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Post by captainbryce on Feb 2, 2018 20:20:01 GMT
Both of these passages are poetic, but neither of them actually “describes” hell as a literal place. I'm afraid I disagree with that. Well it doesn’t really matter whether you “agree” with me or not. You are factually incorrect! Read the verses again in a different translation from the King James. Better yet, read the Hebrew interlinear. The passages don’t say what you think they say. The fact of the matter is, references to Sheol have nothing to do with the afterlife. Psalms 18:5SheolSemantics. They were references to both (depending on the context). But you’re missing my point. Neither are a reference to an afterlife (conscious existence in hell), nor where the colorful descriptions of them meant to be taken literally for that reason.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 20:39:25 GMT
I'm afraid I disagree with that. Well it doesn’t really matter whether you “agree” with me or not. You are factually incorrect! Read the verses again in a different translation from the King James. Better yet, read the Hebrew interlinear. The passages don’t say what you think they say. The fact of the matter is, references to Sheol have nothing to do with the afterlife. Psalms 18:5SheolSemantics. They were references to both (depending on the context). But you’re missing my point. Neither are a reference to an afterlife (conscious existence in hell), nor where the colorful descriptions of them meant to be taken literally for that reason. Your points are noted, but I disagree. Sorry, nothing personal, I'm just not interested in opening the can of worms of a deep-dive into exegesis.
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 21:28:06 GMT
except maybe Winter who knows everything ORLY? Gee whiz, I thought we had gotten off to a mutually respective start. Well, that was a flippant comment and you say you like a lightness in the discussion. Anyway the truth in it is that whilst I find your views 'enlightening' and novel for a Christian, and largely well and interestingly expressed, there is an element of smug about your comments that grates for me. I guess it is at odds with the agnostic nature of my beliefs that you do seem to have sorted out what you consider the truth, especially about the meaning of the Bible, and will brook no contrary opinions to your own. As an agnostic I accept and even relish the fact that there are some things that cannot be known for sure and that life is a matter of personal growth and learning until the day you die. I guess you are on here discussing stuff, so that is good. You remind me of a born again fundamentalist preacher bible bashing away to his rather recalcitrant followers!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 21:48:28 GMT
ORLY? Gee whiz, I thought we had gotten off to a mutually respective start. Well, that was a flippant comment and you say you like a lightness in the discussion. Anyway the truth in it is that whilst I find your views 'enlightening' and novel for a Christian, and largely well and interestingly expressed, there is an element of smug about your comments that grates for me. I guess it is at odds with the agnostic nature of my beliefs that you do seem to have sorted out what you consider the truth, especially about the meaning of the Bible, and will brook no contrary opinions to your own. As an agnostic I accept and even relish the fact that there are some things that cannot be known for sure and that life is a matter of personal growth and learning until the day you die. I guess you are on here discussing stuff, so that is good. You remind me of a born again fundamentalist preacher bible bashing away to his rather recalcitrant followers! No worries. I come off as smug to most people at most times, especially initially. A few people who have known me a long time still consider me thus. Most who have known me a long time soften their view extraordinarily. I hear this phrase all the time in my life, "When I first me you, I hated you," or the more unfortunate "When I first met you, I thought you hated me." Often people have thought I was angry, because, naturally, I'm a frowner. So I've tried to smile at people more often in person. Likewise, I will take your initial evaluation of my smugness and throw it on the heap, which adds to my desire to improve this weakness of mine. Let's reevaluate down the road and see if your response to me has softened. I'm sorry it grates you. I myself do not like smugness in others. I certainly do enjoy flippant comments. If they are meant flippantly. Was yours meant flippantly or literally? I am certainly stubborn and extremely strong-willed. Sometimes this carries over into my smugness. I consider the former two to be neutral adjectives, for which I hope to use them for great good on earth, but I do accept that these strengths are, at times, kryptonite for me. The latter is never good, so I'll keep working on it. As I say, I am confident in my understanding of the scriptures, but my behavior is and will always be a work in progress.
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 22:27:39 GMT
Well, that was a flippant comment and you say you like a lightness in the discussion. Anyway the truth in it is that whilst I find your views 'enlightening' and novel for a Christian, and largely well and interestingly expressed, there is an element of smug about your comments that grates for me. I guess it is at odds with the agnostic nature of my beliefs that you do seem to have sorted out what you consider the truth, especially about the meaning of the Bible, and will brook no contrary opinions to your own. As an agnostic I accept and even relish the fact that there are some things that cannot be known for sure and that life is a matter of personal growth and learning until the day you die. I guess you are on here discussing stuff, so that is good. You remind me of a born again fundamentalist preacher bible bashing away to his rather recalcitrant followers! No worries. I come off as smug to most people at most times, especially initially. A few people who have known me a long time still consider me thus. Most who have known me a long time soften their view extraordinarily. I hear this phrase all the time in my life, "When I first me you, I hated you," or the more unfortunate "When I first met you, I thought you hated me." Often people have thought I was angry, because, naturally, I'm a frowner. So I've tried to smile at people more often in person. Likewise, I will take your initial evaluation of my smugness and throw it on the heap, which adds to my desire to improve this weakness of mine. Let's reevaluate down the road and see if your response to me has softened. I'm sorry it grates you. I myself do not like smugness in others. I certainly do enjoy flippant comments. If they are meant flippantly. Was yours meant flippantly or literally? I am certainly stubborn and extremely strong-willed. Sometimes this carries over into my smugness. I consider the former two to be neutral adjectives, for which I hope to use them for great good on earth, but I do accept that these strengths are, at times, kryptonite for me. The latter is never good, so I'll keep working on it. As I say, I am confident in my understanding of the scriptures, but my behavior is and will always be a work in progress. I would call it a flippantly sarcastic comment which in some ways sums me up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:35:20 GMT
No worries. I come off as smug to most people at most times, especially initially. A few people who have known me a long time still consider me thus. Most who have known me a long time soften their view extraordinarily. I hear this phrase all the time in my life, "When I first me you, I hated you," or the more unfortunate "When I first met you, I thought you hated me." Often people have thought I was angry, because, naturally, I'm a frowner. So I've tried to smile at people more often in person. Likewise, I will take your initial evaluation of my smugness and throw it on the heap, which adds to my desire to improve this weakness of mine. Let's reevaluate down the road and see if your response to me has softened. I'm sorry it grates you. I myself do not like smugness in others. I certainly do enjoy flippant comments. If they are meant flippantly. Was yours meant flippantly or literally? I am certainly stubborn and extremely strong-willed. Sometimes this carries over into my smugness. I consider the former two to be neutral adjectives, for which I hope to use them for great good on earth, but I do accept that these strengths are, at times, kryptonite for me. The latter is never good, so I'll keep working on it. As I say, I am confident in my understanding of the scriptures, but my behavior is and will always be a work in progress. I would call it a flippantly sarcastic comment which in some ways sums me up. You'll be keeping me on my toes, duly noted.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 2, 2018 22:41:21 GMT
Well it doesn’t really matter whether you “agree” with me or not. You are factually incorrect! Read the verses again in a different translation from the King James. Better yet, read the Hebrew interlinear. The passages don’t say what you think they say. The fact of the matter is, references to Sheol have nothing to do with the afterlife. Psalms 18:5SheolSemantics. They were references to both (depending on the context). But you’re missing my point. Neither are a reference to an afterlife (conscious existence in hell), nor where the colorful descriptions of them meant to be taken literally for that reason. Your points are noted, but I disagree. Sorry, nothing personal, I'm just not interested in opening the can of worms of a deep-dive into exegesis. Fair enough. I appreciate you admitting that at least.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:47:24 GMT
Your points are noted, but I disagree. Sorry, nothing personal, I'm just not interested in opening the can of worms of a deep-dive into exegesis. Fair enough. I appreciate you admitting that at least. Exegesis arguments are just soooo boring and sooooo long. I'd rather argue philosophy any day. This reminds me of etymology and the paper I had to write back in paper about how the word "silly" used to mean "smart" and how the word "smart" used to mean "silly." Which isn't to say I'm conflating etymology with exegesis, but neither are the reasons I went into Communications
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