proven to be a bad archer, also GA spent a year with his arms shown bare to everyone meaning they all know GA is a white dude, it's a bit odd that after OQ gets outed as the GA then suddenly the GA grows about 2 inches puts on about 20lbs of muscle and becomes black, like sure no one would suspect this at all right? fucking muppets.
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