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Post by THawk on Mar 8, 2017 0:23:21 GMT
So yeah there are spoiler-free threads I see, but wanted to discuss the actual ending, so big spoilers obviously.
Just seen it, and hard to know what to think. It was freakin epic, tough as nails, badass movie, a proper Wolverine movie if there ever was one. It made use of its somewhat slower, character study pace fantastically, and if this is the end, it was a hell of a sendoff to one of the best fictional characters ever created.
What left me very confused though...is that this was the actual end. Logan is immortal, he can not die. Yes, I am the last person to demand that film sticks to source material, and yes I fully appreciate the "connected but also stand alone" nature of these films, but still. Beside his claws, the one known, certain thing about Logan is that he can not be killed. And the fact that they didn't really explain what killed him did not sit well with me. Some unnamed sickness and a stick through his stomach. It just seems that if they were going to do the seeming impossible...there should have been a clear reason for it provided.
The cross-into-X moment at the end, and the faith religious references were a welcomed sight though. Logan has struggled with religious questions far more than the movie ever depicted, so at least a hint of that was appreciated. The movie definitely moved me a lot, the action was awesome, and there's no doubt that overall it was a great send off. But the question of how exactly he died just felt like it needed a proper answer.
Professor Xavier's death was also surprising to me. Just because they already killed him off already in the franchise, so twice in the same series, alt. timeline or not? Shoot me if you will, but as good as he was in this, his death in the Final Stand was at least grander, felt a bit more poignant. Not saying it was the better movie, but both his and Logan's death, though touching and moving, left me in a kind of "wait a minute...?" state.
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Post by LeWildPlatypus on Mar 8, 2017 0:47:14 GMT
Could it be that Logan felt by doing what he did in the final act would redeem or cleanse him and that he could finally be at peace once X-23 was whisked to safety. He was no longer burdened by any responsibilities. I'm not sure about the source material, but I think it could be a mind set in which he allowed himself to die. He was also dealing with a terminal illness.
Pure speculation and just an observation on my part having not read the comic books. I'm curious myself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 18:54:32 GMT
Logan is not immortal, he's just very, very, oh so very hard to kill. That's all. He ages, just a lot slower than regular humans.
He died from the very thing that gave him part of his strength, adamantium poisoning. It's referenced a couple of times in the movie actually, Caliban refers to it, something rotting inside of Logan.
The adamantium was always poisoning him, ever since he first got it. But when he was younger, his mutant ability of super fast healing/regeneration kept it under check. When his mutant ability was at one point removed (story line in the comics, happened a couple of times actually, once in the Genosha story line, once later on with a super mutant cancelling out all mutations on Earth), he was deteriorating quite rapidly, came close to dying from that adamantium.
Another storyline told the tale of Magneto ripping all of the adamantium out of his body, Wolverine survived that (barely, but that's usually the case) and everyone was surprised to see his healing ability improving to the point that he could heal instantly from horrific accidents. (that was also the point where they found out that the claws were part of Wolverine's original mutation, as he still had them without the adamantium.)
So, Wolverine died of old age, poisoning and also neglecting himself entirely. He could have lived longer, if he had taken better care of himself. But not for very long, imo. He just didn't care anymore, apart from taking care of Xavier, he had nothing. And in the end he did care for the new generation of 'mutants' (which they weren't really), and gave his life for them.
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Post by longtimefilmfan on Mar 8, 2017 22:12:43 GMT
Well said 😊
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 10, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
I see no evidence that this movie takes place in an alternate universe or timeline.
Wolverine was poisoned by the adamantium. His body was constantly healing itself ever since it was attached to his bones. As he aged, it took a greater toll on his powers and they were eventually not able to keep up.
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deeznutz
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Post by deeznutz on Mar 16, 2017 18:02:15 GMT
He was basically dying from getting juiced up too much for the end fight, he was told too much will kill you...the tree also didn't help ...
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 17, 2017 2:24:43 GMT
Saw the movie today. I liked it a lot, its easily one of the best X-Men films to date and sad that it's the best Wolverine movie we've had so far.
Wolverine isn't immortal he just ages slower than everyone else. He will die eventually of old age, but it will take a very long time.
His adamantium poisoning should have been explained. It's something comic fans know, but general audiences need to be told about. I imagine people who don't know felt like whatever was killing him was a question that never got answered.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 14:42:33 GMT
Saw the movie today. I liked it a lot, its easily one of the best X-Men films to date and sad that it's the best Wolverine movie we've had so far. Wolverine isn't immortal he just ages slower than everyone else. He will die eventually of old age, but it will take a very long time. His adamantium poisoning should have been explained. It's something comic fans know, but general audiences need to be told about. I imagine people who don't know felt like whatever was killing him was a question that never got answered.
I believe that there were three or so clear moments where they pretty much outright state that it's the adamantium poisoning him. Never explicitly though, that's true.
Caliban says that there's something rotting inside of Logan. The doctor near the end of the movie says that he's being poisoned and that they have to do more tests to see what exactly was poisoning him, to which Logan replies that he knows what's poisoning him.
The movie does keep certain things fairly vague, sometimes it works, but usually it does leave questions.
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glenesq
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Post by glenesq on Mar 17, 2017 19:30:46 GMT
Where exactly are they crossing the border into Canada?
Any ideas?
Were the deserts and mountains of the final race to the border supposed to be North Dakota? The deserts and mountains of the North Dakota-Canadian border?
What the? That border is some of the flattest topography in the world, and it's treeless prairie.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 19:40:34 GMT
No idea at all. I also don't know why they believe that they'll be safe in Canada. At all, it's not like the company has any problems with breaking the law.
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glenesq
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Post by glenesq on Mar 17, 2017 19:49:02 GMT
Ya the magical border, that crossed my mind, too. No one is going to stop those maniacs at the border.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 20:12:33 GMT
They should have ended it with Wolverine punching a clawed fist out from the shallow grave and a "The End?" title card.
But yeah, as others have said, Wolverine wasn't immortal-- at least not typically. When it comes to comic books, continuity and consistency is all over the place and a bit fucked but the general interpretation is that he just ages more slowly due to his healing factor and as with any of us, as you age, things start slowing down or going wrong or shutting down. His healing factor was just as susceptible as anything else to decay and entropy. Once it started going, his body began to reject (or being poisoned by) the adamantium. Logan basically has cancer in this film and is dying a slow, painful death. He just got old. It happens.
But that's neither here nor there. It's made clear that he couldn't heal as well anymore. So it stands to reason he could be killed with his declining healing ability unable to keep up with the injuries.
Does it match up with the Wolverine in the comics? Depends on which writer. Definitely not the stories where that can reform his cells even if he gets blown to bits... like, well, Cell from DBZ. The more grounded stories, certainly. I prefer this film's take on his character. It doesn't matter what your superpower is; eventually time is going to catch up with you.
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