misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
 
|
Post by misstique on Mar 11, 2017 6:49:26 GMT
Rocky has fought and defeated many fighters. Who according to you was the worst?
|
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 11, 2017 22:36:58 GMT
You mean in terms of skill? Or as a character?
Forgetting Thunderclaps because he wasn't a boxer then Tommy Gunn was the "worst" opponent that Rocky fought because he got his ass kicked by an old, out of training, brain damaged Rocky.
If you mean worse character then probably Thunderous because he was only on screen for a few minutes. He was entertaining for what part he was on but it wasn't exactly much.
|
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 12, 2017 0:13:16 GMT
Worst? By the way you word it, sounds like you mean skill level, but as the previous poster did, I'll do both skill and character.
I agree with him that Tommy Gun was easily the worst. If a brain damaged, aged and unprepared Rocky whipped him in a no holds barred street match while Tommy was supposedly in his prime. Wow. 'nuff said. Doesn't get any worse than that.
I don't take Thunderlips as seriously as others might. Clearly he was a lark and only in the film briefly, not even the main opponent. He was also a wrestler in a charity bout for fun and I think he was great entertainment. No problems there, very appropriate.
I think it's a toss up between the cartoonish one-dimensional Lang and the Creed carbon copy Mason Dixon. On paper Lang is the worst, but he was atleast original and his lack of background just made him all the more intimidating and loathsome. At the same time, he came across as a typical loud mouth black negative stereotype for Rocky to fight. A bit much when you think about it, but great fun and an affective villain anyway. He was like an evil Rocky.
I think Dixon is the worst just b/c he was nothing but an Apollo Creed knock off and while well written, Weathers portrayed the character greatly in 4 Rocky movies. This guy, a real fighter, gave just an ok performance IMO. Serviceable, but the movie teetered on reality tv like drama too much.
|
|
misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
|
Post by misstique on Mar 12, 2017 5:29:10 GMT
By "worst" I meant worst character. Whether it is because of bad acting or annoying portrayal, doesn't matter. But not "worst fighter". I wasn't referring to their skill levels. Just which opponent did you really hate?
|
|
misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
|
Post by misstique on Mar 12, 2017 5:37:29 GMT
I think Dixon is the worst just b/c he was nothing but an Apollo Creed knock off and while well written, Weathers portrayed the character greatly in 4 Rocky movies. This guy, a real fighter, gave just an ok performance IMO. Serviceable, but the movie teetered on reality tv like drama too much. Totally agree! And while most people are quick to criticize Tommy Morrison (who played Tommy Gunn), I feel he gave a far superior performance than Antonio Tarver. That guy can't act at all!!!! And those silly Bermuda shorts make him look even more ridiculous. I don't know why Sly was so adamant on casting a real boxer. Would have been much better to cast an actor. An actor can be taught to box convincingly, but most boxers can't act even if their life depended on it. I mean Weathers, Mr. T, Lundgren and even Sly himself are not boxers and they all did a great job. |
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 12, 2017 13:48:34 GMT
By "worst" I meant worst character. Whether it is because of bad acting or annoying portrayal, doesn't matter. But not "worst fighter". I wasn't referring to their skill levels. Just which opponent did you really hate? Ok, thanks for clarifying. I think when talking about the "worst" Rocky opponents you have to talk about all of them after Apollo. Take Drago for example: a great performance from Lungdren who basically played a James Bond villain like Jaws in that movie. Rocky 4 was practically a Captain America film. I love it, but I gotta put it in perspective compare to Apollo Creed. Night and day. Morrison actually gave a pretty good performance and was well written. Rocky 5 is a bit underrated I think. Morrison was not like able at all though. I think that was intentional b/c Rocky was the only one who liked him when everyone else saw something wrong. Kind of like a more complex Clubber Lang but without any charisma. |
|
camimac
Sophomore
@camimac
Posts: 915
Likes: 355
|
Post by camimac on Mar 12, 2017 13:53:14 GMT
Dolph Lundgren was not a very good actor. I think he was better known for being Grace Jones' boyfriend.
|
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 12, 2017 13:56:19 GMT
I think Dixon is the worst just b/c he was nothing but an Apollo Creed knock off and while well written, Weathers portrayed the character greatly in 4 Rocky movies. This guy, a real fighter, gave just an ok performance IMO. Serviceable, but the movie teetered on reality tv like drama too much. Totally agree! And while most people are quick to criticize Tommy Morrison (who played Tommy Gunn), I feel he gave a far superior performance than Antonio Tarver. That guy can't act at all!!!! And those silly Bermuda shorts make him look even more ridiculous. I don't know why Sly was so adamant on casting a real boxer. Would have been much better to cast an actor. An actor can be taught to box convincingly, but most boxers can't act even if their life depended on it. I mean Weathers, Mr. T, Lundgren and even Sly himself are not boxers and they all did a great job. He's been trying to get real life boxers since atleast Rocky 3. I remember reading a rumor that Joe Fraiser was originally considered for Apollo in the original, but I think that's a false rumor. He did test with some real fighters for the 3rd film and they could not be taught to pull their punches and overwhelmed Sly very quickly. He settled on Mr. T who was a club bouncer. Rocky 4 cast Lungdren who was apparently a kick boxer in Sweden. So i was well before Rocky 5. I think what I didn't like about Balboa was the reality tv angle. The series made references to real fighters since the beginning but also had a rich fictional world of it's own. In the 6th film it's seems like the approach is to actually treat Rocky as though he is completely in the real world. I love that movie, but I prefer the real world/fantasy mix of the original films and Tarver and the news footage just feel like reality tv as does the stuff with his son. |
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 12, 2017 14:01:13 GMT
Dolph Lundgren was not a very good actor. I think he was better known for being Grace Jones' boyfriend. It was a simplistic role and he was very affective IMO. He is not a great actor by any stretch and I doubt anyone considers him one. This, the Punisher and He-Man are probably his best performances and that says a lot about his ability. He gives more charisma in his modern roles IMO. |
|
misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
|
Post by misstique on Mar 13, 2017 16:46:51 GMT
I think what I didn't like about Balboa was the reality tv angle. The series made references to real fighters since the beginning but also had a rich fictional world of it's own. In the 6th film it's seems like the approach is to actually treat Rocky as though he is completely in the real world. I love that movie, but I prefer the real world/fantasy mix of the original films and Tarver and the news footage just feel like reality tv as does the stuff with his son. A very good point about the whole "Reality TV" approach. I enjoyed the movie in general, but the parts done in reality tv style also annoyed me as well. |
|
misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
|
Post by misstique on Mar 13, 2017 16:49:07 GMT
Dolph Lundgren was not a very good actor. I think he was better known for being Grace Jones' boyfriend. It was a simplistic role and he was very affective IMO. He is not a great actor by any stretch and I doubt anyone considers him one. This, the Punisher and He-Man are probably his best performances and that says a lot about his ability. He gives more charisma in his modern roles IMO. Exactly! Dolph is no Pacino or DeNiro, but he performed the role of Drago perfectly. The character was supposed to be a cold, heartless, emotionless, robot-like fighter, and Dolph nailed that! It's the same with Arnold as the first Terminator. No one complains why Arnold didn't display more expressions or emotions or spout Shakespeare! LOL!  |
|
|
|
Post by chalk2 on Mar 13, 2017 16:50:36 GMT
Tommy Gunn.
|
|
|
|
Post by jaystarstar on Mar 13, 2017 18:19:37 GMT
Lundgren and Mr. T have done passable acting jobs in other roles in movies and teevee.
Like somebody said, no DeNiro, etc etc, but DeNiro and Pacino haven't exactly been burning up the screen with monumental art lately either.
Drago was SUPPOSED to be pretty much robotic -- a Soviet Frankenstein monster on steroids. It's at the very end where he cracks, shows humanity, says, "I fight for me, I fight to win," when you see he's not a machine.
They're trying to figure out a plotline for the sequel to "Creed" -- maybe some kind of minor role for Lundgren as an older Drago, cast off and rejected in the wake of the fall of the Soviet Union, long since defected to the West, abandoned by his wife, burdened by guilt for killing Apollo, finally coming back to make amends by helping Adonis Creed.
Maybe the final scene could be Adonis, Rocky and Drago sitting down in Adrian's restaurant under a picture of Apollo Creed, after the big fight Drago helped Adonis win. Rocky says, "I'll buy you a Russian vodka."
"Nyet... nah," Drago says in his still heavily accented English. "I like the American beer now. You have the vodka."
And Rocky pours him a Budweiser. (Product placement, woohoo!)
|
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 13, 2017 19:42:55 GMT
Lundgren and Mr. T have done passable acting jobs in other roles in movies and teevee. Like somebody said, no DeNiro, etc etc, but DeNiro and Pacino haven't exactly been burning up the screen with monumental art lately either. Drago was SUPPOSED to be pretty much robotic -- a Soviet Frankenstein monster on steroids. It's at the very end where he cracks, shows humanity, says, "I fight for me, I fight to win," when you see he's not a machine. They're trying to figure out a plotline for the sequel to "Creed" -- maybe some kind of minor role for Lundgren as an older Drago, cast off and rejected in the wake of the fall of the Soviet Union, long since defected to the West, abandoned by his wife, burdened by guilt for killing Apollo, finally coming back to make amends by helping Adonis Creed. Maybe the final scene could be Adonis, Rocky and Drago sitting down in Adrian's restaurant under a picture of Apollo Creed, after the big fight Drago helped Adonis win. Rocky says, "I'll buy you a Russian vodka." "Nyet... nah," Drago says in his still heavily accented English. "I like the American beer now. You have the vodka." And Rocky pours him a Budweiser. (Product placement, woohoo!) Poor Drago, all that skill but destined to be the ultimate tool. |
|
|
|
Post by Times Up on Mar 13, 2017 19:51:47 GMT
It was a simplistic role and he was very affective IMO. He is not a great actor by any stretch and I doubt anyone considers him one. This, the Punisher and He-Man are probably his best performances and that says a lot about his ability. He gives more charisma in his modern roles IMO. Exactly! Dolph is no Pacino or DeNiro, but he performed the role of Drago perfectly. The character was supposed to be a cold, heartless, emotionless, robot-like fighter, and Dolph nailed that! It's the same with Arnold as the first Terminator. No one complains why Arnold didn't display more expressions or emotions or spout Shakespeare! LOL! Yes, Dolph was very good in this James Bond type sequel. The Terminator is a good comparison. Schwarzenegger's performance in that movie made me think he could have been a good Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 10:56:04 GMT
Apollo Creed was the best boxer Rocky EVER faced. In his prime, he was supposed to be a re-imagining of Muhammad Ali.
Rocky NEVER beat Apollo in points (a real way of measuring a winner in a Boxing match):
In "Rocky" (1976) he lost to Apollo. In that film Apollo was 'out of shape' didn't train seriously and Rocky trained his ass off. Rocky was doing some metahuman training and he still lost to an unfit Apollo who wasn't taking him seriously.
In "Rocky II" (1979) he beat Apollo by knock out. Apollo took this fight seriously, trained, and kicked Rocky's ASS in points. Go back and watch that "Rocky II" fight. Creed beats his ass in every round. It wasn't until the 11th round (I believe) that Rocky wins his first round. But because Rocky has a hard head, he won't go down. Apollo is tired, he's punched Rocky so many times going for the knock out he's exhausted. so when Rocky gets a good hard punch on his jaw in the last round he falls. His legs give out and he cannot stand. Rocky stands and wins by KO.
We find out in "Creed" (2015) that Rocky lost his 'rematch' fight with Apollo in "Rocky III" (1982)
Now, to answer your question, the worst boxer Rocky fights in terms of 'skill' was Tommy Gunn. In terms of 'badass film presence" then it's Mason the line Dixon (who was just a punk).
I rank them:
1. Apollo Creed
2. Ivan Drago
3. Clubber Lang
4. Mason the line Dixon
5. Tommy Gunn
Now, I love Ivan Drago as a villain more than anyone on the list. I was genuinely in fear for Rocky's life. As far as a film villain goes, Ivan Drago is the best. Clubber Lang was a great film villain too.
|
|
misstique
Sophomore
@misstique
Posts: 589
Likes: 367
|
Post by misstique on Mar 15, 2017 13:16:01 GMT
Now, I love Ivan Drago as a villain more than anyone on the list. I was genuinely in fear for Rocky's life. As far as a film villain goes, Ivan Drago is the best. Clubber Lang was a great film villain too. Drago's my favorite too! And as you were mentioning about Creed/Rocky points, I think if it came to counting points then Drago too probably had Rocky beaten on points. Clubber Lang as also an intimidating villain. And a great screen presence! Dixon was just a joke! |
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 1, 2017 2:27:32 GMT
Cancer. Hey-o.
I haven't seen Rocky V, but out of the rest, probably the guy from Rocky Balboa. Just unmemorable compared to guys like Apollo, Clubber Lang, and Drago.
|
|
|
|
Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 1, 2017 6:08:59 GMT
The IRS.
|
|
|
|
Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Jun 30, 2017 10:06:26 GMT
Mason Dixon
|
|
