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Post by snsurone on Dec 4, 2017 3:17:11 GMT
A few days before Thanksgiving, there was a letter to Dear Abby from a lady who confessed that she could not feel the emotions of the "holiday season". Both Abby and the commenters reassured this writer that she was not alone, and my OP echoed their answers. It's comforting to know that there are many others who share the revulsion of the commercialization and brainwashing of this time of year. For me, when I was a kid, Christmas mainly meant 10 days of no school!
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Post by Doghouse6 on Dec 4, 2017 4:00:11 GMT
And let us not forget that it was atheists, led by Madlyn Murray O'Hair, who were responsible for banning prayer in public schools. IMO, the voice of atheists are stronger than you may think. Just to keep the record straight, snsurone , the precedent-setting SCOTUS case on the matter, Engel v. Vitale (1962), was brought By Steven Engel and four other Jewish parents against the New York Board Of Regents Prayer (the one you quoted) recited in Baltimore public schools. The following year, Abington School District v. Schempp (1963), which was consolidated with O'Hare's case, was brought by Edward Schempp, a Unitarian Universalist, against the Pennsylvania school system that required biblical study and The Lord's Prayer in its classrooms. But whether brought by Jews, Unitarians, atheists or even Satanists, neither would have gotten anywhere without their First Amendment bases. It is true, however, that no judicial, legislative or political power rests with those who don't use it to maximum advantage. Some of them are more advantaged than others, placing the burden on those others to work much harder. The tax bill currently wending its way through Congress is illustrative enough of that.
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Post by neurosturgeon on Dec 4, 2017 4:24:51 GMT
I am about to spend my third Christmas in a row in a nursing home and the second one where I am at right now. Year One, it was right aftter I broke my ankle and leg and was shared a room with a confessed bank robber who the week after New Year,s threatened to kill me. I was move to a different room, but she attempted to set my bed on fire and was removed from the facility.
I am at a different facility this year, but last year, I was not invited to the Christmas Party because I didn't have a wheelchair to go in. Also my roommate then and now is Jehovah's Witness, a religion that doesn’t celebrate Christmas or Birthdays. So no little trees or cards on the closet door. For my last birthday, they ripped up the carpet in front of my room, so visitors weren’t allowed. The one before that, I was in isolation with an infection.
It really wasn’t important until I couldn't celebrate it.
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Post by snsurone on Dec 4, 2017 4:41:56 GMT
Neuro, I'm sorry to hear of your tragic position. The nursing home that you are in sounds like a real hell-hole. I sincerely hope that you will eventually end up in a decent facility.
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Post by neurosturgeon on Dec 4, 2017 6:44:06 GMT
It may not be decent, but the only place I will be happy is my home.
I miss not having any TV channels that show movies, my DVD collection, quiet, my cat and my housemate. Jack, my 91 year old friend, had been sharing my home since 1982. He is also a movie lover. He can remember seeing silent movies in tents. He snuck into GWTW in 1939. He gave up his fancy uniform as a Brooklyn Paramount usher to join the Navy in 1943 and in 1947, screentested for the movie "The Unsuspected," but lost the part to Ted North.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Dec 4, 2017 12:51:51 GMT
And just who the hell is Lacey Chabert, anyway? Lacey Chabert was one of the Mean Girls (2004), and like costar Lindsay Lohan, that was the peak of her success.
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Post by snsurone on Dec 4, 2017 14:42:55 GMT
Dog, most American holidays are excuses for parties, or store sales. While I can get behind flimsy excuses for parties, I'm absolutely not a fan of absolutely monetizing absolutely everything: every public agency or function privatized; every political dustup a pretext for fundraising; every last aspect of human life re-purposed as a profit center, etc. Bleeeah! So far, Martin Luther King Day has not been so commercialized, thank God! But it would not surprise me in the least to one day see TV ads for "MLK sales" in department stores. Just like Veterans' Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, etc.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Dec 4, 2017 15:14:54 GMT
And just who the hell is Lacey Chabert, anyway? Lacey Chabert was one of the Mean Girls (2004), and like costar Lindsay Lohan, that was the peak of her success. That's something, I guess. I was beginning to wonder if she was the child of a couple of those other are-we-supposed-to-know-who-they-are people like Rula Lenska and Jovan or maybe Carmelita Pope and Frankie Yankovic.
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Post by teleadm on Dec 4, 2017 18:46:52 GMT
I like to watch movies around Christmas that takes place around Christmas but is not necessarily seen as Christmas movies... Nick and Nora Charles Christmas in The Thin Man 1934 Christmas mayhem in The Man Who Came to Dinner 1942 Devil's Island Christmas in We're No Angels 1954
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Post by BATouttaheck on Dec 4, 2017 19:26:15 GMT
Just for the heck of it, did me a Scrooge Marathon last year and saw as many versions of A Christmas Carol as were available. It was surprising how many there are and how differently they treat the same story. $$$$ / & 👻👻👻 / = 🎄 teleadm Great trio of films you watch. I especially love We're no Angels
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Post by mikef6 on Dec 4, 2017 20:44:20 GMT
But, unfortunately, there are certain fringe groups (mostly atheists, I think) who object to ANY public display of ANY religion, citing "separation of church and state", and their voices are too damned strong. I don't know that it's fringe groups or mostly atheists, necessarily; the primary objection is to government entities endorsing or promoting religion. Businesses that take a "religion neutral" approach do so because they hope to maximize revenue. But we do still have two annual Christian holidays that tend to take over for weeks at their respective times of the year, "God" is printed on every piece of currency we spend and was inserted into the Pledge Of Allegiance within my lifetime, and yet, there's no national observance of anything connected to atheism, like even a single "Day Without God" for instance, in which no presidential speeches or legislative sessions feature mentions thereof. That doesn't sound to me much like atheist voices being "too damned strong." Well, in the first place, conservative "Christians" are all about being persecuted even though they are by far the largest religious group in the U.S. However, when they don't get their own way or are told that they cannot impose their religion on unwilling subjects, they get all whiny about having their religious rights taken away. In the second place, instead of atheists having too strong a voice in our society (a statement that is part of the victim claiming I mentioned in the first paragraph), it is more than possible that they won the school prayer case because they were right and the forced prayer rules were wrong. Also, that using government to promote one religion is also wrong as is a company that promotes the owners’ religion to their employees. I don't really see how they can claim Christmas as a Christian observance, in the last place. There are just too many social, political, and, yes, even theological reasons to sit out the season. Let's take the birth narratives, for example. Of the four gospels in the Christian scriptures, only two talk about the birth of Jesus. The only other mention outside of the gospels is St. Paul in Galatian 4:4 when he says the Christ came when it was time, "born of a woman." Now, back to the gospels, Matthew and Luke. The two accounts are impossible to reconcile. They both agree that Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up in Nazareth and that Mary and Joseph were his parents. But then things go off in all directions at once. Matthew tells of the family living in Bethlehem, the star, the Magi, the slaughter of the innocents, the trip to Egypt, and the return to hide out in Nazareth. None of this is in Luke. Luke has it that the family already lived in Nazareth, came to Bethlehem for the census, had to stay in a stable where Jesus was born, were visited by shepherds and angels. None of this is in Matthew. Continuing with Luke, after Jesus' birth, they returned home without any detour to Egypt. Nativity scenes invariably bring these two accounts together showing the manger scene along with the Magi kneeling and the star overhead in a ridiculous attempt to harmonize the two very different accounts. Even further, if conservatives really read their Bibles like they claim they do they would know that the purpose of the birth narratives was to show that Jesus was the new Moses and new King David. Similarly, the official biographies of many Roman emperors featured starry displays. Nowhere is the sentiment that god-loved-us-so-much-that-he-came-to-Earth-as-a-tiny-baby, nor that it represents the spirit of sacrifice or giving. The entire modern Christmas scene is a commercial creation. Nothing to feel warm and fuzzy about.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Dec 4, 2017 21:17:28 GMT
I have the one relative, my mother. All other relatives that I'm close to live on the other side of the country. We've been quietly NOT exchanging gifts for about six years now. A tiny tree and some lights and that's it. We might exchange tiny little stocking stuffer type gifts but sometimes we don't. Christmas, to me, is now a peaceful time to be with your family and friends and be grateful for what you have. Losing a loved one and having a health scare of my own have changed my point of view. I don't want for anything. I have a coworker who gets so stressed before Christmas going shopping, and after Christmas returning all the gifts she didn't like. I will never understand that way of thinking. If there were a child in the picture, I'd probably be one of those angry, stressed shopping fathers you see in the malls!
And in the bigger picture, if there is nothing but Santas and snowmen on display everywhere, it's still Christmas. We should probably not let it drive us to madness!
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Dec 4, 2017 21:20:28 GMT
I like to watch movies around Christmas that takes place around Christmas but is not necessarily seen as Christmas movies... Nick and Nora Charles Christmas in The Thin Man 1934 Christmas mayhem in The Man Who Came to Dinner 1942 Devil's Island Christmas in We're No Angels 1954 I love finding movies that are "Christmas" movies but aren't know as such. Thanks for the recommendations. I have always wanted to see the Bogart version of We're No Angels, and have not seen The Man Who Came To Dinner. The Thin Man I have seen about 20 years ago, but none of the rest, yet. I have them all recorded from TCM so maybe I will get to them around Christmas.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Dec 4, 2017 21:28:50 GMT
Lebowskidoo 🦞 Speaking of Christmas Cheer... COOL new avatar !
On disk for annual must see viewing : Karloff's Grinch and Twilight Zone - Art Carney as Santa ( Night of the Meek Will Vinton's Claymation Christmas
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Post by vegalyra on Dec 5, 2017 17:36:05 GMT
I'm Christian and while I feel the commercialism of the holiday is at an all time high, I believe the United States and other countries that celebrate the season would be far worse off without Christmas. There would be a huge blank space at the end of the year. I imagine New Years would pick up the slack though. I love the season, and Advent is the beginning the Christian church year.
My favorite holiday is still Thanksgiving though, as out of all of the traditional American holidays it is the least commercialized. Sure, Black Friday encroaches on it, but it's not Thanksgiving related. It's still a family focused holiday and a time of togetherness even though stores have attempted to subvert this by having their sales on Thanksgiving Day now (I believe that these stores should be boycotted summarily).
At least now, businesses do not have to be neutral regarding "Christmas". The First Amendment does not apply to privately owned businesses. They just do so because they believe it will help their bottom line by saying "Happy Holidays" or whatever. That's their right. We'll see what this Supreme Court case has to say about the wedding cake for the gay couple. It's to be ruled on very soon. Part of the discussion is whether the cake is a first amendment display of art. Who knows.
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Post by snsurone on Dec 7, 2017 22:43:32 GMT
I forgot to mention that I also love THE BISHOP'S WIFE. It's very heartwarming, and IMHO, contains Loretta Young's best performance, although I think the real acting honors belonged to Gladys Cooper. I wish she was nominated as Best Supporting Actress.
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Post by howardschumann on Dec 8, 2017 2:34:35 GMT
And just who the hell is Lacey Chabert, anyway? Lacey Chabert was one of the Mean Girls (2004), and like costar Lindsay Lohan, that was the peak of her success. Hardly, the peak of her success. Lacey Chabert played Claudia Salinger, the youngest of five orphaned siblings on the TV show Party of Five from 1994-2000, a period of six years. During that series, she won or was nominated for 8-10 best young actress awards.
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Post by louise on Dec 8, 2017 7:18:15 GMT
well, we've had a midwinter festival in europe since well before Christian times - the Romans used to celebrate the saturnalia and most of the things we do at Christmas were already commonplace then - feasting, games, exchanging gifts, decorating the house with greenery etc. I used to enjoy it all when I was young, especially the decorations, and never thought of it particularly as having to be christian to do any of it. but yes it can be worrying. My most stressful year wAs when my sons wanted a Wii and I didn't think I'd be able to get them one - but I did manage it. I'm not against buying presents though, generally I approve of shopping - commerce is what makes the world go round.
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Post by snsurone on Dec 9, 2017 21:21:27 GMT
And then, it's all over, and it crashes with a resounding thud. Kinda like a drug user going through withdrawal cold turkey.
Then it's back to school, work, and our humdrum lives.
IMO, part of the winter doldrums is due to the end of the holiday season.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Dec 9, 2017 23:00:37 GMT
teleadm Thanks so much for reminding me about this cure for the dreaded Bah, Humbugs ! What a fun FUNNY movie it is. Noticing the historical references and the Hats and fur coats just added to the joy. Bette Davis was a delight and she was not her tightly wound "Bette Davis" character. Monty Wooley and Jimmy Durante... what a pair ! Incredible supporting cast with special mention of the ever wonderful Mary Wickes Link to more pictures:Thanks again !
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