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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 17:11:36 GMT
What is up with Fred and Ethel?
First of all, Fred looks like he's about two generations older than Ethel, Lucy, and Ricky. It's so odd to see younger people just 'hanging out' with an old man.
Then again, it was a different time back then. There were many young women at ages as early as 15 marrying men in their late 30s and even early 40s. So it is possible a 17 year old Ethel married a 40 year old Fred. Now if Ethel were 40, Fred would be 63.
Thoughts?
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Post by Richard Kimble on Feb 15, 2017 13:31:10 GMT
This was the reason for the Vance-Frawley feud. Supposedly Frawley overheard VV complaining about the age gap -- she said something like "He should be playing my grandfather" -- and the war was on.
Although Gale Gordon was Ball's first choice to play Fred Mertz (he was obligated to Our Miss Brooks) the role was also offered to James Gleason, no spring chicken himself. But JG wanted too much money. Frawley's drinking had made him almost unemployable, so Desi Arnaz took a low-cost chance on him.
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bess1971s
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Post by bess1971s on Feb 17, 2017 18:24:20 GMT
This was the reason for the Vance-Frawley feud. Supposedly Frawley overheard VV complaining about the age gap -- she said something like "He should be playing my grandfather" -- and the war was on. Although Gale Gordon was Ball's first choice to play Fred Mertz (he was obligated to Our Miss Brooks) the role was also offered to James Gleason, no spring chicken himself. But JG wanted too much money. Frawley's drinking had made him almost unemployable, so Desi Arnaz took a low-cost chance on him. I never knew that James Gleason was considered for the role of Fred. He's one of my favorite character actors and I can see him in the role.
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Post by naterdawg on Feb 20, 2017 5:37:18 GMT
Believe it or not, I think the pairing worked, especially when they did the song and dance numbers.
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Post by telegonus on Feb 20, 2017 8:14:48 GMT
The Vance-Frawley pairing worked at the time, probably does look a bit odd seen through contemporary "eyes". That there was less age segregation back then was a factor. I mean, families often got together on weekends,--cousins, uncles, grandparents--so seeing what might appear to be an "odd couple" wasn't unusual. I had an aunt who, a few years after her husband's death from a heart attack married a man fifteen years older than she was with white hair who vaguely resembled her father! Anyway, the union lasted twenty-three years. She took care of him (physically, mentally, cooking, etc.), he took care of her (financially, as someone to go to the movies or the dog track with). So, to return to Viv and Bill, they weren't really a strange sight,--back in the day, that is.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 20, 2017 19:08:35 GMT
I know there were a lot of complaints against the pairing, but they did work.
As to Fred being so much older? I remember the episode they were making 'final confessions' and Fred revealed she was about half a dozen years older than she said she was when they first met.
Favorites episodes: Breaking the Lease, Too Many Crooks, New Neighbors, The Freezer, The Kleptomaniac, Pioneer Women, The Ricardos Change Apartments, The Million Dollar Idea, Ricky Loses His Temper, The Great Train Robbery, The Passports, Off to Florida, and Lucy and Superman.
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OmegaWolf747
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Post by OmegaWolf747 on Feb 24, 2017 23:11:14 GMT
Fred and Ethel were so awesome together. I think the actors hating each other in real life made their relationship on screen hilarious. The tension between them was real!
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Two Socks
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Post by Two Socks on Feb 25, 2017 12:50:17 GMT
They don't make comedy like this anymore, where the lines aren't crude, and sometimes its just plain funny action. Lucy made the show work. I think the Fred-Ethel pairing that we have works great. The age gap at the time as others have mentioned, wasn't frowned upon and did happen.
Favorite episodes: Lucy Does a Commercial, Job Switching, Pioneer Women, Lucy's Schedule
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Post by louise on Feb 26, 2017 17:41:40 GMT
ethel was meant to be a bit older than Lucy I think, though in real life she wasn't. I assume she and Fred were meant to have met when they were in vaudeville, ethel may have admired Fred as a performer. It is not unheard of for younger women to marry older men even today. He was probably a Bit more dashing when he was younger.
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OmegaWolf747
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Post by OmegaWolf747 on Mar 1, 2017 13:30:19 GMT
Vivian Vance wasn't older than Lucille Ball? You could've fooled me.
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Post by snsurone on Mar 2, 2017 22:06:42 GMT
Notice that there is a plump blonde who plays bit roles in several episodes. She is actress Barbara Pepper, who was a good friend with Lucille Ball in their RKO days. Later, she had great problems finding work, due to age, weight, and alcoholism, so the Arnaz's helped her with their show. Later, she achieved some measure of fame as Mrs. Ziffel on GREEN ACRES.
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bess1971s
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Post by bess1971s on Mar 3, 2017 18:25:29 GMT
Vivian Vance wasn't older than Lucille Ball? You could've fooled me. I believe Vivian was only a couple of years older than Lucy. The age difference is undetectable when they were on The Lucy Show.
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Courwes
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Post by Courwes on Mar 3, 2017 18:32:31 GMT
Vivian Vance wasn't older than Lucille Ball? You could've fooled me. I believe Vivian was only a couple of years older than Lucy. The age difference is undetectable when they were on The Lucy Show. Yeah she was only 2 years older than Lucille but on the show Ethel was supposed to be at least 10 years older than Lucy. Ball made Vance dress frumpy as Ethel so that she would appear much older. Vivian Vane was notoriously irritated by not only Bill Frawley as her husband but having an old woman's name like Ethel and having to dress like an old woman. It's why when she went to star on the Lucy Show she used her own name Vivian and chose her own dress which was much more modern than her wardrobe on I Love Lucy.
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Post by Richard Kimble on Mar 6, 2017 14:14:51 GMT
Ever notice the "uh oh" from the audience when Lucy gets herself into another crazy situation?
That's Lucille Ball's mother.
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OmegaWolf747
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Post by OmegaWolf747 on Mar 6, 2017 14:21:27 GMT
Was Lucy filmed before an audience? I don't even recall a laugh track.
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bess1971s
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Post by bess1971s on Mar 7, 2017 15:07:39 GMT
I Love Lucy was filmed before a live audience and I'm pretty sure her other shows were,too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 19:57:22 GMT
Yeah I think it was filmed before a live audience. Desi pioneered some of the filming techniques, like multiple cameras.
I heard their feud was legendary. I don't know what's rumour and what's fact at this point. But either way, it totally works. As was mentioned, "back in the day" but let's be honest, even now, it is not uncommon to see a younger woman with an older man. So I don't really flinch.
Plus having grown up in "the projects," and tenement housing, we'd see couples like this all the time, and that back-door friendliness was also part of the charm.
I don't think there were any episodes I did not like (except when Little Ricky came into the picture). Fan favourites will include the chocolate factory and Vitavegamin episode.
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camimac
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Post by camimac on Mar 8, 2017 20:34:10 GMT
What is up with Fred and Ethel? First of all, Fred looks like he's about two generations older than Ethel, Lucy, and Ricky. It's so odd to see younger people just 'hanging out' with an old man. Then again, it was a different time back then. There were many young women at ages as early as 15 marrying men in their late 30s and even early 40s. So it is possible a 17 year old Ethel married a 40 year old Fred. Now if Ethel were 40, Fred would be 63. Thoughts? Yeah, it was a different time back then (i.e. the '50s) People were not as focused on youth back then, as they are now. Also, I don't think that Fred and Ethel were supposed to be the ages that we know they were. We know that Lucille Ball was 40 years old when the show began, but the Lucy character was supposed to be at least 10 years younger. Based on the "Ethel's birthday episode, fred said Ethel's age was between Speedy Cleaners and Goldblatt's Delicatessen (one was celebrating a 40th anniversary and the other a 50th anniversary), we know Ethel was probably 45 yrs old or so ( a bit older than Vivian Vance). Even tho we know Fred was about 63 in 1951 when the show began, I think we are supposed to assume he is a little younger (but not much younger, if you remember the episode when Ethel sold his golden gloves shirt to the second hand clothes man. The shirt was from 1909! )
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OmegaWolf747
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Post by OmegaWolf747 on Mar 8, 2017 23:10:16 GMT
Lucille Ball was 40?! Ye gadz! I always thought she was just in her 30s when they did the show.
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camimac
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Post by camimac on Mar 8, 2017 23:13:36 GMT
Lucille Ball was 40?! Ye gadz! I always thought she was just in her 30s when they did the show. Yep 40. Her birthdate: 8/6/11 and the show began in 1951.
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