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Post by darkpast on Dec 22, 2017 19:15:12 GMT
'Last Jedi' Grosses Are Collapsing With The Worst Daily Holds Of All 9 Star Wars Movies Now that the initial weekend flush is behind it, that hot period when pretty much anything that had the Star Wars name on it could have earned $500 million worldwide, audience fervor for Star Wars: The Last Jedi has cooled off like a chilly winter evening on planet Hoth. In North America, daily holds for the Rian Johnson-directed flick have been significantly worse than those experienced by Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, and if the pattern continues The Last Jedi could actually wind up doing not much better than the 2016 spin-off movie. That, of course, would be a catastrophic result, akin to Warner/DC’s disastrous, money-losing fiasco with Justice League. Just as Justice League jammed all of DC’s biggest and most valuable superheroes into a single, swing-for-the-fences mash-up that failed to earn even as much as the single-hero, half-priced (yet far superior) Wonder Woman, so it appears that Disney may have turned the one-time opportunity to put Luke and Leia together in their last movie into an under-performing debacle that earns little more than the band-of-nobodies Rogue One. Not that Star Wars: The Last Jedi is in any danger of losing money. There’s too much momentum behind the franchise, too many people who will pay to see it even when they’ve heard it’s a disappointing mess. Disney could have called it The Star Wars Movie That Will Completely Turn You Off From Ever Seeing Another Star Wars Movie Again and it still would have collected $1.2 billion at the box office and turned a tidy profit. But for Disney, and for anyone watching, this isn’t really a matter of whether The Last Jedi turns over a billion or more in revenue. That was always an easy target. This is a matter of how well the film succeeds in meeting financial expectations, how well it fulfills the needs of the franchise, and whether it strengthens the Star Wars brand for future projects. By those measures, The Last Jedi already looks like a dud.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 22, 2017 19:38:01 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness!
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Post by darkpast on Dec 22, 2017 19:50:18 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness!Hopefully the live action tv show can at least be good |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 22, 2017 20:02:33 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness!Hopefully the live action tv show can at least be good Yes indeed, what a shame that in the Golden Age of TV and after 40 years we have not seen any SW live action show. And as TV traditionally attracts the older semesters, I hope it should be more grown up Star Wars in the vein of GOT & Co. (No jab at the Cartoon shows intended. These do their job well.) |
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Post by audiosane on Dec 22, 2017 20:35:00 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness!TLJ was super safe as it was. Did anyone else notice how much of ESB and ROTJ it rehashed? Here's some examples: - Resistance leaving planet like the Rebels did Hoth - Luke training Rey - Rey moving rocks - Rey having a Force vision in a dark side place - Rey trying to redeem the main villain - Snoke tortures Rey before Kylo Ren kills him - The First Order chases the Resistance instead of the Falcon (since that's now with Rey's storyline) - salt planet instead of snow one - Luke is only seen on one planet before dying there in his second film (Yoda) On top of this, TLJ takes all the mystery box stuff TFA set up and throws it in the dumpster. Why make a big deal of Rey's parents only to give us blue balls in the sequel? I don't care that Rey's parents were nobodies, but I do care that Rey's Force vision in that hole amounted to a big fat nothing. We don't even get to see what her parents looked like? Bah. Whether TLJ was well received or not, I had no real hope for IX. Look no further than its director. TLJ already rehashed ESB and ROTJ. What, is Abrams gonna rehash ROTJ and TFA? Talk about the snake eating its own tail! |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 22, 2017 20:58:26 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness!TLJ was super safe as it was. Did anyone else notice how much of ESB and ROTJ it rehashed? Here's some examples: - Resistance leaving planet like the Rebels did Hoth - Luke training Rey - Rey moving rocks - Rey having a Force vision in a dark side place - Rey trying to redeem the main villain - Snoke tortures Rey before Kylo Ren kills him - The First Order chases the Resistance instead of the Falcon (since that's now with Rey's storyline) - salt planet instead of snow one - Luke is only seen on one planet before dying there in his second film (Yoda) On top of this, TLJ takes all the mystery box stuff TFA set up and throws it in the dumpster. Why make a big deal of Rey's parents only to give us blue balls in the sequel? I don't care that Rey's parents were nobodies, but I do care that Rey's Force vision in that hole amounted to a big fat nothing. We don't even get to see what her parents looked like? Bah. Whether TLJ was well received or not, I had no real hope for IX. Look no further than its director. TLJ already rehashed ESB and ROTJ. What, is Abrams gonna rehash ROTJ and TFA? Talk about the snake eating its own tail! Fair enough and correct. When I say "play it save" I mean in relation to TFA. TLJ played it save too but IMO not to the degree that TFA did. Take the rehash/originality element you pointed out: Yes, TLJ rehashes a lot of plot elements from Empire/Jedi but not to the plagiarizing degree TFA did: Just take the first plot beats: Stormtroopers attack civilians and slaughter them for item, enter masked bad guy who interrogates and kills leader, takes character prisoner who has hid item in astro-droid, droid into the desert... etc Can't do this with TJ to this degree, also there are new elements: Eg as you point out "Empire is chasing the Falcon" is replaced with: FO chases Fleet a la Battlestar Galactica, including a Casino planet visit, a ship mutiny because of new commander, constant fuel shortness, finding save planet etc. I fully approve of stealing from Battestar Galactica (great story elements if you have no new ideas) but they did it with shoddy writing (plot holes/redundancies) and drowned the survival-suspense with Marvel humor. Just think: the fleet was massacred down to a few VIPs on the Falcon and they still played it as a happy end!? That being said, TLJ IMO is still an originality improvement over TFA. I can criticize TLJ, but I cant hate it... |
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Post by mcufan on Dec 23, 2017 13:33:13 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness! That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 15:12:16 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness! That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. There's a reason so many films coming out are remakes of ones that succeeded before. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 16:20:08 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness! That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to be both original and nostalgic. It's possible to keep circling around the same ring without rehash. It's possible to follow a logical progression of character development and still surprise the audience. What SW desperately needs is good writing. But about 10 years ago, Hollywood decided it didn't need writers anymore. After all, there's a formula and as long as you follow the formula, there's money to be made. |
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Post by darkpast on Dec 23, 2017 17:43:23 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness! That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. Funny, I feel like that about the Vanilla MCU films  |
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Post by audiosane on Dec 24, 2017 1:23:14 GMT
TLJ was super safe as it was. Did anyone else notice how much of ESB and ROTJ it rehashed? Here's some examples: - Resistance leaving planet like the Rebels did Hoth - Luke training Rey - Rey moving rocks - Rey having a Force vision in a dark side place - Rey trying to redeem the main villain - Snoke tortures Rey before Kylo Ren kills him - The First Order chases the Resistance instead of the Falcon (since that's now with Rey's storyline) - salt planet instead of snow one - Luke is only seen on one planet before dying there in his second film (Yoda) On top of this, TLJ takes all the mystery box stuff TFA set up and throws it in the dumpster. Why make a big deal of Rey's parents only to give us blue balls in the sequel? I don't care that Rey's parents were nobodies, but I do care that Rey's Force vision in that hole amounted to a big fat nothing. We don't even get to see what her parents looked like? Bah. Whether TLJ was well received or not, I had no real hope for IX. Look no further than its director. TLJ already rehashed ESB and ROTJ. What, is Abrams gonna rehash ROTJ and TFA? Talk about the snake eating its own tail! Take the rehash/originality element you pointed out: Yes, TLJ rehashes a lot of plot elements from Empire/Jedi but not to the plagiarizing degree TFA did: Just take the first plot beats: Stormtroopers attack civilians and slaughter them for item, enter masked bad guy who interrogates and kills leader, takes character prisoner who has hid item in astro-droid, droid into the desert... etc Can't do this with TJ to this degree, also there are new elements: Eg as you point out "Empire is chasing the Falcon" is replaced with: FO chases Fleet a la Battlestar Galactica, including a Casino planet visit, a ship mutiny because of new commander, constant fuel shortness, finding save planet etc. I fully approve of stealing from Battestar Galactica (great story elements if you have no new ideas) but they did it with shoddy writing (plot holes/redundancies) and drowned the survival-suspense with Marvel humor. Just think: the fleet was massacred down to a few VIPs on the Falcon and they still played it as a happy end!? That being said, TLJ IMO is still an originality improvement over TFA. I can criticize TLJ, but I cant hate it... All right. There does seem to be a big difference in degree between TFA and TLJ. Do you think Abrams will heavily rehash the OT for IX? |
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Post by audiosane on Dec 24, 2017 1:34:38 GMT
Yes, I feared as much after the toxic online backlash. Not good if TLJ underperforms as this will only motivate Disney to play future films super save and predictable a la JJ Abrams. IMO not good for the franchise as the rehash med is the remedy that will finally turn to poison putting the franchise down artistically. Into Darkness! That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. What I prefer is a lot fewer scenes that remind me of better movies while not dumping on the shit the previous film bothered to setup. Two separate issues. The first concerns the OT while the second concerns TFA. |
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Post by audiosane on Dec 24, 2017 1:36:05 GMT
That's my "fear" also. But fans spoke. Originality vs stuck in the same routine. I guess they prefer the later. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to be both original and nostalgic. It's possible to keep circling around the same ring without rehash. It's possible to follow a logical progression of character development and still surprise the audience. What SW desperately needs is good writing. But about 10 years ago, Hollywood decided it didn't need writers anymore. After all, there's a formula and as long as you follow the formula, there's money to be made. ... ^_- Wait. What happened to the writers 10 years ago? |
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Post by Archelaus on Dec 24, 2017 3:46:12 GMT
The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to be both original and nostalgic. It's possible to keep circling around the same ring without rehash. It's possible to follow a logical progression of character development and still surprise the audience. What SW desperately needs is good writing. But about 10 years ago, Hollywood decided it didn't need writers anymore. After all, there's a formula and as long as you follow the formula, there's money to be made. ... ^_- Wait. What happened to the writers 10 years ago? I'm guessing he's referring to the 2007-8 writers' strike. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 4:33:45 GMT
The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to be both original and nostalgic. It's possible to keep circling around the same ring without rehash. It's possible to follow a logical progression of character development and still surprise the audience. What SW desperately needs is good writing. But about 10 years ago, Hollywood decided it didn't need writers anymore. After all, there's a formula and as long as you follow the formula, there's money to be made. ... ^_- Wait. What happened to the writers 10 years ago? To be honest, I wasn't referring to a strike; I didn't even know there was one. I'm just saying that it seems like in the last 10 years or so, the writing has sucked in major motion pictures in general. It seems less creative and more formulaic. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but I have a better chance seeing something creative in a tv, HBO or Netflix series than I do at a cinema. And that's sad. |
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Post by Nightman on Dec 24, 2017 6:16:04 GMT
... ^_- Wait. What happened to the writers 10 years ago? To be honest, I wasn't referring to a strike; I didn't even know there was one. I'm just saying that it seems like in the last 10 years or so, the writing has sucked in major motion pictures in general. It seems less creative and more formulaic. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but I have a better chance seeing something creative in a tv, HBO or Netflix series than I do at a cinema. And that's sad. Thanks to the recession and aforementioned writers' strike, Hollywood did indeed grow more afraid to take risks about a decade ago. Dwindling ticket sales in general and the fact that "creative" movies don't make as much profit as "safer" movies don't help any. TV is considered a safer investment; I dunno why, I don't math. I don't blame Hollywood. They have plenty of creative writers at their disposal who are kept reined in by their bosses. The fault lies at the feet of the general public for sticking with movies that adhere to formulas they know. |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 24, 2017 7:15:21 GMT
Fair enough and correct. When I say "play it save" I mean in relation to TFA. TLJ played it save too but IMO not to the degree that TFA did. Take the rehash/originality element you pointed out: Yes, TLJ rehashes a lot of plot elements from Empire/Jedi but not to the plagiarizing degree TFA did: Just take the first plot beats: Stormtroopers attack civilians and slaughter them for item, enter masked bad guy who interrogates and kills leader, takes character prisoner who has hid item in astro-droid, droid into the desert... etc Can't do this with TJ to this degree, also there are new elements: Eg as you point out "Empire is chasing the Falcon" is replaced with: FO chases Fleet a la Battlestar Galactica, including a Casino planet visit, a ship mutiny because of new commander, constant fuel shortness, finding save planet etc. I fully approve of stealing from Battestar Galactica (great story elements if you have no new ideas) but they did it with shoddy writing (plot holes/redundancies) and drowned the survival-suspense with Marvel humor. Just think: the fleet was massacred down to a few VIPs on the Falcon and they still played it as a happy end!? That being said, TLJ IMO is still an originality improvement over TFA. I can criticize TLJ, but I cant hate it... All right. There does seem to be a big difference in degree between TFA and TLJ. Do you think Abrams will heavily rehash the OT for IX? Abrams? I totally fell for Lost and believed, and did not learn my lesson. I then said Abrams learned from the Into Darkness Act 3 rehash fiasco and now wants to redeem himself with Star Wars, and we got TFA. So yeah, I might not be the best profiler of the man's psyche. But I am positive on one thing: We won't get Slave Leia rehashed again,...Slave Finn maybe. |
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Post by CowherPowerForever on Dec 24, 2017 15:05:17 GMT
Disney claimed the hate was fake, and internet warriors keep saying that, but the bigger than expected drops at the box office prove the fans didn't really care for it. We all knew it wasn't going to put up TFA numbers, but this won't even get in the same ball park. 600 million might not even happen domestically.
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Post by audiosane on Dec 28, 2017 19:33:36 GMT
... ^_- Wait. What happened to the writers 10 years ago? To be honest, I wasn't referring to a strike; I didn't even know there was one. I'm just saying that it seems like in the last 10 years or so, the writing has sucked in major motion pictures in general. It seems less creative and more formulaic. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but I have a better chance seeing something creative in a tv, HBO or Netflix series than I do at a cinema. And that's sad. I wonder if Marvel's success with its MCU had anything to do with it. |
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Post by audiosane on Dec 28, 2017 19:37:32 GMT
All right. There does seem to be a big difference in degree between TFA and TLJ. Do you think Abrams will heavily rehash the OT for IX? Abrams? I totally fell for Lost and believed, and did not learn my lesson. I then said Abrams learned from the Into Darkness Act 3 rehash fiasco and now wants to redeem himself with Star Wars, and we got TFA. So yeah, I might not be the best profiler of the man's psyche. But I am positive on one thing: We won't get Slave Leia rehashed again,...Slave Finn maybe. Finn was already a slave. He even undressed a little in the desert. Maybe Abrams will subvert expectations by giving him the surname "Freeman". |
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