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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 3:51:17 GMT
I haven't posted this thread on this Board, only on the old one and it turned out quite an interesting thread.
As an agnostic atheist some people might think I don't engage in 'spirituality' because they limit the meaning of the term to 'the Holy Spirit', or some such.
The dictionary I found defines it ( without the more obvious religious connotations )
as
spiritual
ˈspɪrɪtʃʊəl,ˈspɪrɪtjʊəl/
adjective
adjective: spiritual
1.
relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
synonyms:
non-material, inner, psychic, psychical, psychological; incorporeal, intangible, other-worldly, unworldly, ethereal; transcendent, mystic, mystical, numinous, metaphysical; rare extramundane, immaterial
"the spiritual dimension of human experience"
and I really like that phrase 'relating to or affecting the human spirit'.
For me in my experience, it relates to the things that I don't fully understand.
I have a healthy respect for the sciences and humans have so far made great advances in understanding the natural and physical world, butt to me 'spiritual' goes further than that to encompass the things that I/we don't understand fully.
If I was to sum it up simply ( though it is possibly the most complex human idea ) I would say that it encompasses the very things that make us 'human' such as love, empathy, beauty, music, language, writing, art, service, learning, connecting and experiencing.
I eagerly await your comments. It is after all, a board on religion and faith as well, so feel free to explain how your faith or religion might fit into what comments I have made above, though personally I haven't found faith or religion personally of any deep and meaningful value. If you intend to just come on here and say...well that is everything that god is....I would require a slightly more intellectual approach, please.
Personally I explore my spirituality through a slightly 'Buddhist' means of contemplation and self improvement through all the things I mentioned above ie love, empathy, beauty, music, language, writing, art, service, learning, connecting and experiencing, because it is those things that make my life worthwhile, even though the trials and tribulations of everyday existence often get in the way.
What say you?
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 31, 2018 5:45:40 GMT
I just think of spiritual as being our first-hand psychological experience of being human. I don't think it's anything non-physical.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 31, 2018 15:38:30 GMT
A buzzword I saw being used as a corny pickup line by broey dbags to entice insecure Catholic girls into premarital sex.
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Post by general313 on Jan 31, 2018 15:56:14 GMT
"Spiritual" has its uses as an adjective, as a vague description of aesthetic qualities, on a similar level as "poetic". The noun form is another matter; while there is such a thing as a poem, a spirit is a fictional entity.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 15:58:20 GMT
The word "spiritual" represents the natural essence of all created things.
It is the flesh that is the supernatural.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 31, 2018 16:08:37 GMT
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:04:16 GMT
I just think of spiritual as being our first-hand psychological experience of being human. I don't think it's anything non-physical. Interesting. Would I be presumptuous to suggest then, that such words as consciousness and sentience are synonyms for your understanding of 'spiritual'? My other comment is that the manifestations of the things which I mentioned, love et al are not physical, however I suppose you could say that as they are seated in our brain and experience, psychologically ( through our physical senses) do you mean that?
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:06:17 GMT
A buzzword I saw being used as a corny pickup line by broey dbags to entice insecure Catholic girls into premarital sex. Wow! LOL You seriously have to explain that more. Are you suggesting that said 'broey dbags' actually said sex was 'spiritual'? Again LOL.
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:11:01 GMT
"Spiritual" has its uses as an adjective, as a vague description of aesthetic qualities, on a similar level as "poetic". The noun form is another matter; while there is such a thing as a poem, a spirit is a fictional entity. Interesting semantic slant. What in your view, could you use the adjective 'spiritual' to describe that would be apt? What kind of things can be described as spiritual, and what might that in mean in that context? What asthetic qualitites make up a description of spiritual, and why?
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:13:54 GMT
The word "spiritual" represents the natural essence of all created things. It is the flesh that is the supernatural. Thankyou for your thoughtful answer. You are going to have to explain it a little more for me please, especially the that' the flesh is supernatural'. To me that is counter intuitive.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 31, 2018 20:17:45 GMT
To refer to the spiritual in my mind is to refer to how I feel about and work on the way I fit into the universe, both in a metaphysical sense and in a sense of how I feel about it and what I do to make my self feel more comfortable within myself.
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:23:15 GMT
To refer to the spiritual in my mind is to refer to how I feel about and work on the way I fit into the universe, both in a metaphysical sense and in a sense of how I feel about it and what I do to make my self feel more comfortable within myself. That is really fascinating and I can completely understand/agree with those thoughts. Many have described it as a search for meaning on a personal level. It is actually, as I said before, quite a Buddhist concept. When I have written about this before, I have described it as being a personal search from the inside, as opposed to an acceptance of an 'imposition' of an outside creation/structure in which to fit myself, which is what I see in organised faith and religion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 20:24:33 GMT
The word "spiritual" represents the natural essence of all created things. It is the flesh that is the supernatural. Thankyou for your thoughtful answer. You are going to have to explain it a little more for me please, especially the that' the flesh is supernatural'. To me that is counter intuitive. It appears so. But I believe that the first life essence created was spiritual. The second life essence created was flesh. So, simply put, what came first is the natural and what came after existed in a different dimension altogether, thus, it is the supernatural. To compound this, I believe that the supernatural (the flesh) will carry on into the natural (the spirit) world upon death and will exist in this format eternally. So it seems more honest to me to consider that which was first and also eternal the "natural order of things" as opposed to that which was second, created adverse to what existed before and that only exists for a relatively short period of time. I realize my point of view doesn't jibe with the classic definition of the word "supernatural," but bear in mind, the definition was given in the flesh, by the flesh and for the flesh. But that goes back to what I think is a major problem. Too many people define the world from the inside out rather than the outside in. I for one don't look at the human story through the lens of humans.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 31, 2018 20:26:06 GMT
To refer to the spiritual in my mind is to refer to how I feel about and work on the way I fit into the universe, both in a metaphysical sense and in a sense of how I feel about it and what I do to make my self feel more comfortable within myself. That is really fascinating and I can completely understand/agree with those thoughts. Many have described it as a search for meaning on a personal level. It is actually, as I said before, quite a Buddhist concept. When I have written about this before, I have described it as being a personal search from the inside, as opposed to an acceptance of an 'imposition' of an outside creation/structure in which to fit myself, which is what I see in organised faith and religion. Interestingly I think is is also quite a Christian concept, but many Christians have lost sight of it and pay lip service to theology not growth.
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 31, 2018 20:27:30 GMT
Depends on the day of the week! Sometimes, “spiritual” means:
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:27:58 GMT
If you look at the fruits of someone other than their words you get the truth. I don't know how you want to relate this to spiritual butt it is a great truism.
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 20:33:03 GMT
Thankyou for your thoughtful answer. You are going to have to explain it a little more for me please, especially the that' the flesh is supernatural'. To me that is counter intuitive. It appears so. But I believe that the first life essence created was spiritual. The second life essence created was flesh. So, simply put, what came first is the natural and what came after existed in a different dimension altogether, thus, it is the supernatural. To compound this, I believe that the supernatural (the flesh) will carry on into the natural (the spirit) world upon death and will exist in this format eternally. So it seems more honest to me to consider that which was first and also eternal the "natural order of things" as opposed to that which was second, created adverse to what existed before and that only exists for a relatively short period of time. I realize my point of view doesn't jibe with the classic definition of the word "supernatural," but bear in mind, the definition was given in the flesh, by the flesh and for the flesh. But that goes back to what I think is a major problem. Too many people define the world from the inside out rather than the outside in. I for one don't look at the human story through the lens of humans. I find you very interesting to talk to for the very reason that you are not a 'conventional' Christian and I don't want to pigeonhole you. Before we discuss further, these unusual concepts, may I ask whether you believe in evolution?
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Post by general313 on Jan 31, 2018 20:33:48 GMT
"Spiritual" has its uses as an adjective, as a vague description of aesthetic qualities, on a similar level as "poetic". The noun form is another matter; while there is such a thing as a poem, a spirit is a fictional entity. Interesting semantic slant. What in your view, could you use the adjective 'spiritual' to describe that would be apt? What kind of things can be described as spiritual, and what might that in mean in that context? What asthetic qualitites make up a description of spiritual, and why? Music is one of the things that comes to mind. Spiritual music can run the range from anything that gives you goosebumps and inspires awe to something that makes you ponder your existence, mortality or place in the universe. I suppose this use is metaphorical and I think pretty commonly used, and the word must have originally had a superstitious literal meaning.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 20:52:37 GMT
It appears so. But I believe that the first life essence created was spiritual. The second life essence created was flesh. So, simply put, what came first is the natural and what came after existed in a different dimension altogether, thus, it is the supernatural. To compound this, I believe that the supernatural (the flesh) will carry on into the natural (the spirit) world upon death and will exist in this format eternally. So it seems more honest to me to consider that which was first and also eternal the "natural order of things" as opposed to that which was second, created adverse to what existed before and that only exists for a relatively short period of time. I realize my point of view doesn't jibe with the classic definition of the word "supernatural," but bear in mind, the definition was given in the flesh, by the flesh and for the flesh. But that goes back to what I think is a major problem. Too many people define the world from the inside out rather than the outside in. I for one don't look at the human story through the lens of humans. I find you very interesting to talk to for the very reason that you are not a 'conventional' Christian and I don't want to pigeonhole you. Before we discuss further, these unusual concepts, may I ask whether you believe in evolution? You may indeed. I believe in "evolution." Species evolve and they evolve so rapidly that I have seen evidence in my own lifetime. I do not believe in "Evolution." That is to say, I believe in the literal creation story Genesis presents. I believe angels have sex. I believe there's no reason to believe I won't have sex in the afterlife. I believe in half-human/half-angel beings called nephilim. I don't go to church. Like, even at Christmas. I think it's a sin to blaspheme, I think it's a sin to curse someone ("damn you" or "go to hell"). I think it's a sin to use "obscene" language around certain people who will find it offensive, but I don't think "obscene" words are inherently sinful. For instance, I would never use the word "fuck" around my mom, because she'd be flabbergasted. And I try to never use it around strange women in a sexual manner, because I think that's inappropriate. But I'll certainly say "I have a fucking headache" in front of any woman who I know from previous experience will not be offended by the use of that word. Because the word itself is fine. Just like with blasphemy, it's all in how you use it that determines its worth. Yeah, I am a little different. I don't curtail to Christian norms. I've read the Bible (several times) and I know what it says. And so all I'm trying to do is follow it as best I can whilst respecting those who have not read it or have read it and do not believe it. I really couldn't care less what a church teaches, what a denomination teaches or what anybody else thinks about how I'm supposed to live. I follow the Word of God and only the Word of God. And if it isn't in the Word of God and if I can't overwhelmingly infer something about life from the Word of God, then it gets a pass. Beyond the rules given to me in the text, I have as much fun as I can. Thus, I front a working rock band and I drink in moderation.
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 21:08:00 GMT
Interesting semantic slant. What in your view, could you use the adjective 'spiritual' to describe that would be apt? What kind of things can be described as spiritual, and what might that in mean in that context? What asthetic qualitites make up a description of spiritual, and why? Music is one of the things that comes to mind. Spiritual music can run the range from anything that gives you goosebumps and inspires awe to something that makes you ponder your existence, mortality or place in the universe. I suppose this use is metaphorical and I think pretty commonly used, and the word must have originally had a superstitious literal meaning. I see where you are going with this especially "Spiritual music can run the range from anything that gives you goosebumps and inspires awe to something that makes you ponder your existence, mortality or place in the universe. " and yes, it does seem metaphorical. The danger is semantically that many people would only use the term 'spiritual' for music in the sense of religious music, even Negro spirituals which are religious. I much prefer your usage as it is less specific and more general and means the same thing in a secular context,
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