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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 2:39:14 GMT
That is chief Brexit negotiator. Remeber we said that was the aim of the EU and remainers told us we were stupid?
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 8, 2018 2:54:53 GMT
Wrong board man. Politics is over there! 😴
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 4:09:33 GMT
Wrong board man. Politics is over there! 😴 Yeah, we have never gone off topic here....
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 8, 2018 4:30:24 GMT
Wrong board man. Politics is over there! 😴 Meh, I don't blame him for not wanting to post there, they might as well just change the name to "Trump Board"
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 8, 2018 5:51:14 GMT
tpfkar
That is chief Brexit negotiator. Remeber we said that was the aim of the EU and remainers told us we were stupid? Well the UK's no longer in there to slow it down. And hasn't there always been factions that wanted it? Maybe some of it is nose-thumbing ₍ₚᵢ₎ as well. oh dear
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Post by phludowin on Feb 8, 2018 6:48:14 GMT
From a British point of view, Guy Verhofstadt is a foreigner. And Brexiters hate him.
Do you have a point?
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Post by Winter_King on Feb 8, 2018 9:45:56 GMT
That is chief Brexit negotiator. Remeber we said that was the aim of the EU and remainers told us we were stupid? That the goal of the EU was the United States of Europe? Well... yeah. But it's not like they are hiding this fact. Federal Europe has always been the goal. Even Churchill called for it (of course he expected the British Empire to remain outside). That doesn't mean it's happening soon.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 8, 2018 12:11:53 GMT
etc etc
While Thor's rhetorical question is full of his usual provocative hyperbole, there is no doubt that feelings towards 'the other', whether described through race or religion have grown much worse of late, not helped by the emotions around Brexit. It certainly hasn't help the struggle against xeno- and Islamophobia, for instance, or the feelings of east Europeans here about their future. Personally I think the more united Europe is, the better - at least it will keep Germany and France from ever fighting again - one of the main intentions of the original set-up of the European Community. It is just a shame that the UK will have to stand outside, determined now to be outside the customs union, so working through tariffs and yet (it looks like) obeying all the EU rules of commercial engagement anyway, but without a say in the matter. But hey, with the authority of the House of Lords over UK legislation, at least, er, we won't have to put up with unelected bureaucrats eh? Britain's veto is gone too, so look forward to things like the European army in due course. Looking forward, too, to that early, quick trade deal with Donald "America First" Trump...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 13:27:01 GMT
A lot of people voted for Brexit because they hated foreigners, but it certainly wasn't the only motivation for it. In any case, I think that a united Europe is a great idea, and I'm going to be annoyed if Britain misses out because of a campaign filled with lies, combined with the bigotries of little Englanders.
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 20:41:16 GMT
etc etc While Thor's rhetorical question is full of his usual provocative hyperbole, there is no doubt that feelings towards 'the other', whether described through race or religion have grown much worse of late, not helped by the emotions around Brexit. It certainly hasn't help the struggle against xeno- and Islamophobia, for instance, or the feelings of east Europeans here about their future. Personally I think the more united Europe is, the better - at least it will keep Germany and France from ever fighting again - one of the main intentions of the original set-up of the European Community. It is just a shame that the UK will have to stand outside, determined now to be outside the customs union, so working through tariffs and yet (it looks like) obeying all the EU rules of commercial engagement anyway, but without a say in the matter. But hey, with the authority of the House of Lords over UK legislation, at least, er, we won't have to put up with unelected bureaucrats eh? Britain's veto is gone too, so look forward to things like the European army in due course. Looking forward, too, to that early, quick trade deal with Donald "America First" Trump... We've been through this Flim Flam. A report of hate crime is not actually proof of anything since it doesn't have to be proven or even reported to the police. Or did you think I forgot that? The fact that hate crime "spiked" isn't the argument you think it is..... And if the EU wants an army it can have one. If it wants a single nation it can have one. But the UK won't be part of it. Good eh?
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 20:43:02 GMT
A lot of people voted for Brexit because they hated foreigners, but it certainly wasn't the only motivation for it. In any case, I think that a united Europe is a great idea, and I'm going to be annoyed if Britain misses out because of a campaign filled with lies, combined with the bigotries of little Englanders. I refuse to cede democracy. Everything British will have to be sacrificed. I'm not prepared to see that happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 20:45:24 GMT
etc etc While Thor's rhetorical question is full of his usual provocative hyperbole, there is no doubt that feelings towards 'the other', whether described through race or religion have grown much worse of late, not helped by the emotions around Brexit. It certainly hasn't help the struggle against xeno- and Islamophobia, for instance, or the feelings of east Europeans here about their future. Personally I think the more united Europe is, the better - at least it will keep Germany and France from ever fighting again - one of the main intentions of the original set-up of the European Community. It is just a shame that the UK will have to stand outside, determined now to be outside the customs union, so working through tariffs and yet (it looks like) obeying all the EU rules of commercial engagement anyway, but without a say in the matter. But hey, with the authority of the House of Lords over UK legislation, at least, er, we won't have to put up with unelected bureaucrats eh? Britain's veto is gone too, so look forward to things like the European army in due course. Looking forward, too, to that early, quick trade deal with Donald "America First" Trump... We've been through this Flim Flam. A report of hate crime is not actually proof of anything since it doesn't have to be proven or even reported to the police. Or did you think I forgot that? The fact that hate crime "spiked" isn't the argument you think it is..... And if the EU wants an army it can have one. If it wants a single nation it can have one. But the UK won't be part of it. Good eh? Without the Brits in this hypothetical EU army, what would an EU army be good at besides surrender anyway? You take Great Britain out of the equation and an EU army is about as intimidating as a croissant.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 20:47:49 GMT
A lot of people voted for Brexit because they hated foreigners, but it certainly wasn't the only motivation for it. In any case, I think that a united Europe is a great idea, and I'm going to be annoyed if Britain misses out because of a campaign filled with lies, combined with the bigotries of little Englanders. I refuse to cede democracy. Everything British will have to be sacrificed. I'm not prepared to see that happen. As well you shouldn't. I was horrified when you guys did it in the first place, but I knew it wouldn't last. The only thing it's good for is slowing down an economy, weakening defense and eradicating national borders.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 20:50:50 GMT
The only people who cry for unions where culture and language dictate that none should exist are those who are patently weak and want to borrow strength from the strong.
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 21:12:24 GMT
We've been through this Flim Flam. A report of hate crime is not actually proof of anything since it doesn't have to be proven or even reported to the police. Or did you think I forgot that? The fact that hate crime "spiked" isn't the argument you think it is..... And if the EU wants an army it can have one. If it wants a single nation it can have one. But the UK won't be part of it. Good eh? Without the Brits in this hypothetical EU army, what would an EU army be good at besides surrender anyway? You take Great Britain out of the equation and an EU army is about as intimidating as a croissant. The Europeans have hidden behind the American Armed Forces since the end of the Second World War. Of the major powers, only the UK has maintained its NATO spending obligation. France is the only real other military power, which means that the EU is going to have to vastly increase spending on its armed forces. Its current combined carrier fleet would have about the same capability as a single Ford Class carrier with disadvantage of not being a homogeneous force.
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Post by thorshairspray on Feb 8, 2018 21:14:05 GMT
I refuse to cede democracy. Everything British will have to be sacrificed. I'm not prepared to see that happen. As well you shouldn't. I was horrified when you guys did it in the first place, but I knew it wouldn't last. The only thing it's good for is slowing down an economy, weakening defense and eradicating national borders. True. I do like the argument that the EU has kept the peace for 50 years....as if NATO and the Soviet Union were not things....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 21:23:20 GMT
Without the Brits in this hypothetical EU army, what would an EU army be good at besides surrender anyway? You take Great Britain out of the equation and an EU army is about as intimidating as a croissant. The Europeans have hidden behind the American Armed Forces since the end of the Second World War. Of the major powers, only the UK has maintained its NATO spending obligation. France is the only real other military power, which means that the EU is going to have to vastly increase spending on its armed forces. Its current combined carrier fleet would have about the same capability as a single Ford Class carrier with disadvantage of not being a homogeneous force. Lol at that. A kind euphemism on your part. Let's put it this way: an honest to goodness war between the combined "might" of the EU and Great Britain would last about as long as your campaign against Argentina lasted. The only difference is that you'd hear a dozen different phrases of surrender instead of one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 21:24:41 GMT
As well you shouldn't. I was horrified when you guys did it in the first place, but I knew it wouldn't last. The only thing it's good for is slowing down an economy, weakening defense and eradicating national borders. True. I do like the argument that the EU has kept the peace for 50 years....as if NATO and the Soviet Union were not things.... Ha, easy to keep the peace when you're willing to let everyone rape you.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Feb 8, 2018 23:14:11 GMT
The one thing I'm taking a bit of solice from the whole Brexit thing is that the areas of the country that tended to me most in favour of Brexit are the ones are the ones that are going to be hardest hit by the economic downturn following Brexit.
In other words - the reason that North of England has a sh!t economy isn't because of the EU or immigration, it's because they can't get over the fact that developed western nations can't do basic heavy industry as cheaply as third world countries and they need to find smarter ways to earn a living rather than just blaming everyone else.
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 8, 2018 23:20:21 GMT
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