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Post by kuatorises on Dec 20, 2017 14:31:35 GMT
Seems he was literally a generic placeholder, a CGI-carbon copy of the original Emperor performance in TESB and they decided to do away with him early as a twist. Did we know anything about the Emperor in the OT? Was he even given a name? No, he was just this random guy with Force Powers who helped corrupt Anakin into Vader. stop using logic, it interrupts their derp-fest.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 14:39:15 GMT
Did we know anything about the Emperor in the OT? Was he even given a name? No, he was just this random guy with Force Powers who helped corrupt Anakin into Vader. Okay that was the OT. Some of us were hoping Snoke was going to be more than a Discount Emperor. The more I think about it, the more I like how Snoke's actions and demise in this film developed Kylo into a much greater threat and a credible villain. That said, from a two and a half hour movie, there could have been 2 freakin minutes of reveal on Snoke to make him a much better character and still met the same demise.
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Post by simplemoviecommenter on Dec 20, 2017 14:51:25 GMT
Seems he was literally a generic placeholder, a CGI-carbon copy of the original Emperor performance in TESB and they decided to do away with him early as a twist. Did we know anything about the Emperor in the OT? Was he even given a name? No, he was just this random guy with Force Powers who helped corrupt Anakin into Vader. Don't try to compare the situations of Palpatine and Snoke. The Emperor is the leader of the Empire that rules over the galaxy. Apparently he's been the leader for decades. And he's Vader's master. Random guy? EVERY fictional character is random until you give them a fairly solid foundation in a story. So he has Force powers, so what? We keep finding out there's more Force Users out there than we thought. It makes sense.
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Post by jonesjxd on Dec 25, 2017 18:50:31 GMT
Here's what I don't get though. I'm not picking a fight with you, but your avatar is Palpatine. Between the years 1983 and 2005 there was never a pay-off for Palpatine. He was a hologram in Empire Strikes Back, he showed up, he tempted a hero, and was killed by his apprentice. That's literally the exact same thing that happens with Snoke in Force Awakens and Last Jedi. I wasn't alive to see the original trilogy in theaters, but I was long enough to have been well versed in Star Wars before the prequels came out. I never became unhinged over lack of back story for Palpatine, he was just a cool looking evil guy that didn't have a whole lot to do with the story but was important anyway. Then the prequels came around and his backstory was a contrived, murky letdown. If Abrams wants to do more backstory on him in Ep. 9 that's fine, but I don't really need to know, because it doesn't have anything directly to do with the story of Kylo, Rey, Poe, and Finn, the primary characters of this trilogy.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 25, 2017 19:16:50 GMT
Then the prequels came around and his backstory was a contrived, murky letdown. Curious, and there, as a life long fan of dystopian literature, I really thought the PT Palpatine backstory, scheme and his rise to power was by far the best writing in the Saga as a whole. A villain who succeeded not by clobbering but by scheming and manipulating, and who won and destroyed democracy at the end.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 25, 2017 19:26:19 GMT
We didn't even get a name for the Emperor in the Original Trilogy, or any kind of backstory... no one complained then.Yeah, actually people did. I'm getting sick of this revisionist history. The other day, a poster here claimed "no one complained that Yoda was a silly puppet, instead of a wise old jedi master" My brother did. In 1980. So, quit acting like know-it-alls, when you weren't even there.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 25, 2017 19:27:51 GMT
Did we know anything about the Emperor in the OT? Was he even given a name? No, he was just this random guy with Force Powers who helped corrupt Anakin into Vader. stop using logic, it interrupts their derp-fest. Lol you have a curious understanding of logic. When I say Snoke is just a copy the Emperor, and the response is essentially "no, we did not know more about the Emperor than Snoke, they are the same" that's a confirming non sequitur, not logic. But I keep putting lipstick on a pig...
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 25, 2017 20:11:27 GMT
Here's what I don't get though. I'm not picking a fight with you, but your avatar is Palpatine. Between the years 1983 and 2005 there was never a pay-off for Palpatine. He was a hologram in Empire Strikes Back, he showed up, he tempted a hero, and was killed by his apprentice. That's literally the exact same thing that happens with Snoke in Force Awakens and Last Jedi. I wasn't alive to see the original trilogy in theaters, but I was long enough to have been well versed in Star Wars before the prequels came out. I never became unhinged over lack of back story for Palpatine, he was just a cool looking evil guy that didn't have a whole lot to do with the story but was important anyway. Then the prequels came around and his backstory was a contrived, murky letdown. If Abrams wants to do more backstory on him in Ep. 9 that's fine, but I don't really need to know, because it doesn't have anything directly to do with the story of Kylo, Rey, Poe, and Finn, the primary characters of this trilogy. It looks like the same on the surface. But let's look a little deeper. The Emperor doesn't show up til the 2nd movie of the trilogy. In the first movie (ANH), we wouldn't even know he existed if not for one or two references in throwaway dialogue. In ANH Vader is clearly the power figure and the apex antagonist. He answers to Tarkin but only in matters of bureaucracy. That's quite different from the relationship Snoke and Kylo shared in the first episode of the sequel trilogy (TFA). Kylo clearly cowers to Snoke. He is dependent upon Snoke's guidance. Hux and Kylo spent considerable time arguing about accomplishing Snoke's goals and how best to go about it. And when they meet Snoke in person they're preoccupied with appeasing Snoke. That's already happened in the first movie of this trilogy. We don't see Snoke's OT counterpart until the second movie. And it's just a hologram cameo. Also consider the dynamic that we see between the Emperor and Vader in TESB. For all we know from the relationship dynamic in that scene, the Emperor could just be some decrepit old man that Vader respects because he has greater powers of clairvoyance than Vader. Vader is clearly not a groveling, dependent sycophant to him the way Kylo was to Snoke. It's not til halfway into the last movie of the trilogy that the Emperor becomes a "fleshed out" character. Why am I bringing all of this up? Because it's a natural inclination of many story readers/viewers to want to know the backstory of the apex antagonist. In fact it was one of the main motivations for Lucas to make the prequels: constant requests from fans to do a backstory on Vader. And when Disney treated their apex antagonist like a throwaway placeholder to give Kylo some artificial character progression, it pissed some fans off.
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Post by jonesjxd on Dec 25, 2017 20:17:05 GMT
I don't think any of the politics of the prequel trilogy work, but maybe that's just me.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 25, 2017 20:58:18 GMT
Did we know anything about the Emperor in the OT? Was he even given a name? No, he was just this random guy with Force Powers who helped corrupt Anakin into Vader. Okay that was the OT. Some of us were hoping Snoke was going to be more than a Discount Emperor.Lol, that nails it, discount emperor in a rehashed OT seduction/betrayal storyline. But we need more story background on Snoke than we needed on Palpatine. That is simply because Snoke does not fit well in the established narrative of the previous films. He is a super powerful dark side user with a lot of knowledge. So, where did he come from, where was he in the past? Was he a Sith? Not possible: rule of 2. Was he a Jedi? No, Yoda said he and Luke were the last ones. So unlike with OT Palps we need some plausible explanation as to Snokes background and rising. And it can't just be that they pulled him out of their asses.
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Post by THawk on Dec 25, 2017 21:04:36 GMT
People are really comparing apples and oranges with the lack of backstory to this dude and the Emperor in the OT. Everything in the OT was new, you weren't supposed to have details about the major players. But they certainly will have to explain about Snoke in Episode 9, or the whole story around him will come off as incredibly lame.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 5:15:06 GMT
And why bother bringing up the whole bit about him being around to see the rise and fall of the empire if there wasn't some kind of relevant tie-in to the previous trilogies? Why the specificity of the fact that he tempted Kylo from birth? How'd he know to do so when no one in the galaxy knew Leia was Vader's daughter outside Luke's circle? Andy why make such a big deal about him knowing exactly what happened in ROTJ's throne room climax? No one's supposed to know that. Also, he's far more powerful than Palpatine ever was, so if he was around during that time, why wasn't he challenging the Empire for control? And if knows intimate details about both our villains and our heroes than no one else in the galaxy knows, doesn't that by default make him the bridge character?
Can they really have blundered this bad?
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Post by pk9 on Dec 31, 2017 6:17:55 GMT
Here's what I don't get though. ... Between the years 1983 and 2005 there was never a pay-off for Palpatine. He was a hologram in Empire Strikes Back, he showed up, he tempted a hero, and was killed by his apprentice. That's literally the exact same thing that happens with Snoke in Force Awakens and Last Jedi. Except Palpatine gets killed off in the final movie of the trilogy, at the climax of the story. We never needed a huge backstory other than "he's the most powerful villain boss." His backstory is built into whatever years predate the start of episode IV, and it wasn't really important how he rose to power, etc. Snoke is a new character introduced in a sequel after the events of the previous movie wiped out the "evil force users" faction and left us with (apparently) one living force user, period. Of course there are gonna be questions about who he is, how he became a powerful force user, and (if he's old enough) what the hell was he doing during episode VI? They seemed to be setting him up as the Palpatine-equivalent of the new trilogy, but then they off him halfway through the second movie with no explanation whatsoever to answer the aforementioned questions.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 15, 2019 22:57:26 GMT
LMAO now they're bringing back the Emperor.
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