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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 15:16:19 GMT
Be nice. Graham is one of the more promising board trolls here. Would you have guessed he is also an MCU and J Gunn jokes fan Nope, never said I was a fan of Gunn's jokes. I couldn't be, since I've never read or seen any of them. As I recall, what I said is that I don't care about his jokes. Which I don't. I have that in common with his critics, of course. Lol, I have no idea why my avatar is so upsetting to a certain group of people. But the fact that Blinky gets under their skin amuses me, so thanks for that. Since I'm not a Star Wars fan, what is "good for Star Wars" really isn't an interest of mine.Wow! That was easier than I thought. There it is.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 22, 2018 15:23:08 GMT
Be nice. Graham is one of the more promising board trolls here. Would you have guessed he is also an MCU and J Gunn jokes fan, who would have thought with that avatar really. What he wants can only be good for Star Wars. May the raccoon turd be with you, always.
He's a razor-sharp dude, @graham . With interesting, nuanced, complex opinions on films. And then the most banal, throwaway, simple, uninteresting, misguided, long-refuted Gen-X idiotic hipster opinions about the prequels. It's a damn shame. Not even that the dude doesn't like the flicks, but because all he's got are Plinkett-retread criticisms and jabs at them that went stale in about 2004. It's a legit shame, for serious. I have a rather simplistic three box system with prequel haters (especialyl after the creative disaster of the ST):
1. Dislike, hate or loathe them with a passion (or Star Wars as a franchise) = OK, might even be a great mind, just not his/her thing.
2. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits in terms of storytelling, art design, world building, music and technical achievement = Ignoramus with poorly developed analytical skills.
3. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits AND argue it by regurgitating the primitive Plinkett rant material = Laughable dimwit just too stupid to realize how obtuse he is.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 15:27:35 GMT
He's a razor-sharp dude, @graham . With interesting, nuanced, complex opinions on films. And then the most banal, throwaway, simple, uninteresting, misguided, long-refuted Gen-X idiotic hipster opinions about the prequels. It's a damn shame. Not even that the dude doesn't like the flicks, but because all he's got are Plinkett-retread criticisms and jabs at them that went stale in about 2004. It's a legit shame, for serious. I have a rather simplistic three box system with prequel haters (especialyl after the creative disaster of the ST):
1. Dislike, hate or loathe them with a passion (or Star Wars as a franchise) = OK, might even be a great mind, just not his/her thing.
2. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits in terms of storytelling, art design, world building, music and technical achievement = Ignoramus with poorly developed analytical skills.
3. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits AND argue it by regurgitating the primitive Plinkett rant material = Laughable dimwit just too stupid to realize how obtuse he is.
We had a lot of fun on this very forum with this very poster regarding item 3. Good times! He may go home and rethink his life.
It's just: anyone who likes the original trilogy but not the prequels is either: a moron who listens to his older brother's opinion about everything, some casual fan square who doesn't really get Star Wars at all least of all the OT they claim to love so much, an internet hipster dipshit quoting Plinkett, or formersamhmd. It frustrates me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 15:30:28 GMT
Why thank you. Lol, I've heard there is some kind of movement to try and recast the prequels as good but misunderstood movies. If that works for you, then more power to ya. I find them to be creative failures on every level, and I've never met anybody who could successfully defend them. First of all, the very idea that they need to be "defended" is ludicrous. And yet here you are, doing it anyway! So what? Even if we accept that statement as true (which it patently is not), I seriously don't understand why you think it has any relevance. Surely you understand that "but other films suck too!" is not a defence of a movie! And yet simply implying that I didn't like them brought some rather emotive attacks on me, personally. So it seems like it's actually not fine if I didn't like them. Man, I think you're talking to the wrong person here. Like I've said, I'm not particularly a fan of Star Wars. I have no great fond childhood memories of seeing the original trilogy, and no particular love for it. I do recognise them as telling a good involving story, as having interesting and likeable characters that the audience roots for, as good examples of world-building, and as cool sci-fi action movies. But that's about as far as it goes. (This isn't to say that they are perfect movies at all. They're not. And don't get me started on the special editions.) Actually I was always a Star Trek guy waaaay more than a Wars guy. Now those movies I love, even the bad ones! But Star Trek is in far worse shape than Wars is these days, and producing far shittier material, too. But yeah... I'm not some "oooo, the OT is everything!" kind of a guy. But I can certainly look at the prequel trilogy and see that they are just objectively bad movies. Badly written, badly acted, with poor characters that you have no reason to care about or be interested in, just all around terrible movies in every respect. But hey, you like them if you want to. It's no skin off my nose. Some people even like Star Trek : Discovery, and that's a steaming pile of rotten elephant excrement.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 15:43:51 GMT
First of all, the very idea that they need to be "defended" is ludicrous. And yet here you are, doing it anyway! So what? Even if we accept that statement as true (which it patently is not), I seriously don't understand why you think it has any relevance. Surely you understand that "but other films suck too!" is not a defence of a movie! And yet simply implying that I didn't like them brought some rather emotive attacks on me, personally. So it seems like it's actually not fine if I didn't like them. Man, I think you're talking to the wrong person here. Like I've said, I'm not particularly a fan of Star Wars. I have no great fond childhood memories of seeing the original trilogy, and no particular love for it. I do recognise them as telling a good involving story, as having interesting and likeable characters that the audience roots for, as good examples of world-building, and as cool sci-fi action movies. But that's about as far as it goes. (This isn't to say that they are perfect movies at all. They're not. And don't get me started on the special editions.) Actually I was always a Star Trek guy waaaay more than a Wars guy. Now those movies I love, even the bad ones! But Star Trek is in far worse shape than Wars is these days, and producing far shittier material, too. But yeah... I'm not some "oooo, the OT is everything!" kind of a guy. But I can certainly look at the prequel trilogy and see that they are just objectively bad movies. Badly written, badly acted, with poor characters that you have no reason to care about or be interested in, just all around terrible movies in every respect. But hey, you like them if you want to. It's no skin off my nose. Some people even like Star Trek : Discovery, and that's a steaming pile of rotten elephant excrement. And yet you precede that by attempting to dismiss my point about the OT and follow it by holding aloft the utterly execrable Star Trek franchise as some sort of better alternative. My bolded emphasis applies just as much to the OT insofar as it applies at all. But it applies TENFOLD to Star Trek. Are you seriously here defending that viewpoint with a straight face? Your credibilty just jumped off a cliff. I assumed you were taking some snooty Nalkarj tack here, but instead you're just... a Star Trek fanboy Ho-ly shit, dude. Talk about "poor characters that" one has "no reason to care about or be interested in." You know how I know nobody cared or was interested in those shitty characters? Because more people have seen any of the prequels than literally every one of its shitty ST contemporary films combined. I could've accepted, "Look, I'm just a pretentious d-bag too full of myself to enjoy Star Wars." There's plenty of those, but I will not be lectured on the perceived foibles of the prequel trilogy by some Trekkie fucking loser. Sorry, mang. That's WEAK shit.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 22, 2018 15:47:29 GMT
I have a rather simplistic three box system with prequel haters (especialyl after the creative disaster of the ST):
1. Dislike, hate or loathe them with a passion (or Star Wars as a franchise) = OK, might even be a great mind, just not his/her thing.
2. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits in terms of storytelling, art design, world building, music and technical achievement = Ignoramus with poorly developed analytical skills.
3. Dislike, hate or loath them AND deny their merits AND argue it by regurgitating the primitive Plinkett rant material = Laughable dimwit just too stupid to realize how obtuse he is.
We had a lot of fun on this very forum with this very poster regarding item 3. Good times! He may go home and rethink his life.
It's just: anyone who likes the original trilogy but not the prequels is either: a moron who listens to his older brother's opinion about everything, some casual fan square who doesn't really get Star Wars at all least of all the OT they claim to love so much, an internet hipster dipshit quoting Plinkett, or formersamhmd. It frustrates me. and yet there was never a better time to be a "PT lover" thanks to Ms Kennedy. She has shown us the merit of vision, art design, creativity and world building by their sheer absence. Never forget that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 15:53:26 GMT
And yet here you are, doing it anyway! So what? Even if we accept that statement as true (which it patently is not), I seriously don't understand why you think it has any relevance. Surely you understand that "but other films suck too!" is not a defence of a movie! And yet simply implying that I didn't like them brought some rather emotive attacks on me, personally. So it seems like it's actually not fine if I didn't like them. Man, I think you're talking to the wrong person here. Like I've said, I'm not particularly a fan of Star Wars. I have no great fond childhood memories of seeing the original trilogy, and no particular love for it. I do recognise them as telling a good involving story, as having interesting and likeable characters that the audience roots for, as good examples of world-building, and as cool sci-fi action movies. But that's about as far as it goes. (This isn't to say that they are perfect movies at all. They're not. And don't get me started on the special editions.) Actually I was always a Star Trek guy waaaay more than a Wars guy. Now those movies I love, even the bad ones! But Star Trek is in far worse shape than Wars is these days, and producing far shittier material, too. But yeah... I'm not some "oooo, the OT is everything!" kind of a guy. But I can certainly look at the prequel trilogy and see that they are just objectively bad movies. Badly written, badly acted, with poor characters that you have no reason to care about or be interested in, just all around terrible movies in every respect. But hey, you like them if you want to. It's no skin off my nose. Some people even like Star Trek : Discovery, and that's a steaming pile of rotten elephant excrement. And yet you precede that by attempting to dismiss my point about the OT and follow it by holding aloft the utterly execrable Star Trek franchise as some sort of better alternative. No, I didn't do that. I held up the Star Trek franchise as a set of movies I was a fan of, whilst pointing out that some of them are bad, in comparison to the Star Wars movies that I'm not especially a fan of, even though some of them are bad and some of them are good. No, it doesn't. I have my issues with the SW original trilogy, but they're much, much better films than the prequels in pretty much every way. Oh hell yes, I'm a Star Trek fanboy. But once again, you seem determined to believe that I'm claiming Star Trek is better than Star Wars, prequels or originals. When I didn't say any such thing. I'd certainly say I like any Star Trek movie more than any Star Wars movie, which is a different thing. But that's just because I think Star Trek is just way more awesome than Star Wars. Naturally I'd expect any Star Wars fan to see it the other way around. Which is fine. Look, it's pretty clear that you have a lot of anger going on here because I pointed out that the SW prequel trilogy is a pile of crap. Obviously nothing I say is going to change that, and it seems that little I say is even going to be understood, passing as it appears to be through the "let's fight" filter you have going on. Given that, I don't see much point in responding further. Just... tell yourself that we had a fight, and you won. Then we can both walk away happy!
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 15:53:49 GMT
It's just: anyone who likes the original trilogy but not the prequels is either: a moron who listens to his older brother's opinion about everything, some casual fan square who doesn't really get Star Wars at all least of all the OT they claim to love so much, an internet hipster dipshit quoting Plinkett, or formersamhmd. It frustrates me. and yet there was never a better time to be a "PT lover" thanks to Ms Kennedy. She has shown us the merit of vision, art design, creativity and world building by their sheer absence. Never forget that.
Did you ever see the "grindhouse" version of A New Hope? (It's linked over in the EpIV v2 subforum.) There's a ton of deleted scenes, including several with Luke and his friends on Tatooine. And it's so clear from so much of the framing and the dialogue that the prequels are -- tonally, visually, and narratively -- so much closer to what Lucas saw in his mind's eye circa 1977. It's really interesting.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 16:12:28 GMT
And yet you precede that by attempting to dismiss my point about the OT and follow it by holding aloft the utterly execrable Star Trek franchise as some sort of better alternative. No, I didn't do that. I held up the Star Trek franchise as a set of movies I was a fan of, whilst pointing out that some of them are bad, in comparison to the Star Wars movies that I'm not especially a fan of, even though some of them are bad and some of them are good. No, it doesn't. I have my issues with the SW original trilogy, but they're much, much better films than the prequels in pretty much every way. Oh hell yes, I'm a Star Trek fanboy. But once again, you seem determined to believe that I'm claiming Star Trek is better than Star Wars, prequels or originals. When I didn't say any such thing. I'd certainly say I like any Star Trek movie more than any Star Wars movie, which is a different thing. But that's just because I think Star Trek is just way more awesome than Star Wars. Naturally I'd expect any Star Wars fan to see it the other way around. Which is fine. Look, it's pretty clear that you have a lot of anger going on here because I pointed out that the SW prequel trilogy is a pile of crap. Obviously nothing I say is going to change that, and it seems that little I say is even going to be understood, passing as it appears to be through the "let's fight" filter you have going on. Given that, I don't see much point in responding further. Just... tell yourself that we had a fight, and you won. Then we can both walk away happy! I love that you're attempting to slip in that the prequels are "a pile of crap" as an assertion of fact while under the guise of being a smug, condescending prick who's somehow "above" this interaction. I disagree, and I would argue that not only are they excellent films, as the criticisms you leveled at them apply equally to the OT and tenfold to any Star Trek garbage you would hold aloft as superior. Because if you can brush that point aside without anything to back it up, then I can bring it back up a zillion times. It also happens to be true, so I've got that going for me. But that the fact is, your precious Star Trek series has no merit whatsoever, literary or otherwise; it produced exactly one worthwhile and interesting, if kitschy, television series in the earnest, fun late-60s show that was in no way as pretentious as you('re clumsily attempting to) come across here, and that's that. That you fail to even fundamentally understand much less appreciate the mythological underpinning, narrative symmetry, and political and historical allusions made in the prequels -- and, beyond that, their larger significance in terms of both enriching the OT and as a standalone, transcendent takeaway about the human experience -- is your loss, but it doesn't make you any less of a willfully ignorant Trekkie loser. My uncle used to say the only difference between the hippies and the beatniks was that the hippies took the seeds out of their pot and the beatniks left it in. Or maybe it was the other way around, but the only difference between a Trekkie and a Star Wars fan? Honestly imagination. That dour piss-face you're no doubt wearing as you read this. I guess... sorry the Star Wars films aren't autistic and humorless enough for you? I assume you hated the new Trek films as well.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Aug 22, 2018 16:59:23 GMT
I'm a bigger Trek fan than a Wars fan...That said, the PT and OT are tonally consistent, and the world building in the former is quite fantastic. JJ's Trek is terrible.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 22, 2018 17:51:20 GMT
I’m not entirely sure what you meant, coldenhaulfield, but just to clarify I really hope I don’t come off as “snooty”—I certainly don’t intend to. And I really liked the two Star Wars movies I’ve seen—far preferred them to the Star Trek I’ve seen.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Aug 22, 2018 17:54:39 GMT
I’m not entirely sure what you meant, coldenhaulfield, but just to clarify I really hope I don’t come off as “snooty”—I certainly don’t intend to. And I really liked the two Star Wars movies I’ve seen—far preferred them to the Star Trek I’ve seen. I meant it as a compliment. I appreciate and admire your enthusiasm for serious and in-depth criticism of classic films. I merely meant that if he were trying to construct an elaborate argument that posits Star Wars films falter against something like Casablanca or something, that would be one thing. But to call it a "pile of crap" and then say Star Trek is superior is a bizarre and antiquated argument. ETA: what I should've said is "poor man's Salzmark." That might've been clearer.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Aug 22, 2018 23:45:39 GMT
First of all, the very idea that they need to be "defended" is ludicrous. And yet here you are, doing it anyway! So what? Even if we accept that statement as true (which it patently is not), I seriously don't understand why you think it has any relevance. Surely you understand that "but other films suck too!" is not a defence of a movie! And yet simply implying that I didn't like them brought some rather emotive attacks on me, personally. So it seems like it's actually not fine if I didn't like them. Man, I think you're talking to the wrong person here. Like I've said, I'm not particularly a fan of Star Wars. I have no great fond childhood memories of seeing the original trilogy, and no particular love for it. I do recognise them as telling a good involving story, as having interesting and likeable characters that the audience roots for, as good examples of world-building, and as cool sci-fi action movies. But that's about as far as it goes. (This isn't to say that they are perfect movies at all. They're not. And don't get me started on the special editions.) Actually I was always a Star Trek guy waaaay more than a Wars guy. Now those movies I love, even the bad ones! But Star Trek is in far worse shape than Wars is these days, and producing far shittier material, too. But yeah... I'm not some "oooo, the OT is everything!" kind of a guy. But I can certainly look at the prequel trilogy and see that they are just objectively bad movies. Badly written, badly acted, with poor characters that you have no reason to care about or be interested in, just all around terrible movies in every respect.But hey, you like them if you want to. It's no skin off my nose. Some people even like Star Trek : Discovery, and that's a steaming pile of rotten elephant excrement. Doesn't know the meaning of the word "objectively". Nor does he know the meaning of the term "in every respect".
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 3, 2022 14:23:33 GMT
What if Disney got Sam Raimi to reboot Star Wars?!!!??1111
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Post by twothousandonemark on Sept 3, 2022 14:27:21 GMT
Hate to break it to you, but the Disney trilogy was essentially a re-boot.
Unless after dispatching the galaxy of all evil military power with a starkilling base in Return of the Jedi, The New Order & its starkilling base was a brand shiny new idea for you in The Force Awakens.
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