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Post by Neon Maniac on Dec 26, 2017 1:19:33 GMT
I still like The Last Crusade a lot and always enjoy it, but for me it just holds up the least well of all the Indy films, and yes, this is taking Crystal Skull into account. Don't get me wrong as I think all four movies are awesome in their own way, even Last Crusade which I always enjoy a lot, and it wasn't even always my least favorite, but it just seems to hold up the least well of the films for me. I find it's far too lighthearted and comical, which in turn makes it not have the same feeling of danger and intensity Raiders and Temple Of Doom both had in big numbers, and Indy himself doesn't feel quite as edgy or cutthroat as he was in the previous two movies. The villains I think were the least interesting of the series, I always disliked how it rendered Sallah and Brody into useless comic relief and the opening sequence with Indy's backstory is so over the top to me. I also felt it was a mistake to go back to the Nazis again, unlike others I always liked how Temple Of Doom had totally different enemies for Indy to be up against, and I liked this about Crystal Skull as well. The Nazis being back was pretty boring to me.
I still think it's a great movie, don't get me wrong. Indy's father is an awesome character and the interplay the two have is priceless, and I dig the tank and boat scenes as well as the trials Indy faces near the end, but it's the one of the series I feel the least compelled to rewatch. I used to be in the majority of fans who felt Crystal Skull was the weakest, but I grew to enjoy it much more with repeat views and while far from flawless, I liked that it had a different mythology and different enemies for Indy to be involved with and I liked the setpieces and action of it more than Last Crusade. I liked that it tried something different and didn't do another Nazi storyline.
For the record, I rate both Raiders and TOD a 10/10 each and both of the latter two films score an 8/10 from me. I think they're all top-notch films but it seems uncommon for people to regard Last Crusade as a weaker film than the others. Which isn't to knock it of course, but I just find the others to be a little more entertaining.
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Post by Neon Maniac on Dec 26, 2017 1:53:10 GMT
, it was . I wouldn't say that, but picking a least favorite Indy film it's an easy choice. I still like it quite a bit, though. I just don't think of it as the be-all, end-all Indy film as others do.
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ravi02
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Post by ravi02 on Dec 26, 2017 4:38:05 GMT
So did you forget about the scene where Indy threatens to kill the Cruciform Sword leader by holding him in front of a boat propeller? When he murders several Nazi thugs when his dad calls him Junior? Nearly strangling Elsa when he sees her at the Nazi rally? Or when he laughs after horrifically killing a Nazi thug by jamming a rod through his wheels? Or what about the entire tank bit where he shoots through an entire line of Nazis and his bloody brawl with the Nazi Colonel? How is Indy not being "edgy" here? It's too "light-hearted" huh? What about the aforementioned scene where Indy confronts Elsa at the Nazi burning rally? Or the bit where Henry and Indy discuss their strained relationship aboard the zeppelin? The entire climax in the Grail Temple where Henry's been shot and Indy has to urgently save him? Those scenes are all played VERY seriously. You seem to completely forget all the comical slapstick bits in Temple of Doom: The opening where Indy stabs a guy with a flaming kekab, Willie asking Indy if he's a lion tamer, the life raft escape, Willie running around screaming at the jungle animals, Willie's comical bits with the elephant, the entire monkey brain/eels/beetles feast, the big guard tossing a hammer and knocking out a bystander, Short Round doing kung-fu on grown adult henchmen and the bit where Willie screams at seeing Mola Ram on the bridge. Most of this stuff is far more cartoonish than anything in Crusade. The whole point of the opening scene is to show WHY Indy became an archaeologist and how he developed his love of adventure and artifacts. It ties into the main story perfectly. Sallah and Marcus do have comical scenes, but they are hardly "useless". Sallah was never a serious character to begin with as in Raiders, he comically screams when the Well of Souls is opened and sings when Marion kisses him. He's the same in Crusade and still gets his badass moments (when he tries to get Marcus to run, saves Henry from the tank and tells the remaining Nazis to drop their guns). Marcus is also pretty much the same as in Raiders. He's still the same colleague of Indy's (when he talks about the Grail and tells Donovan he's meddling with powers he doesn't understand) and here he gets to have more fun with the role. Since the role of Indy's mentor is given to Henry Sr., it makes sense to have Marcus do some new things with the character. Plus, actor Denholm Elliot himself was OK with the humor: Denholm Elliot on Last CrusadeI don't understand why you'd have issues with Sallah and Marcus here, yet give Willie Scott (who's even more of useless comic relief) a pass. But they're doing something new with them this time. We're getting to see the entire army of them and Hitler himself. Having the leading lady, Elsa in league with the villains is a new feature and having the Nazi henchman (Vogel) being a physical threat to Indy is different from Raiders. Elsa's relationship with both of the Joneses and her own interest in the Grail adds some depth to the story. But Crystal Skull was still repeating elements from both Raiders and Crusade (relations with Marion, another father-son angle) and the Soviets were just the Nazis again with different costumes. Crusade does a LOT of things different from Raiders - the father/son relationship, the mythology of the artifacts (the Grail and medieval lore is quite different from the Ark), the female lead working for the villains, the prologue on Indy's origins, the themes, character relationships, tone and Indy's character arc with the Grail. It takes familiar elements and shapes it all into something new.
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Post by leesilm on Dec 26, 2017 23:37:26 GMT
Of the original trilogy, I'd say TEMPLE was my least favorite- but that probably has as much to do with not being able to stand the female lead or all her screaming, as it does the plot and any other element. LAST CRUSADE was my second-favorite of the bunch.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 27, 2017 3:16:42 GMT
It's my second favorite. Loved the relationship between him and his father. Donovan and Vogel were not imaginative foes compared with like Mola Ram or Toht but Elsa Schneider was an interesting villainess that held her own. The cold opening made perfect sense to me. Jones' adult life is like a cliffhanger serial so his childhood was basically a Stratemeyer styled boy's own adventure story. The action scenes were consistently entertaining from the circus train chase to the big tank battle. Something else I appreciated that the other movies tend to gloss over were the inventive booby traps whose solution(s) actually hinged upon his expertise and his father's.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 27, 2017 21:41:18 GMT
It is my least favorite of the original trilogy. I didn't like the back story opening (at all) and I didn't like the whole relationship with his father story (even though I'm a huge Sean Connery fan).
Crystal Skull is about equal to Last Crusade in my book. Both are good of course, but both have some serious issues for me.
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Post by Spike Del Rey on Dec 29, 2017 14:27:56 GMT
It's my second favorite, always has been. Just saw all four of them on the big screen again last summer and it was just as good today as it was the first time I saw all those moons ago in 1989.
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Post by Neon Maniac on Dec 29, 2017 22:09:31 GMT
It is my least favorite of the original trilogy. I didn't like the back story opening (at all) and I didn't like the whole relationship with his father story (even though I'm a huge Sean Connery fan). Crystal Skull is about equal to Last Crusade in my book. Both are good of course, but both have some serious issues for me. I feel the same way. I have no issues with the first two films, but when it comes to the latter two, I'll be thinking "this could've been better."
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 29, 2017 22:30:51 GMT
I only like the first film.
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ravi02
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Post by ravi02 on Dec 29, 2017 22:47:20 GMT
I didn't like the back story opening (at all) and I didn't like the whole relationship with his father story (even though I'm a huge Sean Connery fan). I don't get how one can say they like Sean Connery and not like his father-son relationship with Harrison Ford. It's one of his most memorable performances. I enjoy ToD, but feel like people who act like its a flawless film really need to take their nostalgia glasses off.
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Post by Neon Maniac on Dec 29, 2017 22:57:28 GMT
I don't know why Ravi is trying to speak with me when I have him on ignore. I remember how he was on the old IMDB and he could be a pain. I usually don't use the ignore list much but when it came to him I just had to.
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ravi02
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Post by ravi02 on Dec 29, 2017 23:10:22 GMT
I don't know why Ravi is trying to speak with me when I have him on ignore. I remember how he was on the old IMDB and he could be a pain. So because I requested that you stop spamming multiple boards with the same threads and then bumping them endlessly, that makes me a pain? There were plenty of other posters who found you to be a nuisance there, so don't play this "I'm a victim" card here.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jan 2, 2018 13:26:16 GMT
It's my least, though I do rate all the sequels equally B+ Crusade's weaknesses of lame leading lady & stupid villain are worse than the other 2's lows.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 2, 2018 13:32:02 GMT
Nope. That dubious honor goes to Temple of Doom. I like the ice/diamond bit at the beginning but enslaved children in jeopardy and the torture are not for me. Ark Crusade Skull (almost there) Doom
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Post by kuatorises on Jan 2, 2018 16:10:01 GMT
I haven't seen in a while, but I always remember part four being my least favorite.
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Post by James on Jan 4, 2018 23:25:07 GMT
I respect your opinion entirely, Neon Maniac, and can surely see where you are coming from. However, I think this is still my second favourite, with Temple of Doom not too far behind. I give the original 3 an 8/10 and Crystal Skull a 7.
Personally, I liked that they did the Nazi thing again because it's always nice to see them get their just deserts.
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tavaresmd
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Post by tavaresmd on Jan 5, 2018 17:08:32 GMT
Yes, by far
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Post by Neon Maniac on Jan 18, 2018 3:56:11 GMT
We're among the rare ones for sure. I still like it but I just don't get as much enjoyment out of it.
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Post by Neon Maniac on Jan 21, 2018 23:53:25 GMT
Another aspect of the film that bothers me is the revelation Indy stole his signature fedora and jacket look from the guy at the beginning. I never really liked that at all and to me it just cheapened his character to think his signature look wasn't even originally his own.
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Post by outrider127 on Jan 22, 2018 3:13:20 GMT
I still like The Last Crusade a lot and always enjoy it, but for me it just holds up the least well of all the Indy films, and yes, this is taking Crystal Skull into account. Don't get me wrong as I think all four movies are awesome in their own way, even Last Crusade which I always enjoy a lot, and it wasn't even always my least favorite, but it just seems to hold up the least well of the films for me. I find it's far too lighthearted and comical, which in turn makes it not have the same feeling of danger and intensity Raiders and Temple Of Doom both had in big numbers, and Indy himself doesn't feel quite as edgy or cutthroat as he was in the previous two movies. The villains I think were the least interesting of the series, I always disliked how it rendered Sallah and Brody into useless comic relief and the opening sequence with Indy's backstory is so over the top to me. I also felt it was a mistake to go back to the Nazis again, unlike others I always liked how Temple Of Doom had totally different enemies for Indy to be up against, and I liked this about Crystal Skull as well. The Nazis being back was pretty boring to me. I still think it's a great movie, don't get me wrong. Indy's father is an awesome character and the interplay the two have is priceless, and I dig the tank and boat scenes as well as the trials Indy faces near the end, but it's the one of the series I feel the least compelled to rewatch. I used to be in the majority of fans who felt Crystal Skull was the weakest, but I grew to enjoy it much more with repeat views and while far from flawless, I liked that it had a different mythology and different enemies for Indy to be involved with and I liked the setpieces and action of it more than Last Crusade. I liked that it tried something different and didn't do another Nazi storyline. For the record, I rate both Raiders and TOD a 10/10 each and both of the latter two films score an 8/10 from me. I think they're all top-notch films but it seems uncommon for people to regard Last Crusade as a weaker film than the others. Which isn't to knock it of course, but I just find the others to be a little more entertaining. No, Last Crusade is a masterpiece compared to Temple Of Doom
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