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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 9, 2018 16:05:18 GMT
eh, arguing with whiny farmboy Luke is a mere beside-the-point deflection and confirms the point.
It's completely irrelevant whether or not Luke was altruistic at the beginning of his journey, we saw him being just that at the end of his hero's journey, ready to sacrifice himself for his friends & family.
That was the complete opposite of what we saw in TLJ, so this crass character change needed proper character development and explanantion. Which was not given in TLJ or TFA. Punkt!
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 9, 2018 22:37:54 GMT
Not true. Luke kept asking Owen and Beru if he could go join the Rebellion and fight the Empire. They had a whole scene about it: He's talking about the IMPERIAL Academy. No, he wasn't. Here's the dialogue from the tail-end of the scene: Owen: "You must understand I need you here, Luke."
Luke: "But it's a whole 'nother year!"
Owen: "Look, it's only one more season."
"Yeah..." Luke rises from the table. "That's what you said last year when Biggs and Tank left."Biggs didn't join the Imperial Academy - he joined the Rebellion. Luke wanted to be with his friends and help the Rebellion. It was only after Uncle Owen tells him that he needs him there on the farm, that Luke reluctantly tells Obi-Wan he can't go with him on his journey. Then when his uncle and aunt die, his plans change...
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 9, 2018 23:46:52 GMT
He's talking about the IMPERIAL Academy. No, he wasn't. Here's the dialogue from the tail-end of the scene: Owen: "You must understand I need you here, Luke."
Luke: "But it's a whole 'nother year!"
Owen: "Look, it's only one more season."
"Yeah..." Luke rises from the table. "That's what you said last year when Biggs and Tank left."Biggs didn't join the Imperial Academy - he joined the Rebellion. Luke wanted to be with his friends and help the Rebellion. It was only after Uncle Owen tells him that he needs him there on the farm, that Luke reluctantly tells Obi-Wan he can't go with him on his journey. Then when his uncle and aunt die, his plans change... In all that highlighting and underlining, couldn't you just do a Wookieepedia search? Biggs joined the Imperial Academy and later defected. I don't think there even is a Rebel Academy...they're rebels. Luke, at this point, doesn't care about the conflict and just wants to get off Tatooine by any means necessary.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 10, 2018 3:42:44 GMT
In all that highlighting and underlining, couldn't you just do a Wookieepedia search? Biggs joined the Imperial Academy and later defected. I don't think there even is a Rebel Academy...they're rebels. Luke, at this point, doesn't care about the conflict and just wants to get off Tatooine by any means necessary. I don't consider Wookieepedia to be a legitimate source. However, the official Star Wars website does back-up what you just stated. Interesting. I concede then - you're right. I say this genuinely. Thinking on it... there's even a deleted scene between Luke and Biggs where Biggs states he's about to change sides to the Rebellion:
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 10, 2018 3:53:46 GMT
In all that highlighting and underlining, couldn't you just do a Wookieepedia search? Biggs joined the Imperial Academy and later defected. I don't think there even is a Rebel Academy...they're rebels. Luke, at this point, doesn't care about the conflict and just wants to get off Tatooine by any means necessary. I did go full David Prowse there, didn't I?
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Post by thenewnexus on Mar 16, 2018 14:39:52 GMT
They ruined Luke in this movie
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 15:17:23 GMT
They ruined Luke in this movie he was ruined in TFA already with him letting the same shit happen again and instead of fighting and redeeming letting the Emire rise again and fleeing to an island. That is complete crap.
Ryan just shat it out what was already there.
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Post by thenewnexus on Mar 16, 2018 15:37:10 GMT
They ruined Luke in this movie he was ruined in TFA already with him letting the same shit happen again and instead of fighting and redeeming letting the Emire rise again and fleeing to an island. That is complete crap.
Ryan just shat it out what was already there.
You are right the damage was done in TFA
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 16, 2018 15:39:56 GMT
he was ruined in TFA already with him letting the same shit happen again and instead of fighting and redeeming letting the Emire rise again and fleeing to an island. That is complete crap.
Ryan just shat it out what was already there.
You are right the damage was done in TFA dude, and your were always right on Kat. But don't tell the others I admitted it.
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Post by leesilm on Apr 9, 2018 16:13:08 GMT
When I read the title-- I thought you were referring to the, "From a certain point of view" scene in ROTJ. Cause that is the scene I reference when I talk about what happened with Luke in the TLJ flashback scene.
From Luke's perspective: he had an instinctual flash of rage/fear/protectiveness when he saw inside his nephew's heart. The guy who got snippy with Han about "I'm not a bad pilot myself" in the cantina, nearly got shot for freezing up when Obi-wan was killed, who took on Vader single-handedly to try to save his friends in ESB, and who was able to control his anger in ROTJ after having reluctantly raised his lightsaber against his own father when his twin sister was threatened. And I think he hated himself because he had let himself be overtaken by all the old Jedi teachings, rather than allowing himself to the hopeful man he once was, and because of this lapse, his nephew's conversion to the Dark Side was made complete. So not only did he fail to be true to himself, he failed Leia's trust, Han's trust, and Ben's trust. And, Luke has had years to torture himself with that, to think of all the ways he messed up, all the things he did wrong, all the ways he failed. From Krybaby Ren's perspective: The man he looked up to and who Snoke had been whispering about, had given up on him and raised his blade against his own flesh and blood. Then, over the years, Snoke turned that to, 'the great Jedi master, savior of the galaxy, grew jealous of how powerful you were and he sought to remove you from the galaxy because he feared that power'. If Snoke is capable of forcing a Force-Link and of implanting memories/visions, it can't be an impossible leap that he could tweak Kylo's memories/understanding of what happened that night with Luke.
Honestly, I don't think we can wholly trust either man's account of that night. When two people experience something traumatic and explosive like that, there's usually Person A's perspective, Person B's perspective, and the Truth somewhere in the middle. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Luke raised the lightsaber, but didn't actually ignite it, then Ben woke. He saw the way Luke was lowering his weapon, and he is the one who reacted by pulling up his own lightsaber and bringing down the roof on Luke's head.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 21:03:54 GMT
Honestly, I don't think we can wholly trust either man's account of that night. When two people experience something traumatic and explosive like that, there's usually Person A's perspective, Person B's perspective, and the Truth somewhere in the middle. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Luke raised the lightsaber, but didn't actually ignite it, then Ben woke. He saw the way Luke was lowering his weapon, and he is the one who reacted by pulling up his own lightsaber and bringing down the roof on Luke's head. Both perspectives completely suck.
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Post by leesilm on Apr 10, 2018 5:11:26 GMT
Honestly, I don't think we can wholly trust either man's account of that night. When two people experience something traumatic and explosive like that, there's usually Person A's perspective, Person B's perspective, and the Truth somewhere in the middle. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Luke raised the lightsaber, but didn't actually ignite it, then Ben woke. He saw the way Luke was lowering his weapon, and he is the one who reacted by pulling up his own lightsaber and bringing down the roof on Luke's head. Both perspectives completely suck. I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 10, 2018 10:04:41 GMT
Both perspectives completely suck. I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise. he was the most blue-eyed TFA-fan hailing it without end in good faith and fighting the detractors 24/7.
TLJ broke him inside as he realized he was instrumentalized to waste years of his life promoting a mystery box just filled with dangling carrots rotting.
A man cannot defend the frontline when all they supply you with are blanks while selling ammo to the enemy.
The rest is bitterness.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 14:18:59 GMT
Both perspectives completely suck. I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise. Are you sure? I've posted about twenty neutral items on the Star Wars general board. I've posted about a dozen negative thoughts on the Han Solo board. I've posted probably hundreds of positive thoughts on the The Force Awakens board. Almost no negative comments. I hate The Last Jedi with a passion, so yes, I've posted here hundreds of times and they have all been scathing remarks because the movie is a complete fuck up. Amateurs couldn't have done worse than these fuck ups managed. But you are right about one thing: a good word from me is high praise indeed. No fluff here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 14:20:23 GMT
I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise. he was the most blue-eyed TFA-fan hailing it without end in good faith and fighting the detractors 24/7.
TLJ broke him inside as he realized he was instrumentalized to waste years of his life promoting a mystery box just filled with dangling carrots rotting.
A man cannot defend the frontline when all they supply you with are blanks while selling ammo to the enemy.
The rest is bitterness.
Yeah, that's about it in a nutshell. This part is literally true and makes me downright angry.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 15:09:07 GMT
I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise. he was the most blue-eyed TFA-fan hailing it without end in good faith and fighting the detractors 24/7.
TLJ broke him inside as he realized he was instrumentalized to waste years of his life promoting a mystery box just filled with dangling carrots rotting.
A man cannot defend the frontline when all they supply you with are blanks while selling ammo to the enemy.
The rest is bitterness.
"Blue-eyed." I don't know if I've heard that one before, but I'm going to use it. I actually have blue eyes, too.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 10, 2018 15:37:21 GMT
he was the most blue-eyed TFA-fan hailing it without end in good faith and fighting the detractors 24/7.
TLJ broke him inside as he realized he was instrumentalized to waste years of his life promoting a mystery box just filled with dangling carrots rotting.
A man cannot defend the frontline when all they supply you with are blanks while selling ammo to the enemy.
The rest is bitterness.
"Blue-eyed." I don't know if I've heard that one before, but I'm going to use it. I actually have blue eyes, too. well, it's a Germanism I transposed into English assuming it meant the same: "blauäugig" (blue-eyed like eg a baby) meaning naive and full of trust. The English-language pendant would likely be "starry-eyed" or similar.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 15:51:09 GMT
"Blue-eyed." I don't know if I've heard that one before, but I'm going to use it. I actually have blue eyes, too. well, it's a Germanism I transposed into English assuming it meant the same: "blauäugig" (blue-eyed like eg a baby) meaning naive and full of trust. The English-language pendant would likely be "starry-eyed" or similar.
Hey! Are you saying I was naive? Well...you...are....right!
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 10, 2018 16:21:37 GMT
well, it's a Germanism I transposed into English assuming it meant the same: "blauäugig" (blue-eyed like eg a baby) meaning naive and full of trust. The English-language pendant would likely be "starry-eyed" or similar.
Hey! Are you saying I was naive? Well...you...are....right! eh I invested into 6 seasons of Lost due to JJ's mystery box promise, I wasn't happy when it was opened. Never again.
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Post by leesilm on Apr 11, 2018 1:31:43 GMT
I don't mean to get off-topic or sound grouchy, I'm just genuinely curious about something and too lazy to go be a stalker (& I have slow internet). But WintersSuicide, it seems like every time I read a comment of yours on a board I'm scrolling through or engaged in, you dislike the movie, you say something sucks, etc. Do you ever have anything positive to post? Critiquing is fine, we all need it and such. Just curious, as I said. I feel like a good word from you is high praise. Are you sure? I've posted about twenty neutral items on the Star Wars general board. I've posted about a dozen negative thoughts on the Han Solo board. I've posted probably hundreds of positive thoughts on the The Force Awakens board. Almost no negative comments. I hate The Last Jedi with a passion, so yes, I've posted here hundreds of times and they have all been scathing remarks because the movie is a complete fuck up. Amateurs couldn't have done worse than these fuck ups managed. But you are right about one thing: a good word from me is high praise indeed. No fluff here. Like I said, too lazy to go about reading all your posts. I just was curious. I admit, I wasn't on the FORCE AWAKENS stuff as much as I've been on the LAST JEDI & SOLO stuff, so that's probably why I missed a lot of your happy posts. I've got a fanfic going, myself, that whenever I finish, will possibly end up being a re-write of the new trilogy, although the original motivation was a suggest (not made by me) of what would happen if a particular EU character had been raised beside Luke Skywalker, how that would have changed ANH/TESB/ROTJ, then I decided to also add TFA and I may be adding TLJ, if I'm not too STAR WARS fatigued when I'm done with the TFA chapters. It seems though, that a lot of people are doing "fix it" fanfiction or absolute re-writes. No worries on that account- one of my best friends in the world, is the same, possibly more severe actually. His saying, "The movie was decent" means everyone else will think it just shy of a masterpiece. He mourns the days of true critics who talked about style, pacing, acting, direction, score, costume design, motifs, thematic direction, and all sorts of more high-brow stuff about movie-making besides if the actors were hot, how many explosions there were, how many million it made opening weekend, etc. I have to agree with him, a lot of the time. I mean, I think he can be a little hard sometimes, but overall he's got a lot of good points. But there is definitely something to be said for expecting more of movies than explosions, hot babes, loud music, and how many sequels can be churned out of it.
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