Post by stargazer1682 on Feb 21, 2018 2:27:12 GMT
So what are people's thoughts on the latest episode of Legends?
The time-loop/Groundhog Day premise is a fairly tried and true premise for many shows, particularly those with a sci-fi bent. I'm ambivalent about this one, there were parts I thought were decent, but other parts were a little too hokey, yet par for Legends of Tomorrow.
I like the idea that Mick is writing a half-way decent romance novel; and while a bit over the top, I did laugh at Zari using cue cards during Mick and Ray's discussion in the laundry room.
The ending was almost good; I think if Zari had actually sacrificed herself, and maybe been brought back later somehow, as part of the culmination of the overarching story, it could have made an otherwise lackluster episode more important. I figured the goo she got covered in at the beginning would come back to play somehow, but wasn't expecting them to go the "it was all a dream" route, and that the goo was toxic. Kind of seems like a design flaw to be so easily exposed; and I can't imagine what that stuff really was, but I felt bad for Tala Ashe when it got in her mouth. That stuff made her teeth glow....
I have some other thoughts on Gideon's role in everything, that I'm going to post in another thread.
On the whole, I don't think it cleared the bar set by the many other episodes of this format. They didn't seem to use the repetition to its fullest advantage, like other shows do.
The TNG episode, Cause and Effect, which Ray mentions, is a good one; which plays the entire episode straight, which is fine. It's a solid episode, there's no single character that has the outside perspective, but they all manage to slowly put the pieces of the puzzle together; plus it adds Kelsey Grammar to the ranks of Star Trek alumni.
I had I forgot about the Eureka episode, I Do Over, until looking up time loop episodes to refresh my memory; and I'm disappointed I had forgotten it, because that's another good episode. And that one actually doesn't pull any punches with it's ending.
I don't know how many people watch The Librarians, which often hovers around Legends quality level of writing, especially the last few seasons, but The Point of Salvation was their take on the time loop premise, with them actually finding themselves
My favorite might be the SG1 episode, Window of Opportunity. That one mixes humor and the more serious tones; and there's just so much that's great about it. From Jack snapping back to Daniel asking a question that he wasn't paying attention to the first time, always eating his fruit loops, to Teal'c's snap back point being a door slamming in his face; the two of them learning to juggle, hitting golf balls through the gate, and also them needing to learn and retain the translations, because nothing else makes it through the loop.
In the end it all comes down to the question of what the past means to us, and what it would mean to experience the same life over and over again if you can't make any meaningful impact on what you witness.
I think that last part really hits at the heart of something that bugs me about not only this episode of Legends, but arguably all of them. This year and last they're so concerned about protecting and fixing history - never mind that it was basically the exact opposite of why they were recruited, to say nothing of their actual track record - what then are we actually watching them do? As it is, a lot of the historical elements this season have just been backdrops to the actual season long plot, and served no real purpose; and this episode we didn't even see their mission, it was just some ambiguous sight gag and excuse to dress most of the cast in exaggerated disco outfits. Beyond that, there's no substance to what these characters are doing, since their current mission objective is a zero sum game; make as little impact on the world as possible. Sam Beckett leaped from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong; and one of the longest running sci-fi shows is about an alien doctor flying around time and space in a police call box with a screwdriver, wearing both hearts on his/her sleeve - and these guys want to leave people exactly how they found, or as close to it as possible.
Of course now Sara figures her loophole to help Zari is that Zari's present is her future, so it doesn't count; never mind that as far as the ship they're on is concerned, they're all the ancient past....
And how does any of that diatribe tie back to the episode in question? Because just the like the running theme of the show itself, when all was said and done, little of anything of consequence had actually happened, because it was all a simulation. Sure, the non-bald curmudgeon of the group learned the real meaning of Christmas and team work, and apparently Matrixed her way into learning how to play the violin in the course what had to have been significantly less time in the real world than what she experienced. And the only take away for the audience is that Gideon is as much of a jerk as almost anyone else on board...
The time-loop/Groundhog Day premise is a fairly tried and true premise for many shows, particularly those with a sci-fi bent. I'm ambivalent about this one, there were parts I thought were decent, but other parts were a little too hokey, yet par for Legends of Tomorrow.
I like the idea that Mick is writing a half-way decent romance novel; and while a bit over the top, I did laugh at Zari using cue cards during Mick and Ray's discussion in the laundry room.
The ending was almost good; I think if Zari had actually sacrificed herself, and maybe been brought back later somehow, as part of the culmination of the overarching story, it could have made an otherwise lackluster episode more important. I figured the goo she got covered in at the beginning would come back to play somehow, but wasn't expecting them to go the "it was all a dream" route, and that the goo was toxic. Kind of seems like a design flaw to be so easily exposed; and I can't imagine what that stuff really was, but I felt bad for Tala Ashe when it got in her mouth. That stuff made her teeth glow....
I have some other thoughts on Gideon's role in everything, that I'm going to post in another thread.
On the whole, I don't think it cleared the bar set by the many other episodes of this format. They didn't seem to use the repetition to its fullest advantage, like other shows do.
The TNG episode, Cause and Effect, which Ray mentions, is a good one; which plays the entire episode straight, which is fine. It's a solid episode, there's no single character that has the outside perspective, but they all manage to slowly put the pieces of the puzzle together; plus it adds Kelsey Grammar to the ranks of Star Trek alumni.
I had I forgot about the Eureka episode, I Do Over, until looking up time loop episodes to refresh my memory; and I'm disappointed I had forgotten it, because that's another good episode. And that one actually doesn't pull any punches with it's ending.
I don't know how many people watch The Librarians, which often hovers around Legends quality level of writing, especially the last few seasons, but The Point of Salvation was their take on the time loop premise, with them actually finding themselves
in a video game
, with the character of Ezekiel - a thief with a large ego and short attention span - is the only one aware of each revolution of the story; which has a profound effect on him, as he watches his friends die again and again. Unfortunately they hit the rest button on him, and all that development was largely squandered.
My favorite might be the SG1 episode, Window of Opportunity. That one mixes humor and the more serious tones; and there's just so much that's great about it. From Jack snapping back to Daniel asking a question that he wasn't paying attention to the first time, always eating his fruit loops, to Teal'c's snap back point being a door slamming in his face; the two of them learning to juggle, hitting golf balls through the gate, and also them needing to learn and retain the translations, because nothing else makes it through the loop.
In the end it all comes down to the question of what the past means to us, and what it would mean to experience the same life over and over again if you can't make any meaningful impact on what you witness.
I think that last part really hits at the heart of something that bugs me about not only this episode of Legends, but arguably all of them. This year and last they're so concerned about protecting and fixing history - never mind that it was basically the exact opposite of why they were recruited, to say nothing of their actual track record - what then are we actually watching them do? As it is, a lot of the historical elements this season have just been backdrops to the actual season long plot, and served no real purpose; and this episode we didn't even see their mission, it was just some ambiguous sight gag and excuse to dress most of the cast in exaggerated disco outfits. Beyond that, there's no substance to what these characters are doing, since their current mission objective is a zero sum game; make as little impact on the world as possible. Sam Beckett leaped from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong; and one of the longest running sci-fi shows is about an alien doctor flying around time and space in a police call box with a screwdriver, wearing both hearts on his/her sleeve - and these guys want to leave people exactly how they found, or as close to it as possible.
Of course now Sara figures her loophole to help Zari is that Zari's present is her future, so it doesn't count; never mind that as far as the ship they're on is concerned, they're all the ancient past....
And how does any of that diatribe tie back to the episode in question? Because just the like the running theme of the show itself, when all was said and done, little of anything of consequence had actually happened, because it was all a simulation. Sure, the non-bald curmudgeon of the group learned the real meaning of Christmas and team work, and apparently Matrixed her way into learning how to play the violin in the course what had to have been significantly less time in the real world than what she experienced. And the only take away for the audience is that Gideon is as much of a jerk as almost anyone else on board...
