ag25
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@ag25
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Post by ag25 on Apr 5, 2018 23:38:10 GMT
But Riley was both of those things. He WAS aware of the supernatural world, of monsters and of how to contain/kill them. He could have done both since he didn't need to "learn" about these things. Nope, IMHO, Riley's problem was pure competitiveness. Someone called him Teutonic and that's what he was: tall, broad, normal. The problem was that he wanted to be the knight in shining armour that needed to save the damsel in distress. And Buffy was never in distress. He couldn't reconcile all the military weaponry being less effective than a girl in normal clothes jabbing them "with a sharp stick". He was proud of his 17, until Buffy told him her exploits. Let's be real here, like a military man, he needed to serve and protect - and he really couldn't do either, especially the protect. He expected Buffy to be the blonde stereotype, and she was not. Lol to all the captains! Ha, ha, I agree with both you and PreachCaleb....is that possible without me being contradictory?
Anyway, I agree for the most part with what you said mmexis. I think the writers were trying to have Riley be the kind of love interest I described as Buffy needing, but the execution of it was not done well. Yes, Riley's problems were that he was too competitive and wanted to be Buffy's white knight when she didn't need that. In my opinion, he was too good/perfect (not saying he was a Gary Stu) and then when he's flaws come out they were not explored enough as Caleb has said, or they were not explored in the right way, imo.
Now, my example of a Watcher love interest for Buffy was more along the lines of a younger Wesley (from the later seasons of Angel, but bumbling Wesley) or a younger Giles. They both have the skills needed for her supernatural world, have a darkness to them that gives them an edge but not too much, and would be alright with assisting Buffy save the world but not needing to rescue her, do you know what I mean?
I don't think Spike was entirely right when he told Riley that Buffy needed a "little monster in her man" per se, it's more of a person who could deal with the darkness of her world, and accept her place in it, while being a bright spot for her and connecting her to the real/normal world.
I also agree with what you said, PreachCaleb about Riley only knowing how to be military man and then that being taken away from him. It was the writers fault for only giving that aspect/dimension to him, then taking it away, and then focusing too much on his insecurities.
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mmexis
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@mmexis
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Post by mmexis on Apr 7, 2018 5:56:16 GMT
But Riley didn't start out as insecure. He was a good old "boy next door" type. The professor's assistant, he was helpful to everyone (starting from when they first meet and she drops the books on his head), he stood up for her where he could (Parker), he was normal and a typical college guy hanging out with his frat brothers.
And although he knew of the supernatural, he wasn't supernatural and I don't really think he knew how to deal with it, really, other than in a trap and retrieve way.
Yes, Riley had the insecurities foisted on him later. Everything was stripped away and all that he thought was true was not. He was betrayed on so many levels by people who had been central to him. To discover that everything he held immovable was not was too hard for him to handle: harder than the hostiles.
Buffy did need some monster in her man - even if they were the darker Giles and Wesley you mentioned. Giles, of course, had worshipped chaos and was quite different in his youth. she would never have tolerated a bumbling Wesley, she would have preferred the bad-ass, if she preferred him at all. Buffy was right in telling Riley that the problems in the relationship were all him and not her.
Here's another thought: when Riley realized how much he had been manipulated and used, he couldn't handle the reality.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 13:24:36 GMT
Giles never worshiped chaos. That was Ethan.
To be fair, he was also going through withdrawal. Once he's cleaned up, he handles it much better.
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ag25
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@ag25
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Post by ag25 on Apr 18, 2018 23:11:56 GMT
But Riley didn't start out as insecure. He was a good old "boy next door" type. The professor's assistant, he was helpful to everyone (starting from when they first meet and she drops the books on his head), he stood up for her where he could (Parker), he was normal and a typical college guy hanging out with his frat brothers. And although he knew of the supernatural, he wasn't supernatural and I don't really think he knew how to deal with it, really, other than in a trap and retrieve way. Yes, Riley had the insecurities foisted on him later. Everything was stripped away and all that he thought was true was not. He was betrayed on so many levels by people who had been central to him. To discover that everything he held immovable was not was too hard for him to handle: harder than the hostiles. Buffy did need some monster in her man - even if they were the darker Giles and Wesley you mentioned. Giles, of course, had worshipped chaos and was quite different in his youth. she would never have tolerated a bumbling Wesley, she would have preferred the bad-ass, if she preferred him at all. Buffy was right in telling Riley that the problems in the relationship were all him and not her. Here's another thought: when Riley realized how much he had been manipulated and used, he couldn't handle the reality.
Yes, I agree that Riley didn't start out insecure. My real problems with Riley mainly stem from his character in season 5.
Yes, exactly. When Riley found out he had been used and manipulated, I agree he couldn't handle the reality. He was lost. It was the writers fault for not exploring Riley's feelings of being lost in season 5, and/or mishandling it in the way they did...in my opinion of course.
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